Game 67: Pistons (18-48) @ Celtics (40-27) Mar. 11 7:30 PM EST

[bstein14]

Bagley with 20 and 11 on 9-15 shooting, BUT 4 turnovers and poor defense. Not sure if he was a positive overall or not. He was by far our best offensive player with a bunch of dunks and layups.

C'mon man, this is a stretch and you know it. Bagley played within himself, and played well.

Spend a few minutes rewatching the 42 made FGs by Boston. Bagley was getting scored on non stop... getting scored on inside and getting blown by after switching picks. Tatum, Brown, Horford, Willams, everyone gave him the business tonight. https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FGM&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022100997&PlayerID=0&RangeType=0&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612738&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

[bstein14]

Bagley with 20 and 11 on 9-15 shooting, BUT 4 turnovers and poor defense. Not sure if he was a positive overall or not. He was by far our best offensive player with a bunch of dunks and layups.

Not gonna lie, this kinda irks me; the ENTIRE team sucks at defense but people keep singling out Bagley. How was Grants defense tonight? What about Bey or CoJo? Did Olynyk do any better when he came in?

I'm not disagreeing that his defense was lackluster, but I'm tired of people constantly singling him out. He's not even playing his natural position due to injury.

We got absolutely dominated in the paint tonight... Boston actually stunk shooting from 3 at 6-32 which is the only reason we were actually in this game for 3 quarters.

Take a few minutes and rewatch Boston's 42 makes and you can see Bagley was constantly being scored on and targeted in picks/switches when he was in the game.

For the 33 minutes Bagley was in the game tonight, Boston shot 19-28 (68%) within 5 feet of the basket and 3 out of 4 (75%) from 5-9 feet. Those 33 minutes our interior defense was trash. Was it better when Olynyk was in? Not at all they were 11-15 within 5 ft of the basket during Kelly's minutes on the floor.

Best defenders on the night? When Bey was defending his opponent shot 2-11 (lots of missed 3s I'm sure). When Cory Joseph was defending his man shot 6 of 15 tonight.

[Pharaoh]

Bagley with 20 and 11 on 9-15 shooting, BUT 4 turnovers and poor defense. Not sure if he was a positive overall or not. He was by far our best offensive player with a bunch of dunks and layups.

Not gonna lie, this kinda irks me; the ENTIRE team sucks at defense but people keep singling out Bagley. How was Grants defense tonight? What about Bey or CoJo? Did Olynyk do any better when he came in?

I'm not disagreeing that his defense was lackluster, but I'm tired of people constantly singling him out. He's not even playing his natural position due to injury.

We got absolutely dominated in the paint tonight... Boston actually stunk shooting from 3 at 6-32 which is the only reason we were actually in this game for 3 quarters.

Take a few minutes and rewatch Boston's 42 makes and you can see Bagley was constantly being scored on and targeted in picks/switches when he was in the game.

For the 33 minutes Bagley was in the game tonight, Boston shot 19-28 (68%) within 5 feet of the basket and 3 out of 4 (75%) from 5-9 feet. Those 33 minutes our interior defense was trash. Was it better when Olynyk was in? Not at all they were 11-15 within 5 ft of the basket during Kelly's minutes on the floor.

Best defenders on the night? When Bey was defending his opponent shot 2-11 (lots of missed 3s I'm sure). When Cory Joseph was defending his man shot 6 of 15 tonight.

Again suggests interior D is a significant issue, not just a Bags issue.

But whatever, we all know the issues with this team already.

Find it funny that so many expected a better season, like Cade would cure all just by himself

How y'all feel now?

Obviously we're many moves away from elevating. As some of us have consistently pointed out.

It boggles my mind

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[zeebneeb]

Not gonna lie, this kinda irks me; the ENTIRE team sucks at defense but people keep singling out Bagley. How was Grants defense tonight? What about Bey or CoJo? Did Olynyk do any better when he came in?

I'm not disagreeing that his defense was lackluster, but I'm tired of people constantly singling him out. He's not even playing his natural position due to injury.

We got absolutely dominated in the paint tonight... Boston actually stunk shooting from 3 at 6-32 which is the only reason we were actually in this game for 3 quarters.

Take a few minutes and rewatch Boston's 42 makes and you can see Bagley was constantly being scored on and targeted in picks/switches when he was in the game.

For the 33 minutes Bagley was in the game tonight, Boston shot 19-28 (68%) within 5 feet of the basket and 3 out of 4 (75%) from 5-9 feet. Those 33 minutes our interior defense was trash. Was it better when Olynyk was in? Not at all they were 11-15 within 5 ft of the basket during Kelly's minutes on the floor.

Best defenders on the night? When Bey was defending his opponent shot 2-11 (lots of missed 3s I'm sure). When Cory Joseph was defending his man shot 6 of 15 tonight.

