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Brunson and Mitch Robinson

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Re: Brunson and Mitch Robinson 

Post#141 » by Cowology » Tue Apr 12, 2022 1:50 pm

Kalamazoo317 wrote:I don't think we're going to tank or can unless we have a catastrophic injury. I think a good draft and internal improvement alone, paired with some injury luck, can and should have us competing for the playoffs. I'm just not sure I'm ready to go all-in on free agency and kill our flexibility, especially if it means blocking opportunities for young players on our roster.

I think continuity and internal improvement are better things to focus on than trying to sign some big shot free agents anyway. We have a lot of nice pieces that we just need to focus on getting better.

I can respect not wanting to blow our FA wad in 2022. However, having looked at the '23 class I don't personally see anybody worth waiting for. That class doesn't look much better. That doesn't mean I'm in favor of just throwing money around frivolously though.

I think you look at this years FA class, determine your limits and then stick to them. Brunson & Robinson are examples of guys you want at the right price, but don't get into a bidding war. If somebody outclasses your bid, then you accept that and move on. You don't up your offer. You come back next year. That's not the same as deliberately waiting another year, but it's having the patience & discipline to know that you *can* and that's better than overspending on mediocre talent.

I just think the notion of deliberately trying for another top 5 pick next year is folly.
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Re: Brunson and Mitch Robinson 

Post#142 » by Kalamazoo317 » Tue Apr 12, 2022 1:54 pm

Sure. I really don't have any locked in ideas on free agency until after I know what happens with the draft anyway.

I could see an argument for taking fliers on guys like Ayton or Miles Bridges and then being fine with it if we strike out, though.
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Re: Brunson and Mitch Robinson 

Post#143 » by LSV » Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:20 pm

Assuming that we get one of the top 3 and choose a power forward, this would be my roster for the 2022-2023 season:
- I choose to Jabari Smith Jr./Paolo Banchero/Chet Holgrem
- I'm not selling Jerami Grant.
- I sign a SG.

PG: Cade Cunningham (20m) / Killian Hayes (25m) / - (3m)
SG: NEW (25m) / Cade Cunningham (15m) / Frank Jackson (8m)
SF: Jerami Grant (15m) / Saddiq Bey (25m) / Isaiah Livers (8m)
PF: DRAFT (25m) / Jerami Grant (15m) / Marvin Bagley III (5m) / Isaiah Livers (3m)
C: Isaiah Stewart (20m) / Marvin Bagley III (20m) / Kelly Olynyk (8m)
In parentheses the minutes.

If it were also possible to sign a center, I would try to sell Kelly Olynyk, and then:
C: CENTER (23m) / Isaiah Stewart (15m) / Marvin Bagley III (10m)

I think that is an obvious improvement.
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Re: Brunson and Mitch Robinson 

Post#144 » by aad » Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:25 pm

Bey not coming off the bench it’s a wrap on that
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Re: Brunson and Mitch Robinson 

Post#145 » by LSV » Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:32 pm

aad wrote:Bey not coming off the bench it’s a wrap on that


It would be a great second unit.
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Re: Brunson and Mitch Robinson 

Post#146 » by JLiv » Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:12 pm

Cowology wrote:
JLiv wrote:I’ve said it before but I don’t think this off-season should be the one that caps us out AND takes us out the lower lottery. I think Cade will be a star / superstar but I don’t think it’s imperative that we forcibly build a play in team. The top teams in the league have star combinations but we‘re not sure if we even have a rising star combo yet.

A Brunson / Cunningham / Bey / 2022 1st / Robinson lineup looks decent in theory but would almost certainly lift us out the lower lotto in 2023. In my opinion, we need our core assets (Cade / Bey / Grant or Grant’s Return / 2022 1st) to be the ones to that take us out the lower lottery before locking in multi year contract guys around them. More specifically, I want our core assets to prove they don’t need a top 5 pick in 2023. That’s when you go get capped out. I’m sure an off ball scoring guard and defensive big will be available next offseason.

If the following things happen at the same time, our ceiling will be the 2010s Wizards or Blazers:

- 2022 1st busts or doesn’t have star potential
- Bey stays inconsistent
- Bury our 2020 1sts (Hayes and Stewart) alive under guys who play their positions
- Brunson and Robinson don’t continue to get better but play us into treadmill territory

We’re already a lower lotto team. We might as well make sure we hit in more years than in 2021 before departing lower lotto territory.
We're gonna be outa that range if all we do is come back healthy. Then all you're doing is looking at a pick in a 8-15 range and *hoping* you find a gem. You haven't gained anything. Just another semi-crappy year that probably wasn't crappy enough to get you the piece you are hoping for.

