Revisiting the Bey - Kennard Trade

[mattao313]

Nah people just gotta find negatives all the time.

Bringing up Kennard cause he's finally doing something shows the mentality.

Nitpicking 4 2nds endlessly shows the mentality.

It's the same old song from some on here

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Kennard has all ways been good. He's not 'finally doing something.'

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[mattao313]

Isn't Livers just a better bench option than Kennard @ $14 mil? He's not quite as good a shooter, but he's still around 40% and gives you MUCH better defense/toughness/rebounding.

Sure but kennard is a MUCH better shooter he's actually leading the league in % right now that's pretty impressive

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No doubt. GREAT shooter.

PPG 11.6
PER 12.9
VORP 1.1
DRTG 113.9
RPM -3.13

$13,745,455
$14,763,636
$14,763,636

100% acknowledge Kennard is fantastic at what he does. Great role player. He's got a specific skillset and he's as good as anyone at that skill.

For the sake of comparison Luke shot 41.5% his rookie year, which is also quite impressive. Certainly better than Livers 39.1%, but that's not too shabby either. And Livers costs $1,563,518 & $1,836,096 the next 2 seasons. In all fairness I do acknowledge it's a very small sample size for Livers, but he's been fairly consistent in how he's played each game. This isn't a guy who's been up & down or streaky. He plays like a seasoned vet every time he steps on the court. Even when he's not scoring he makes smart bball plays and contributes solid defense.

I stand by my statement; I'd MUCH rather have Livers @ $1.6 mil than pay Kennard $14 mil per season. I'm taking the more well rounded player at 1/9 the cost over the specialist who is a liability as a starter. And I'd say the same thing about other players as well; give me 39+% shooting and solid defense over a guy shooting 45% with no defense. Doesn't do any good if you just give it back at the other end. On a friendlier contract? Maybe I take the bench specialist. But @ $14 mil? No way. He's not worth that much money.

Meh it doesn't really matter anyway because they play different positions anyway they'd be nice together in the rotation. Me personally I always liked kennard he's not just a shooter either he can put it on the floor some and pass it.

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[Cowology]

Sure but kennard is a MUCH better shooter he's actually leading the league in % right now that's pretty impressive

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No doubt. GREAT shooter.

PPG 11.6
PER 12.9
VORP 1.1
DRTG 113.9
RPM -3.13

$13,745,455
$14,763,636
$14,763,636

100% acknowledge Kennard is fantastic at what he does. Great role player. He's got a specific skillset and he's as good as anyone at that skill.

For the sake of comparison Luke shot 41.5% his rookie year, which is also quite impressive. Certainly better than Livers 39.1%, but that's not too shabby either. And Livers costs $1,563,518 & $1,836,096 the next 2 seasons. In all fairness I do acknowledge it's a very small sample size for Livers, but he's been fairly consistent in how he's played each game. This isn't a guy who's been up & down or streaky. He plays like a seasoned vet every time he steps on the court. Even when he's not scoring he makes smart bball plays and contributes solid defense.

I stand by my statement; I'd MUCH rather have Livers @ $1.6 mil than pay Kennard $14 mil per season. I'm taking the more well rounded player at 1/9 the cost over the specialist who is a liability as a starter. And I'd say the same thing about other players as well; give me 39+% shooting and solid defense over a guy shooting 45% with no defense. Doesn't do any good if you just give it back at the other end. On a friendlier contract? Maybe I take the bench specialist. But @ $14 mil? No way. He's not worth that much money.

Meh it doesn't really matter anyway because they play different positions anyway they'd be nice together in the rotation. Me personally I always liked kennard he's not just a shooter either he can put it on the floor some and pass it.

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I'd rather give away a 5th 2nd rounder than pay Kennard $14 mil. But to each his own I guess.

[El Chivo]

People - me included - hate paying CoJo (+40% 3pt shooter) 5 mln per year and somehow regret not keeping Kennard at 14 x year. Ok.

[440BB]

It seems many have forgotten Kennard missed a lot of his last season here with knee tendinitis. His value at that time was affected by the question of whether he would be able to stay healthy enough to contribute. I doubted he'd be in the league for long myself.

Bey has missed two games in his career so far. Luke's a slightly overpaid backup SG that only got 11 starts when Paul George missed 43 games.

At this point, both teams took risks that have turned out pretty good. Kennard has stayed relatively healthy while Bey will be part of our young core for years to come. I like the Pistons result myself.

[mattao313]

People - me included - hate paying CoJo (+40% 3pt shooter) 5 mln per year and somehow regret not keeping Kennard at 14 x year. Ok.