Again suggests interior D is a significant issue, not just a Bags issue.

But whatever, we all know the issues with this team already.

Find it funny that so many expected a better season, like Cade would cure all just by himself

How y'all feel now?

Obviously we're many moves away from elevating. As some of us have consistently pointed out.

It boggles my mind

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM Forums mobile app

Odd flex. Almost like you don't like hope, or just getting better.

I feel just fine, and still feel with a better coach, the teams record would be better.

Good job being consistent I guess?

[Cowology]

Bagley with 20 and 11 on 9-15 shooting, BUT 4 turnovers and poor defense. Not sure if he was a positive overall or not. He was by far our best offensive player with a bunch of dunks and layups.

Not gonna lie, this kinda irks me; the ENTIRE team sucks at defense but people keep singling out Bagley. How was Grants defense tonight? What about Bey or CoJo? Did Olynyk do any better when he came in?

I'm not disagreeing that his defense was lackluster, but I'm tired of people constantly singling him out. He's not even playing his natural position due to injury.

We got absolutely dominated in the paint tonight... Boston actually stunk shooting from 3 at 6-32 which is the only reason we were actually in this game for 3 quarters.

Take a few minutes and rewatch Boston's 42 makes and you can see Bagley was constantly being scored on and targeted in picks/switches when he was in the game.

For the 33 minutes Bagley was in the game tonight, Boston shot 19-28 (68%) within 5 feet of the basket and 3 out of 4 (75%) from 5-9 feet. Those 33 minutes our interior defense was trash. Was it better when Olynyk was in? Not at all they were 11-15 within 5 ft of the basket during Kelly's minutes on the floor.

Best defenders on the night? When Bey was defending his opponent shot 2-11 (lots of missed 3s I'm sure). When Cory Joseph was defending his man shot 6 of 15 tonight.

Numbers don't lie, but people lie with numbers all the time.

Our inability to keep people out of the paint goes FAR beyond Bagley, but if you can't see that I'm not sure how to help you at this point. It's confirmation bias. We haven't been able to stop dribble penetration all year. It's a team problem, not just a Bagley problem.

[Pharaoh]

We got absolutely dominated in the paint tonight... Boston actually stunk shooting from 3 at 6-32 which is the only reason we were actually in this game for 3 quarters.

Take a few minutes and rewatch Boston's 42 makes and you can see Bagley was constantly being scored on and targeted in picks/switches when he was in the game.

For the 33 minutes Bagley was in the game tonight, Boston shot 19-28 (68%) within 5 feet of the basket and 3 out of 4 (75%) from 5-9 feet. Those 33 minutes our interior defense was trash. Was it better when Olynyk was in? Not at all they were 11-15 within 5 ft of the basket during Kelly's minutes on the floor.

Best defenders on the night? When Bey was defending his opponent shot 2-11 (lots of missed 3s I'm sure). When Cory Joseph was defending his man shot 6 of 15 tonight.

Again suggests interior D is a significant issue, not just a Bags issue.

But whatever, we all know the issues with this team already.

Find it funny that so many expected a better season, like Cade would cure all just by himself

How y'all feel now?

Obviously we're many moves away from elevating. As some of us have consistently pointed out.

It boggles my mind

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM Forums mobile app

Odd flex. Almost like you don't like hope, or just getting better.

I feel just fine, and still feel with a better coach, the teams record would be better.

Good job being consistent I guess?

Odd flex?

Stated the same thing since Weaver was hired bro but y'all up and down based on whatever appears to be reality at the time.

Reality hasn't changed - perception of it has

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[tmorgan]

It’s not just confirmation bias, Cow. Bags is visually a stupid defender. Yes, we struggle with all aspects of defense, as a team of youngsters and with mostly weak defense vets, but that doesn’t change the issue that Bagley’s defensive footwork and instincts are absolutely terrible.

Kid is a bucket and a quick jumper for boards. But he is doing the same thing he did in Sacramento. Play him 25-30 minutes and he’s almost assuredly going to get you 15 and 10 and maybe more. But he gives up a ton, too, by not reacting in time and being in wrong place.

You have to hope, if the plan is to keep him around, he can be coached up. Right now, though, I find myself watching him on defense and yelling at him not to be so stupid. Stewart is younger than Bagley and has waaaaaay better instincts, but doesn’t have Marvin’s leaping ability and length on offense. It can be quite frustrating watching either of them, but at least Stew knows wtf he’s trying to do.

[vege]

It’s not just confirmation bias, Cow. Bags is visually a stupid defender. Yes, we struggle with all aspects of defense, as a team of youngsters and with mostly weak defense vets, but that doesn’t change the issue that Bagley’s defensive footwork and instincts are absolutely terrible.

