Backcourt mate for Cade

[aad]

I feel this should be our main focus in the offseason Cade needs a running backcourt mate killian can’t score or shoot so he’s a backup at this point

Here is some options in the draft or free agency
Jaden Ivey
Jalen Brunson
Colin sexton

Other then that I don’t see anyone else that we can get but I will be happy with one of them

[ComboGuardCity]

1. Mathurin - gamble
2. Sharpe - gamble but my preference
3. Lavine - Bulls look ripe for an early round exit in the playoffs. We should offer him the max

[Cowology]

I agree this is our #1 priority. That said, IF things don't fall the way we want it is OK to wait 1 more year and try again in 2023. I'd rather be patient and try again rather than settle for some 3rd tier player that doesn't really move the needle.

Jaden Ivey -- The draft will be the first big piece to fall, so how that shakes out will likely determine our FA priorities.

Jalen Brunson -- I like him because I feel getting a secondary ball-handler on the floor should be a priority. We need to take some pressure off Cade and having another guy who can initiate the offense is critical.

Colin Sexton -- Can obviously ball, but his injury history is a concern. Not just this season, but he's missed 20+ each of the prior 2 seasons as well. I have no clue what type of contract he'll be looking at.

Other names to watch for;

Malik Monk -- I am personally not a huge believer, but some fans are onboard and if nothing else he's sure to be available since the Lakers are unable to exceed his $2.15 non-Bird Rights.

Zach LaVine -- This is my personal dream scenario. The Bulls are in a tight spot financially having already tied up $70 mil in Ball/DeRozan/Vucevic. And Zach might need surgery on his knee. That said, most people still consider this a pipe dream and CHI could come at him with a SuperMax that would surely lock him up.

[reanimator]

Id' rank it:

Ivey
Brunson
Sharpe (depends on feedback from workouts)
Paolo (not a guard positionally but functionally onball fills the same need)
Mathurin
Malaki Branham

no on monk or sexton
lavine pipe dream and doesn't fit age timeline z

[Cowology]

Id' rank it:

Ivey
Brunson
Sharpe (depends on feedback from workouts)
Paolo (not a guard positionally but functionally onball fills the same need)
Mathurin
Malaki Branham

no on monk or sexton
lavine pipe dream and doesn't fit age timeline z

LaVine is 27. What the heck you mean his age doesn't fit?? We aren't handing out 7 year contracts here. We aren't going on a 10 year window. It's a 4 year deal that runs concurrent with his prime.

[vic]

This is why after Chet and Jabari,

Sharpe
Ivey
Mathurin are 3-5 on my board.

I'd be cool with picking up one of Sharpe/Ivey/Mathurin as a pick, then keeping Grant and signing Mitchell Robinson as a shot blocking big. That's a solid squad.

I don't have any desire for SG free agents other than Simons.

Malaki Branham and Jaden Hardy are also options if the first pick is a PF, and they trade Grant for another 1st rounder.

[Cowology]

Simons isn't going anywhere. POR moved CJ in order to open up that spot for him. He's their future.

[reanimator]

Id' rank it:

Ivey
Brunson
Sharpe (depends on feedback from workouts)
Paolo (not a guard positionally but functionally onball fills the same need)
Mathurin
Malaki Branham

no on monk or sexton
lavine pipe dream and doesn't fit age timeline z

LaVine is 27. What the heck you mean his age doesn't fit?? We aren't handing out 7 year contracts here. We aren't going on a 10 year window. It's a 4 year deal that runs concurrent with his prime.

He wants to win now and Cade as good as he is for a youngster won't be at that level for a few years.

[Manocad]

I really don't see a "main focus" relative to this offseason, i.e. "must happen before the start of next season." Between this draft and offseason and next year's draft and offseason, you have to believe the team will have pushed all in at that point. So that's a draft and an off season followed by a full season to evaluate then one more draft and offseason to finish the whole thing off, hopefully. Point being, that all should be taken into concerted consideration IMO. I don't look at it like "Must get a guard next to Cade first, Ivey is the best guard in the draft which happens first, take him, then figure out the next move."

