Alright, time for your big boards!

[Snakebites]

I just simmed the lottery and we got 6th or 7th like eight times in a row. I’m not a superstitious man but…

[DNice68]

https://theathletic.com/3240187/2022/04/10/pistons-mock-draft-chet-holmgren/?source=emp_shared_article
just released, Edwards usually has some decent intel

main takeaways for me are that he thinks Chet is number 1 on the pistons board, he thinks Paolo would be number 2, then Jabari followed closely by Murray

Starting to feel like if we don't land in top 3, Murray will be the pick whether we are pick 4/5/6. If we were really unlucky and fell to 7 he might be off the board I suppose

I would call this the ‘early big board’ for Weaver. There is no Cade in this draft, so I see things changing!

[reanimator]

Tier 1
1. Chet - two way, high iq talent, will add wins to the win column, more skilled Jarret Allen/slower Evan Mobley . Gonzaga runs a motion offense, and featured Drew Timme at center. In NBA spacing, pick & roll, pick & pop action, Chet will be very hard to guard.
2. Jabari - elite jumpshot weapon for Cade, good perimeter defender, high energy, forward, positive A/TO, MPJ w/defense
3. Shaedon - See Ivey statement below, Cade needs a co-star 2 guard... Shaedon is bigger.

Tier 2
4. Ivey - Cade needs help creating offense and easy buckets, combo 2. You don't want to be in a position where Cade gets injured and your team is done. Or he gets face guarded or fatigued, and the offense cant score for a whole quarter.
5. Bennedict Mathurin - elite role playing 2, immediately makes the starting lineup better, can also feed off Killian as a 2.
6. Banchero - love his offense but a 4 that is weak defensively is the worst kind of tweener to have in the playoffs. Too talented to pass up past 6, maybe play as a small ball center?
7. Keegan Murray - hustle/stretch 4 that can replace Grant if needed

If we pick anyone from Tier 2 when anyone from Tier 1 is available, I will be very disappointed. But if we get down into Tier 2 I slighy prefer the shooting guards, but will hope for the best picks from Troy.

We seem to have very similar logic.

Thoughts on Tari Eason?

I know we're both much higher on Eason than the consensus, but what do you think about his playmaking/overall feel for the game. His ast rate + ast/to ratio has pretty much been the blueprint for busts when picking in the lottery. This coupled with his tendency to overplay on defense and get into foul trouble would raise some questions about his overall bball IQ. These are my only concerns for him really, if he had shown more there, it would be hard for me to keep him out of the top 3.
I'm willing to overlook some of these as just general rawness+adapting to a much larger offensive role, so he's still top 5 for me. Even if he ended up nothing more than a 3+D transition scoring, wing stopper, in this draft I think that could wind up being a top 5 player.

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&sIndex=53&minGP=15&minAst=11&minATO=1&minpick=14&year=all&start=-11101&end=all0501&astSelect=-1&atoSelect=-1&pickSelect=-1

^ lottery picks with sub 11% ast rate + negative ast/to

He doesn't have much playmaking, and it might cap the ultimate ceiling, but the appeal of Eason is his outlier like skillsets and the hopes he can "solve" his deficiencies.

As far as his over aggressive style of defense, I think that is more so a function of role as a small ball PF/C 6th man who Coach Wade wanted to go full motor.

But yeah, Eason is tricky because a lot will come down to whats going on between the ears. Can't see him busting though with his defensive versatility, rebounding, handle (underrated), and shooting. Think he will be absolutely lethal hunting mismatches.

Granted Kawhi is Kawhi and imo was a better shooter, longer, and more disciplined going into the NBA, he didn't have much playmaking for others until he was well into his career and yet was still highly valuable. Eason and Sharpe are worth taking a shot at after 4 in a draft like this no question.

[theBigLip]

This seems pretty straightforward - try to get Chet, Paolo, Jabari or Keegan if we get a top 4 pick. Ivey, Mathurian, Griffin or Sharpe if we're 5 or lower. To fine tune those lists, I'm still leary about Chet and if we get #1 and can swap down, I'd do it, although I'm warming up to the idea that he's be great w Cunningham and we don't play him at center. I do think Mathurian is the best SG - nasty tough attitude from what I saw in the tournament. Griffin isn't a lights out shooter and Ivey can be a bit of a prima donna. Sharpe is a big mystery. So SG will be an adventure.