Yes Corey Joseph shooting 40% on low volume is equivalent to a guy shooting 44% on high volume something this team could really use.

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[Kalamazoo317]

I would disagree that this team needs Kennard shooting at a high volume.

[Cowology]

People - me included - hate paying CoJo (+40% 3pt shooter) 5 mln per year and somehow regret not keeping Kennard at 14 x year. Ok.

Yes Corey Joseph shooting 40% on low volume is equivalent to a guy shooting 44% on high volume something this team could really use.

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High volume? He takes 9 shots per game. Joseph takes 6 shots per game. He's a great 3pt shooter (we all get that), but let's not pretend like he's something he's not. He's not Steph Curry. He's 53rd in the league in 3pt attempts per game. 132nd in total fga. Calling him high volume is hyperbolic.

And I think we ALL agree that we'd like a guy who can shoot 44%. Nobody is denying it. It's a question of whether a guy who does that, but is terrible at defense and has questionable knees is worth $14 mil. There is context to all of this. It's not 3pt shooting in a vacuum.

[edmunder_prc]

Its all about resource management and taking swings for talent.

Would you rather have KO or Kennard? Hard to say, neither really moves the needle. The team needs a big like KO in theory, but he is really gun shy taking 3s and thats what he is supposed to be good at. But he has been passing really well.

If we had Kennard probably wished he played better defense instead of hitting a bunch of 3s.

[Cowology]

Its all about resource management and taking swings for talent.

Would you rather have KO or Kennard? Hard to say, neither really moves the needle. The team needs a big like KO in theory, but he is really gun shy taking 3s and thats what he is supposed to be good at. But he has been passing really well.

If we had Kennard probably wished he played better defense instead of hitting a bunch of 3s.

I don't think many people were real happy we signed Olynyk to $12-13 mil per year either, but bigmen typically cost a little more than SG. Size does matter to an extent. Here are the per 36 numbers comparison for the entire year.

KO
17 ppg
8.5 rpg
5.2 apg

Kennard
15.4 ppg
4.3 rpg
2.7 apg

Keep in mind, he was terrible pre-all star while dealing with injures and that is averaged in here too. Pre-all star he was shooting 40/30 and now post all-star he's shooting 54/41, while averaging more rebs AND assists than Kennard in almost 10 fewer mpg. And we consider this guy overpaid.

[keepitrealhomes]

So drafting Luke Kennard over Donovan Mitchell was the right choice after all?

some people play chess, other people play candyland

[keepitrealhomes]

something tells me that if we really wanted Luke back, we could get him.

[Snakebites]

Yeah, it being a separate trade that also happened to involve the Nets is my recollection. We were wheeling and dealing that day. We also agreed to deal a future protected first for the pick that became Stewart that day as well (in a move that became lumped in with Christian Wood signing with the Rockets in name-only).

[Sort]

I admit I haven't watched Kennard play much this year, but his defense was atrocious to the point he was a desperation pivot in terms of just giving him minutes in the playoffs. You are not going to have that issue with Bey.

Bey just needs consistency in his shooting. Kennard needs new knees and an ability to play defense.

And those sudden moves Weaver made including a future first will start to look awful if the Pistons don't make a significant jump next year. I admit I'm terrified we land the sixth spot in the draft and blow our money on Mitchell Robinson and Brunson, two players I think will help us land back in the lottery and then be locked into long term contracts.

[theBigLip]

Solid rotation players are essential for a good team. If you have some that you’re paying under $5M a year, that’s gold. Therefore I’d much rather have Livers than Kennard. And Livers plays D.

Good cap management comes down to having players w good value - playing better than their contract. The risks go up paying rotation players over $10M, and any player over $20M. If they get injured or start getting outplayed by a rookie, they become dead weight and seriously impact your cap flexibility.

Getting rid of Kennard was the right move. Same reason that we shouldn’t blow all our cap space now on any big money free agents. If we whiff on a couple our rebuild is over. We need to keep looking for value. Weaver is doing a good job w that.

[vege]

No doubt. GREAT shooter.

PPG 11.6
PER 12.9
VORP 1.1
DRTG 113.9
RPM -3.13

$13,745,455
$14,763,636
$14,763,636

100% acknowledge Kennard is fantastic at what he does. Great role player. He's got a specific skillset and he's as good as anyone at that skill.