It amazes me how bleak some of you think the future is. Have you guys been watching the same team as me the past 2 months? Have you seen Cade play?? There is virtually zero chance we tank next season unless Cade suffers a significant injury.



I specifically said I want us to organically leave the lottery vs using up all our cap space in the process of becoming a play in team. I think the future’s bright.
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Re: Brunson and Mitch Robinson 

Post#147 » by Cowology » Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:38 pm

JLiv wrote:
Cowology wrote:
JLiv wrote:I’ve said it before but I don’t think this off-season should be the one that caps us out AND takes us out the lower lottery. I think Cade will be a star / superstar but I don’t think it’s imperative that we forcibly build a play in team. The top teams in the league have star combinations but we‘re not sure if we even have a rising star combo yet.

A Brunson / Cunningham / Bey / 2022 1st / Robinson lineup looks decent in theory but would almost certainly lift us out the lower lotto in 2023. In my opinion, we need our core assets (Cade / Bey / Grant or Grant’s Return / 2022 1st) to be the ones to that take us out the lower lottery before locking in multi year contract guys around them. More specifically, I want our core assets to prove they don’t need a top 5 pick in 2023. That’s when you go get capped out. I’m sure an off ball scoring guard and defensive big will be available next offseason.

If the following things happen at the same time, our ceiling will be the 2010s Wizards or Blazers:

- 2022 1st busts or doesn’t have star potential
- Bey stays inconsistent
- Bury our 2020 1sts (Hayes and Stewart) alive under guys who play their positions
- Brunson and Robinson don’t continue to get better but play us into treadmill territory

We’re already a lower lotto team. We might as well make sure we hit in more years than in 2021 before departing lower lotto territory.
We're gonna be outa that range if all we do is come back healthy. Then all you're doing is looking at a pick in a 8-15 range and *hoping* you find a gem. You haven't gained anything. Just another semi-crappy year that probably wasn't crappy enough to get you the piece you are hoping for.

It amazes me how bleak some of you think the future is. Have you guys been watching the same team as me the past 2 months? Have you seen Cade play?? There is virtually zero chance we tank next season unless Cade suffers a significant injury.



I specifically said I want us to organically leave the lottery vs using up all our cap space in the process of becoming a play in team. I think the future’s bright.
Again, to what benefit? We aren't going to get a high pick regardless. The idea they have to "prove" that before we add more talent to the roster is absurd.
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Re: Brunson and Mitch Robinson 

Post#148 » by JLiv » Tue Apr 12, 2022 4:10 pm

Benefit 1: not getting capped out for Brunson and Mitchell Robinson

Benefit 2: Not burying Hayes and Stewart behind 2 guys that play their position

You’re right, we should add talent no matter what. But not these guys at the price we’ve been known to pay for free agents. Brunson to pair with Cade is okay but Robinson too is wild. Especially if they cap us out for the next couple years.
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Re: Brunson and Mitch Robinson 

Post#149 » by Cowology » Tue Apr 12, 2022 4:35 pm

JLiv wrote:Benefit 1: not getting capped out for Brunson and Mitchell Robinson

Benefit 2: Not burying Hayes and Stewart behind 2 guys that play their position

You’re right, we should add talent no matter what. But not these guys at the price we’ve been known to pay for free agents. Brunson to pair with Cade is okay but Robinson too is wild. Especially if they cap us out for the next couple years.
I'm not in favor of signing Robinson either, but that's because I don't think he presents a significant upgrade. Brunson does. And if you look at next years FA class there aren't any better guards that will realistically be available. D'Angelo Russell is the only quality player in our age range and you can expect Minny will want to keep their core intact. There will be a handful of RFA like Poole & Barrett, but their respective teams are in control and non of them present some huge upgrade over Brunson.

We're going to cap out on somebody. Who do you suggest we spend money on? We aren't going to land an All-Star caliber player no matter how you slice it. Brunson's & Jerami Grant's are pretty much where we're at. We also don't know what other teams we have to compete with in '23 in terms of cap space, so you're going in sorta blind and *hoping* for a better outcome.

And worrying about burying Hayes/Stewart should not be a huge concern. These are bench players we *should* be actively looking to upgrade. IF either of them (Hayes in particular) shows some actual growth and earns minutes, great. Better for us. But you don't pass on adding an actual quality player because a guy who's been absolutely terrible offensively *might* improve. He can still get minutes off the bench and earn more.