Kid is a bucket and a quick jumper for boards. But he is doing the same thing he did in Sacramento. Play him 25-30 minutes and he’s almost assuredly going to get you 15 and 10 and maybe more. But he gives up a ton, too, by not reacting in time and being in wrong place.

You have to hope, if the plan is to keep him around, he can be coached up. Right now, though, I find myself watching him on defense and yelling at him not to be so stupid. Stewart is younger than Bagley and has waaaaaay better instincts, but doesn’t have Marvin’s leaping ability and length on offense. It can be quite frustrating watching either of them, but at least Stew knows wtf he’s trying to do.

Stewart have been coached by Casey who's a good coach and good at developing young players and been helped by Ben Wallace.

I agree 110% with everything you said about Bagley on defense, he is always lost and 2 steps behind the play, it's annoying to pay attention to him on defense. Let's hope Casey and Big Ben can do some magic with the kid.

[vic]

Bagley is a 2nd string big because he's not good defensively. It just is what it is. Hes a great scorer and rebounder but doesn't have the defensive awareness to be a starter.

When Bagley is coming off the bench and is used correctly, your team has a chance to be really good. When he is starting, you will bleed extra points. Hes like the big version of a microwave guard... like a modern Corliss Williamson.

Stewart is missed, Killian is missed.

Good loss for the draft pick.

Bright future for the Pistons.

[bstein14]

Part of the reason interior defense has been bad all season has been the fact that we've played super small all season. You'd expect with adding a big in the lineup we'd be better.

On the season we're 23rd in the NBA in points in the paint given up at 49.3 PPG. A lot of that was with our 2nd unit being Trey Lyles at center and Josh Jackson or Diallo at PF.

Over the last 3 games we're giving up 59 points in the paint with it being 68 points given up last night.



For me, watching Bagley play he almost feels the opposite of Hayes to a degree. He's great on offense but he's likely one of the worst players in the league on defense at his position.... especially one of the worst players playing 20+ MPG if you isolate out all the young guys trying to learn the NBA playing in garbage time not part of regular rotations.

The good thing for Bagley is, if our bench looks like this next year he'll be surround by 4 guys I think will all be solid defenders and he'll be able to be the offensive focal point in the 2nd unit.

Hayes / Diallo / Livers (TBD) / Bagley / Stewart

Ideally we roll with Cade/Bey/Grant starters and a good FA and top 5 pick get added to the starting lineup.

Of course we've barely had any time with Bagley so he could end up being much improved defensively with more effort, learning, coaching, etc.

[flow]

I missed the game. Was Bagley playing defense like he did here?

https://youtu.be/giwY-5UOubk?t=114

.

[FloridaMan78]

Bagley is a 2nd string big because he's not good defensively. It just is what it is. Hes a great scorer and rebounder but doesn't have the defensive awareness to be a starter.

When Bagley is coming off the bench and is used correctly, your team has a chance to be really good. When he is starting, you will bleed extra points. Hes like the big version of a microwave guard... like a modern Corliss Williamson.

Stewart is missed, Killian is missed.

Good loss for the draft pick.

Bright future for the Pistons.

This is exactly how I see it. Hard to hide his defense when he starts. Teams game plan for it. 20-25 mins off the bench with Stewart next to him barking at him would be perfect IMO.

[Snakebites]

Yeah, our good play notwithstanding, there will still be games like this.

Our lotto position will still be solid. Probably not like it was last year, but I’d rather see the young guys show progress even if it means losing a few lottery balls.

[mattao313]

Bagley on switches on perimeter players he stands really far back pretty much giving up a open 3.

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[Piston Pete]

Gonna say it again. If we renounce Bagley, we should go after Jalen Smith in his place.

Smith is more versatile offensively and better defensively- and younger.

[Cowology]

Bagley on switches on perimeter players he stands really far back pretty much giving up a open 3.

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What would you like him to do? Play tight so he get's taken off the dribble with nobody behind him? Against a team that wasn't shooting well from 3, but was getting in the paint whenever they wanted?

We're playing without Hayes, Diallo & Stewart. We're asking Bagley to play out of position, without the benefit of a training camp. We switch literally everything, have zero help defense and can't rotate to save our lives. We've also gone up against some of the hottest scorers in the league in DeRozan & Tatum, both of whom are deadly in the mid-range game and in the paint. But yeah, let's blame it all on Bagley.

I'm not saying his defense is great. I'm not even saying it's good. What I am saying, is that singling him out when CLEARLY there are a plethora of issues contributing to our inability to defend the paint is rubbish.

You take away your defensive C and some of your best perimeter defenders OF COURSE your interior D will suffer. Posting stats showing how many points we gave up in the paint isn't needed. What is needed is context.

[mattao313]

Bagley on switches on perimeter players he stands really far back pretty much giving up a open 3.