For the sake of comparison Luke shot 41.5% his rookie year, which is also quite impressive. Certainly better than Livers 39.1%, but that's not too shabby either. And Livers costs $1,563,518 & $1,836,096 the next 2 seasons. In all fairness I do acknowledge it's a very small sample size for Livers, but he's been fairly consistent in how he's played each game. This isn't a guy who's been up & down or streaky. He plays like a seasoned vet every time he steps on the court. Even when he's not scoring he makes smart bball plays and contributes solid defense.

I stand by my statement; I'd MUCH rather have Livers @ $1.6 mil than pay Kennard $14 mil per season. I'm taking the more well rounded player at 1/9 the cost over the specialist who is a liability as a starter. And I'd say the same thing about other players as well; give me 39+% shooting and solid defense over a guy shooting 45% with no defense. Doesn't do any good if you just give it back at the other end. On a friendlier contract? Maybe I take the bench specialist. But @ $14 mil? No way. He's not worth that much money.

Meh it doesn't really matter anyway because they play different positions anyway they'd be nice together in the rotation. Me personally I always liked kennard he's not just a shooter either he can put it on the floor some and pass it.

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I'd rather give away a 5th 2nd rounder than pay Kennard $14 mil. But to each his own I guess.

Instead of paying Kennard 14 mil, we're paying KO 12 mil and Frank Jackson 3 mil

Kennard's problem at the time was his Knees, and people were happy for us not paying him because they thought he could be the next Blake Griffin injury wise. He would be a great fit for us, Bruce Brown would also be a good fit, but Weaver had to fire everyone no matter what to make this his team.

[tmorgan]

Kennard at 14 is not an asset. He isn’t Korver, or Redick, who could actually play team defense in their primes. He’s shooting and a little playmaking, basically Stauskas, who is floating in and out of the league.

Dumping Bruce Brown hurt, though.

[Cowology]

Meh it doesn't really matter anyway because they play different positions anyway they'd be nice together in the rotation. Me personally I always liked kennard he's not just a shooter either he can put it on the floor some and pass it.

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I'd rather give away a 5th 2nd rounder than pay Kennard $14 mil. But to each his own I guess.

Instead of paying Kennard 14 mil, we're paying KO 12 mil and Frank Jackson 3 mil

Kennard's problem at the time was his Knees, and people were happy for us not paying him because they thought he could be the next Blake Griffin injury wise. He would be a great fit for us, Bruce Brown would also be a good fit, but Weaver had to fire everyone no matter what to make this his team.

If your argument for wanting Kennard @ $14 revolves around equating him to Olynyk/Jackson then you may want to rethink that position. Yikes!!

[vege]

I'd rather give away a 5th 2nd rounder than pay Kennard $14 mil. But to each his own I guess.

Instead of paying Kennard 14 mil, we're paying KO 12 mil and Frank Jackson 3 mil

Kennard's problem at the time was his Knees, and people were happy for us not paying him because they thought he could be the next Blake Griffin injury wise. He would be a great fit for us, Bruce Brown would also be a good fit, but Weaver had to fire everyone no matter what to make this his team.

If your argument for wanting Kennard @ $14 revolved around equating him to Olynyk/Jackson then you may want to rethink that position. Especially because in this example you aren't even replacing one with the other; you're pairing them together. Yikes!!

No, you didn't get it. My argument is, what we usually get with our money. We always have to overpay for crap players.

KO and F.Jackson are what we have right now. Frank Jackson is playing what would supposedly be Kennard's role and KO is what we did with the money we're saving from Kennard.

[Cowology]

Instead of paying Kennard 14 mil, we're paying KO 12 mil and Frank Jackson 3 mil

Kennard's problem at the time was his Knees, and people were happy for us not paying him because they thought he could be the next Blake Griffin injury wise. He would be a great fit for us, Bruce Brown would also be a good fit, but Weaver had to fire everyone no matter what to make this his team.

If your argument for wanting Kennard @ $14 revolved around equating him to Olynyk/Jackson then you may want to rethink that position. Especially because in this example you aren't even replacing one with the other; you're pairing them together. Yikes!!

No, you didn't get it. My argument is, what we usually get with our money. We always have to overpay for crap players.

KO and F.Jackson are what we have right now. Frank Jackson is playing what would supposedly be Kennard's role and KO is what we did with the money we're saving from Kennard.

So you admit it would be an "overpay for crap players". Got it.

"If we're going to spend our money poorly..." isn't a good argument. You aren't validating Kennards value by juxtaposing him next to other bad money. That's terrible logic.

Kennard @ $14 mil is poor value. Comparing him to other bad contracts as justifaction doesn't change that.