The team primarily needs another dependable scorer next to Cade and defensive/rebounding help in the paint. I don't think there's anyone here who would disagree with that; the order the needs are filled is less important to me than ensuring that all the needs are met such that the value of the players obtained is maximized.

[mattao313]

I'm starting to really like Ivey, I still question the fit with Cade but I'd be really happy to get him. Brunson is good at 20mil I'd be cool with him but I'd like to trade grant to use his space for him so we can still get a C.

Guys like Simons and sexton are meh to me I'd have interested but I don't want to back the brinks truck up. Simons is probably looking for a payday so I wouldn't even try there but if sexton can be had at around 17mil/yr I'd think about it.

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[Cowology]

Id' rank it:

Ivey
Brunson
Sharpe (depends on feedback from workouts)
Paolo (not a guard positionally but functionally onball fills the same need)
Mathurin
Malaki Branham

no on monk or sexton
lavine pipe dream and doesn't fit age timeline z

LaVine is 27. What the heck you mean his age doesn't fit?? We aren't handing out 7 year contracts here. We aren't going on a 10 year window. It's a 4 year deal that runs concurrent with his prime.

He wants to win now and Cade as good as he is for a youngster won't be at that level for a few years.

He'll also want to get paid and I think you could make a reasonable argument that the Bulls are no better positioned to accomplish either of those 2 things. If you want to talk about age then Vucevic is 31 and DeRozan 32. IF they max LaVine that precludes the possibility of them making any other significant roster moves to improve what is at best a 2nd round team that will be headed the wrong direction.

I'd argue LaVine is a BETTER fit for our timeline than Chicago's since we're actually trending upwards, while they have likely already peaked. Again, I get it's a longshot and that Chicago could potentially lock him up with a supermax (regardless of whether that's wise or not is debatable) but the whole age/timeline thing doesn't work against us in this scenario. It works for us.

[mattao313]

LaVine is 27. What the heck you mean his age doesn't fit?? We aren't handing out 7 year contracts here. We aren't going on a 10 year window. It's a 4 year deal that runs concurrent with his prime.

He wants to win now and Cade as good as he is for a youngster won't be at that level for a few years.

He'll also want to get paid and I think you could make a reasonable argument that the Bulls are no better positioned to accomplish either of those 2 things. If you want to talk about age then Vucevic is 31 and DeRozan 32. IF they max LaVine that precludes the possibility of them making any other significant roster moves to improve what is at best a 2nd round team that will be headed the wrong direction.

I'd argue LaVine is a BETTER fit for our timeline than Chicago's since we're actually trending upwards, while they have likely already peaked. Again, I get it's a longshot and that Chicago could potentially lock him up with a supermax (regardless of whether that's wise or not is debatable) but the whole age/timeline thing doesn't work against us in this scenario. It works for us.

If lavine wants to win Detroit wouldn't be a team I'd be interested in if I was him. I think other teams would be willing to trade for him in a sign and trade with Chicago.

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[Cowology]

He wants to win now and Cade as good as he is for a youngster won't be at that level for a few years.

He'll also want to get paid and I think you could make a reasonable argument that the Bulls are no better positioned to accomplish either of those 2 things. If you want to talk about age then Vucevic is 31 and DeRozan 32. IF they max LaVine that precludes the possibility of them making any other significant roster moves to improve what is at best a 2nd round team that will be headed the wrong direction.

I'd argue LaVine is a BETTER fit for our timeline than Chicago's since we're actually trending upwards, while they have likely already peaked. Again, I get it's a longshot and that Chicago could potentially lock him up with a supermax (regardless of whether that's wise or not is debatable) but the whole age/timeline thing doesn't work against us in this scenario. It works for us.

If lavine wants to win Detroit wouldn't be a team I'd be interested in if I was him. I think other teams would be willing to trade for him in a sign and trade with Chicago.

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Like who?

[Piston Pete]

Realistically, we should be looking to find him a running mate via the draft.