[Cowology]

This seems pretty straightforward - try to get Chet, Paolo, Jabari or Keegan if we get a top 4 pick. Ivey, Mathurian, Griffin or Sharpe if we're 5 or lower. To fine tune those lists, I'm still leary about Chet and if we get #1 and can swap down, I'd do it, although I'm warming up to the idea that he's be great w Cunningham and we don't play him at center. I do think Mathurian is the best SG - nasty tough attitude from what I saw in the tournament. Griffin isn't a lights out shooter and Ivey can be a bit of a prima donna. Sharpe is a big mystery. So SG will be an adventure.

I really don't get the obsession with trying to find a SG to pair with Cade.

I will continue to insist that we want either a PG or at worst a capable ball handling combo-guard. There is a reason we always pair Cade with CoJo/Hayes, etc. He's more Kobe/Wade than an actual PG. He can run the point, but you don't want him there for 36 minutes. It'll wear him down having to play every possession at both ends of the floor and overall it makes us easier to defend.

Griffin & Mathurin are not ideal. Ivey or maybe even Daniels you sorta accept just based on upside, but I still think we want to draft a forward & find a veteran ball-handler in FA.

[theBigLip]

This seems pretty straightforward - try to get Chet, Paolo, Jabari or Keegan if we get a top 4 pick. Ivey, Mathurian, Griffin or Sharpe if we're 5 or lower. To fine tune those lists, I'm still leary about Chet and if we get #1 and can swap down, I'd do it, although I'm warming up to the idea that he's be great w Cunningham and we don't play him at center. I do think Mathurian is the best SG - nasty tough attitude from what I saw in the tournament. Griffin isn't a lights out shooter and Ivey can be a bit of a prima donna. Sharpe is a big mystery. So SG will be an adventure.

I really don't get the obsession with trying to find a SG to pair with Cade.

I will continue to insist that we want either a PG or at worst a capable ball handling combo-guard. There is a reason we always pair Cade with CoJo/Hayes, etc. He's more Kobe/Wade than an actual PG. He can run the point, but you don't want him there for 36 minutes. It'll wear him down having to play every possession at both ends of the floor and overall it makes us easier to defend.

Griffin & Mathurin are not ideal. Ivey or maybe even Daniels you sorta accept just based on upside, but I still think we want to draft a forward & find a veteran ball-handler in FA.

I do want someone who can be a killer shooter next to Cade. Maybe it is more of a combo guard. Can Cade clone himself? So what do you do if we get pick #6 or #7?

[whitehops]

This seems pretty straightforward - try to get Chet, Paolo, Jabari or Keegan if we get a top 4 pick. Ivey, Mathurian, Griffin or Sharpe if we're 5 or lower. To fine tune those lists, I'm still leary about Chet and if we get #1 and can swap down, I'd do it, although I'm warming up to the idea that he's be great w Cunningham and we don't play him at center. I do think Mathurian is the best SG - nasty tough attitude from what I saw in the tournament. Griffin isn't a lights out shooter and Ivey can be a bit of a prima donna. Sharpe is a big mystery. So SG will be an adventure.

if we do go with a guard then i like ivey for the upside but like mathurin as well. the thing with mathurin though is that his handle/creation ability is pretty underdeveloped so he definitely wouldn't be a secondary playmaker or anything like that. he'd essentially be a bigger KCP, but that also brings up the question if he'd be able to guard PGs full time.

I will continue to insist that we want either a PG or at worst a capable ball handling combo-guard. There is a reason we always pair Cade with CoJo/Hayes, etc. He's more Kobe/Wade than an actual PG. He can run the point, but you don't want him there for 36 minutes. It'll wear him down having to play every possession at both ends of the floor and overall it makes us easier to defend.

we play cojo and hayes with him primarily because we need someone to defend PGs full time. there are also stretches when cojo or hayes weren't on the floor and we'd have either mcgruder or jackson defending the PGs but cade running the offense. towards the end of the season cade ran pretty much the entire offense even with cojo or hayes beside him.

we need a secondary play maker - that's more or less a fact. it doesn't have to come from the other guard spot though. paolo could be our secondary play maker, for example, and then we could get a SG to pair with cade assuming they had the ability to defend PGs full time.

and i don't think anybody is obsessed with pairing a SG beside cade. i think it's just the off season, there's a lot of uncertainty/potential and people are just excited with the many possibilities. for the record, i think brunson would be a great fit beside cade and he's a SG.