We're no more likely to land some huge impact player next year than we are to snag LaVine this year. That isn't going to change. Seriously, if you can outline a realistic plan to land a higher impact player via FA I'd love to hear it. I'm all on-board with adding better players but hope & a prayer isn't a viable plan. Who are you targeting in '23 that is a better option?
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Re: Brunson and Mitch Robinson 

Post#150 » by Sort » Tue Apr 12, 2022 5:08 pm

When I think about Brunson and Robinson I quickly imagine trade scenarios instead. Pistons should use some of that cap space to get a few more assets. Once Ayton and Lavine are off the table, which shouldn't take much time, I hope they stay clear of blowing all their money on FAs.
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Re: Brunson and Mitch Robinson 

Post#151 » by FloridaMan78 » Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:06 pm

Here’s our salary for the 2023 off-season

Cade 11 mil
Killian 7.4 mil
Stewart 5.5
Bey 4.5
Livers 1.8
Deadman 2.8
Draft pick 10 mil

52 mil in total salary
Salary cap should be around 125 mil
That’s 75 mil in capspace.

This year if we signed
Brunson 20 mil
Robinson 13 mil
Bagley 11 mil
We would have 31 mil in capspace. That’s more than we have this year.
I’m not worried about being capped out.
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Re: Brunson and Mitch Robinson 

Post#152 » by LaSheed » Tue Apr 12, 2022 10:35 pm

Can someone sell me on the idea that if Grant gets traded Miles Bridges should be our target?

Couple years younger, better rebounder and athletic as all hell. But if that's the big money free agent isn't it similar fit with Stewart?

To me it seems they are fairly similar offensively. Bridges moves without the ball alot better. But iso scorer id say Advantage Grant. Shoot about the same. I'd just don't love the idea of trading Grant and spending $100m+ on a similar fit. Am I looking at this wrong?
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Re: Brunson and Mitch Robinson 

Post#153 » by Cowology » Tue Apr 12, 2022 10:40 pm

LaSheed wrote:Can someone sell me on the idea that if Grant gets traded Miles Bridges should be our target?

Couple years younger, better rebounder and athletic as all hell. But if that's the big money free agent isn't it similar fit with Stewart?

To me it seems they are fairly similar offensively. Bridges moves without the ball alot better. But iso scorer id say Advantage Grant. Shoot about the same. I'd just don't love the idea of trading Grant and spending $100m+ on a similar fit. Am I looking at this wrong?
Bridges is younger and pretty much better all around. Better rebounder. Better passer. Better defender. That said, I don't particularly like the idea of needing to offer up a max contract in order to try and pry him away.
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Re: Brunson and Mitch Robinson 

Post#154 » by LaSheed » Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:07 am

Cowology wrote:
LaSheed wrote:Can someone sell me on the idea that if Grant gets traded Miles Bridges should be our target?

Couple years younger, better rebounder and athletic as all hell. But if that's the big money free agent isn't it similar fit with Stewart?

To me it seems they are fairly similar offensively. Bridges moves without the ball alot better. But iso scorer id say Advantage Grant. Shoot about the same. I'd just don't love the idea of trading Grant and spending $100m+ on a similar fit. Am I looking at this wrong?
Bridges is younger and pretty much better all around. Better rebounder. Better passer. Better defender. That said, I don't particularly like the idea of needing to offer up a max contract in order to try and pry him away.


Exactly how I feel. Just seen other poster as their #1 FA target and I just don't see it.
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Re: Brunson and Mitch Robinson 

Post#155 » by Kalamazoo317 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:28 am

Depends on what Grant gets traded for and what we get in the draft.
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Re: Brunson and Mitch Robinson 

Post#156 » by zeebneeb » Tue Apr 19, 2022 2:36 am

Okay, watching Brunson cook in the playoffs is enough for me. I will always favor playoff performers, and he is laying down a monster right now.
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Re: Brunson and Mitch Robinson 

Post#157 » by vege » Tue Apr 19, 2022 2:41 am

Brunson is a beast, anyone still against trying to get him?
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Re: Brunson and Mitch Robinson 

Post#158 » by zeebneeb » Tue Apr 19, 2022 2:46 am

He is making smart decisions, and doing everything he can to try and win the game without Doncic.

Damn.
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Re: Brunson and Mitch Robinson 

Post#159 » by ElectricMayhem » Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:00 am

Bruncic.
At the end of the day, it's not about wins and losses. Teamwork, fair play, and good sportsmanship make champions of us all.

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Re: Brunson and Mitch Robinson 

Post#160 » by JLiv » Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:02 am

I’m all for Brunson now. Him balling like this in the playoffs makes things a bit more interesting though. The question is gonna go from “can Dallas afford to keep him” to “can Dallas afford to lose him”

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