LaVine would be great, but the chances of him coming here seem slim-at-best.

Brunson is decent. But do we really want to spend big bucks on decent?

Monk is nice, but is he a guy that can alleviate enough of the offensive workload off Cade’s shoulders?


Draft:
Ivey
Sharpe
Mathurin
Murray?

I really think Shapre is the guy that would fit best next to Cade. Then Mathurin….


Draft one of those guys, and then get a big or two in free agency.

[mattao313]

He'll also want to get paid and I think you could make a reasonable argument that the Bulls are no better positioned to accomplish either of those 2 things. If you want to talk about age then Vucevic is 31 and DeRozan 32. IF they max LaVine that precludes the possibility of them making any other significant roster moves to improve what is at best a 2nd round team that will be headed the wrong direction.

I'd argue LaVine is a BETTER fit for our timeline than Chicago's since we're actually trending upwards, while they have likely already peaked. Again, I get it's a longshot and that Chicago could potentially lock him up with a supermax (regardless of whether that's wise or not is debatable) but the whole age/timeline thing doesn't work against us in this scenario. It works for us.

If lavine wants to win Detroit wouldn't be a team I'd be interested in if I was him. I think other teams would be willing to trade for him in a sign and trade with Chicago.

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Like who?

Just off the top of my head Miami they are interested in beal I know they will be in Lavine to. Lavine is a boarder line superstar tho most teams will be lined up to get him.

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[Cowology]

If lavine wants to win Detroit wouldn't be a team I'd be interested in if I was him. I think other teams would be willing to trade for him in a sign and trade with Chicago.

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Like who?

Just off the top of my head Miami they are interested in beal I know they will be in Lavine to. Lavine is a boarder line superstar tho most teams will be lined up to get him.

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What are they giving up that CHI wants? Keep in mind, a S&T means CHI has already decided they don't want to pay LaVine a max contract. So where is the deal? Again, Miami is a team that already has over $75 mil tied up in 3 players (Butler/Adebayo/Lowry). And they have Robinson locked up for another $15 mil on top of that.

You are talking about some abstract concepts here as if anybody could just throw a package together, when it doesn't work that way. You need to be able to make this work for both teams from both a salary and value standpoint. These nebulous deals you are suggesting aren't functional.

[mattao313]

Like who?

Just off the top of my head Miami they are interested in beal I know they will be in Lavine to. Lavine is a boarder line superstar tho most teams will be lined up to get him.

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What are they giving up that CHI wants? Keep in mind, a S&T means CHI has already decided they don't want to pay LaVine a max contract. So where is the deal? Again, Miami is a team that already has over $75 mil tied up in 3 players (Butler/Adebayo/Lowry). And they have Robinson locked up for another $15 mil on top of that.

You are talking about some abstract concepts here as if anybody could just throw a package together, when it doesn't work that way. You need to be able to make this work for both teams from both a salary and value standpoint. These nebulous deals you are suggesting aren't functional.

No it doesn't he may just want to leave Chicago. Chicago can't force him to take money. Miami can send salary and pick so Chicago doesn't lose him for nothing. Same with any other team.

Teams will be doing anything they can to get lavine if he even thinks about leaving Chicago. If he's trying to win why go to a bottom 5 team? It doesn't make sense.

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[Cowology]

Just off the top of my head Miami they are interested in beal I know they will be in Lavine to. Lavine is a boarder line superstar tho most teams will be lined up to get him.

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What are they giving up that CHI wants? Keep in mind, a S&T means CHI has already decided they don't want to pay LaVine a max contract. So where is the deal? Again, Miami is a team that already has over $75 mil tied up in 3 players (Butler/Adebayo/Lowry). And they have Robinson locked up for another $15 mil on top of that.

You are talking about some abstract concepts here as if anybody could just throw a package together, when it doesn't work that way. You need to be able to make this work for both teams from both a salary and value standpoint. These nebulous deals you are suggesting aren't functional.

No it doesn't he may just want to leave Chicago. Chicago can't force him to take money. Miami can send salary and pick so Chicago doesn't lose him for nothing. Same with any other team.