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What would you like him to do? Play tight so he get's taken off the dribble with nobody behind him? Against a team that wasn't shooting well from 3, but was getting in the paint whenever they wanted?

We're playing without Hayes, Diallo & Stewart. We're asking Bagley to play out of position, without the benefit of a training camp. We switch literally everything, have zero help defense and can't rotate to save our lives. We've also gone up against some of the hottest scorers in the league in DeRozan & Tatum, both of whom are deadly in the mid-range game and in the paint. But yeah, let's blame it all on Bagley.

I'm not saying his defense is great. I'm not even saying it's good. What I am saying, is that singling him out when CLEARLY there are a plethora of issues contributing to our inability to defend the paint is rubbish.

You take away your defensive C and some of your best perimeter defenders OF COURSE your interior D will suffer. Posting stats showing how many points we gave up in the paint isn't needed. What is needed is context.

If you're going to switch get up on your man. Giving good 3pt shooter a open shot is bad. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Stewart does this and he's a much worse athlete than Bagley. Stewart does a decent job of staying in front of the switch.

I'm not singling him out as I also call out guys like Cade and Killian who I think are overrated or plain not good on defense. But imo Bagley is a tweener but can't shoot and isn't good on defense which is very important for the C position. At the end of the day. I don't think Stewart or Bagley should be starting C's. They are both backups and do we really need both?

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[Cowology]

Bagley on switches on perimeter players he stands really far back pretty much giving up a open 3.

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What would you like him to do? Play tight so he get's taken off the dribble with nobody behind him? Against a team that wasn't shooting well from 3, but was getting in the paint whenever they wanted?

We're playing without Hayes, Diallo & Stewart. We're asking Bagley to play out of position, without the benefit of a training camp. We switch literally everything, have zero help defense and can't rotate to save our lives. We've also gone up against some of the hottest scorers in the league in DeRozan & Tatum, both of whom are deadly in the mid-range game and in the paint. But yeah, let's blame it all on Bagley.

I'm not saying his defense is great. I'm not even saying it's good. What I am saying, is that singling him out when CLEARLY there are a plethora of issues contributing to our inability to defend the paint is rubbish.

You take away your defensive C and some of your best perimeter defenders OF COURSE your interior D will suffer. Posting stats showing how many points we gave up in the paint isn't needed. What is needed is context.

If you're going to switch get up on your man. Giving good 3pt shooter a open shot is bad. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Stewart does this and he's a much worse athlete than Bagley. Stewart does a decent job of staying in front of the switch.

I'm not singling him out as I also call out guys like Cade and Killian who I think are overrated or plain not good on defense. But imo Bagley is a tweener but can't shoot and isn't good on defense which is very important for the C position. At the end of the day. I don't think Stewart or Bagley should be starting C's. They are both backups and do we really need both?

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I have said repeatedly I believe Bagley is a backup PF. He's not a C. Which is a large part of why it irritates me so much that people keep blasting him for his failures as a starting C.

[FloridaMan78]

What would you like him to do? Play tight so he get's taken off the dribble with nobody behind him? Against a team that wasn't shooting well from 3, but was getting in the paint whenever they wanted?

We're playing without Hayes, Diallo & Stewart. We're asking Bagley to play out of position, without the benefit of a training camp. We switch literally everything, have zero help defense and can't rotate to save our lives. We've also gone up against some of the hottest scorers in the league in DeRozan & Tatum, both of whom are deadly in the mid-range game and in the paint. But yeah, let's blame it all on Bagley.

I'm not saying his defense is great. I'm not even saying it's good. What I am saying, is that singling him out when CLEARLY there are a plethora of issues contributing to our inability to defend the paint is rubbish.

You take away your defensive C and some of your best perimeter defenders OF COURSE your interior D will suffer. Posting stats showing how many points we gave up in the paint isn't needed. What is needed is context.

If you're going to switch get up on your man. Giving good 3pt shooter a open shot is bad. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Stewart does this and he's a much worse athlete than Bagley. Stewart does a decent job of staying in front of the switch.

I'm not singling him out as I also call out guys like Cade and Killian who I think are overrated or plain not good on defense. But imo Bagley is a tweener but can't shoot and isn't good on defense which is very important for the C position. At the end of the day. I don't think Stewart or Bagley should be starting C's. They are both backups and do we really need both?

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I have said repeatedly I believe Bagley is a backup PF. He's not a C. Which is a large part of why it irritates me so much that people keep blasting him for his failures as a starting C.

I don’t think people are disagreeing with you, actually we’re right there with you. We disagree with people that say he’s a starting center.

[MotownMadness]

Smart knows how good Cade is gonna be

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they are also both from texas and both went to oklahoma state so they might know each other too, but still cool to see.

Yeah i didn't even put that altogether but you're right.