Teams will be doing anything they can to get lavine if he even thinks about leaving Chicago. If he's trying to win why go to a bottom 5 team? It doesn't make sense.

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If we signed LaVine and got to keep our pick we wouldn't be a bottom 5 team. In fact there'd be a decent chance we'd surpass CHI as early as next season and would certainly have a brighter future, as I've already outlined based on the age argument that *you* presented.

And again, I'd challenge you to present a S&T with MIA (or whomever) that works for all parties. Why should CHI take back salary when the whole reason for not keeping LaVine would presumably be cap implications? That's completely illogical. They'd be MORE likely to deal with a team like Detroit that could absorb salary AND offer back picks/prospects.

[mattao313]

What are they giving up that CHI wants? Keep in mind, a S&T means CHI has already decided they don't want to pay LaVine a max contract. So where is the deal? Again, Miami is a team that already has over $75 mil tied up in 3 players (Butler/Adebayo/Lowry). And they have Robinson locked up for another $15 mil on top of that.

You are talking about some abstract concepts here as if anybody could just throw a package together, when it doesn't work that way. You need to be able to make this work for both teams from both a salary and value standpoint. These nebulous deals you are suggesting aren't functional.

No it doesn't he may just want to leave Chicago. Chicago can't force him to take money. Miami can send salary and pick so Chicago doesn't lose him for nothing. Same with any other team.

Teams will be doing anything they can to get lavine if he even thinks about leaving Chicago. If he's trying to win why go to a bottom 5 team? It doesn't make sense.

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If we signed LaVine and got to keep our pick we wouldn't be a bottom 5 team. In fact there'd be a decent chance we'd surpass CHI as early as next season and would certainly have a brighter future, as I've already outlined based on the age argument that *you* presented.

And again, I'd challenge you to present a S&T with MIA (or whomever) that works for all parties. Why should CHI take back salary when the whole reason for not keeping LaVine would presumably be cap implications? That's completely illogical. They'd be MORE likely to deal with a team like Detroit that could absorb salary AND offer back picks/prospects.

So you expect lavine to bank him winning on if a draft pick pans out in 2 or 3 year and Cade turning into a star when he could just go to a good team to begin with?

I just gave you an example Chicago would rather get something than losing him for nothing.

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[Cowology]

No it doesn't he may just want to leave Chicago. Chicago can't force him to take money. Miami can send salary and pick so Chicago doesn't lose him for nothing. Same with any other team.

Teams will be doing anything they can to get lavine if he even thinks about leaving Chicago. If he's trying to win why go to a bottom 5 team? It doesn't make sense.

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If we signed LaVine and got to keep our pick we wouldn't be a bottom 5 team. In fact there'd be a decent chance we'd surpass CHI as early as next season and would certainly have a brighter future, as I've already outlined based on the age argument that *you* presented.

And again, I'd challenge you to present a S&T with MIA (or whomever) that works for all parties. Why should CHI take back salary when the whole reason for not keeping LaVine would presumably be cap implications? That's completely illogical. They'd be MORE likely to deal with a team like Detroit that could absorb salary AND offer back picks/prospects.

So you expect lavine to bank him winning on if a draft pick pans out in 2 or 3 year and Cade turning into a star when he could just go to a good team to begin with?

I just gave you an example Chicago would rather get something than losing him for nothing.

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You haven't presented an example of anything. You named a team without explaining what assets would be involved or why it would work for either team.

I'm sure CHI would rather get something for LaVine then lose him for nothing, but if the salary cap & luxury tax are the prohibitive qualifiers that prevent them maxing LaVine then you need to present a reasonable alternative that incentivizes a S&T without running into the exact same problem.

I don't know how else to explain this. If money wasn't an issue they would just resign him (and they might). If we're exploring the possibility of a S&T then we are assuming the luxary tax is in play. That's the foundation for assuming a S&T. Therefor taking back a lot of salary doesn't make sense in this scenario, regardless of "wants" and Miami is NOT in a position to absorb salary.