[theBigLip]

we play cojo and hayes with him primarily because we need someone to defend PGs full time. there are also stretches when cojo or hayes weren't on the floor and we'd have either mcgruder or jackson defending the PGs but cade running the offense. towards the end of the season cade ran pretty much the entire offense even with cojo or hayes beside him.

we need a secondary play maker - that's more or less a fact. it doesn't have to come from the other guard spot though. paolo could be our secondary play maker, for example, and then we could get a SG to pair with cade assuming they had the ability to defend PGs full time.

Good points. And even if we're not obsessed about a SG, if we fall to 6 or 7, a SG is likely to be BPA, so I have to assume that's how we would go.

[kierkegaard]

I think Weaver is pretty conservative and risk averse at the core. In addition, team/fit are very high priorities for him. So he'll gravitate toward high floor, can't miss guys over slightly riskier but higher ceiling guys. Bey, Stewart and even Cade fit this profile.

I don't agree with Weaver on this, since I think we really need to take a chance
1) either on an explosive athlete who can assist Cade in breaking down the defense
2) or on a clear "outlier" talent who, if he pans out, will really pressure defenses as currently constructed--e.g. a Jabari who creates his own shot and drives to the hole or a Chet who doesn't fold physically at the NBA level.

The thing is that "chance" in this context isn't really that much of a chance at all, since with the exception Chet, maybe, all the standard names here are really pretty safe picks.

I disagree with this. Hayes was not a conservative pick, he was a high potential project, and according to JEIII Weaver has Chet #1 on his board who is arguably one of the bigger risks in this draft.

I think he probably values Murray because of the versatility and his pro readiness. It's not why I'd draft a guy with a top 5 pick but just my guess as to why Weaver likes him more than the others in that 2nd tier.

I think you're overall right and thought about the same thing immediately after I posted

That said, I still think he's so focused on the notion of building the team in what he conceives as "the right way" that he'll be inclined to choose team fit over things like individual athleticism, explosiveness, etc., which might cause him to miss out on what many of us might see as a superior prospect.

So do you win as a well oiled machine or because you have, hypothetically, 3-4-5 individually unguardable guys? I think he's clearly focused on the former vs the later, which is not a bad strategy ultimately. But it does increase the likelihood that he makes a pick many find baffling and even frustrating.

[tmorgan]

I’m gonna keep preaching Dyson Daniels if we get a 2nd pick or drop to 7th.

He’s big, has quick feet (his defense in the G-League for the Ignite stood out), and he has the makings of a secondary ball handler. He’s young, and his shot isn’t all the way there yet, but he’s really intriguing as a prospect. If you haven’t seen his Ignite mixes, you should really check them out.

[Cowology]

I’m gonna keep preaching Dyson Daniels if we get a 2nd pick or drop to 7th.

He’s big, has quick feet (his defense in the G-League for the Ignite stood out), and he has the makings of a secondary ball handler. He’s young, and his shot isn’t all the way there yet, but he’s really intriguing as a prospect. If you haven’t seen his Ignite mixes, you should really check them out.

I'd rather somebody like Daniels over Mathurin, but I'll be disappointed if we drop that far. If we added another pick in the 7-12 range then I'd feel a lot better about using one of our picks on a guard.

[zeebneeb]

This seems pretty straightforward - try to get Chet, Paolo, Jabari or Keegan if we get a top 4 pick. Ivey, Mathurian, Griffin or Sharpe if we're 5 or lower. To fine tune those lists, I'm still leary about Chet and if we get #1 and can swap down, I'd do it, although I'm warming up to the idea that he's be great w Cunningham and we don't play him at center. I do think Mathurian is the best SG - nasty tough attitude from what I saw in the tournament. Griffin isn't a lights out shooter and Ivey can be a bit of a prima donna. Sharpe is a big mystery. So SG will be an adventure.

I really don't get the obsession with trying to find a SG to pair with Cade.

I will continue to insist that we want either a PG or at worst a capable ball handling combo-guard. There is a reason we always pair Cade with CoJo/Hayes, etc. He's more Kobe/Wade than an actual PG. He can run the point, but you don't want him there for 36 minutes. It'll wear him down having to play every possession at both ends of the floor and overall it makes us easier to defend.

Griffin & Mathurin are not ideal. Ivey or maybe even Daniels you sorta accept just based on upside, but I still think we want to draft a forward & find a veteran ball-handler in FA.

It would appear this is where we fundamentally disagree with Cades role, and ill be bold and say you disagree with the font office assessment as well. (Which is fine, I absolutely could be wrong)

Cade is at his best, and has played his best when he is the floor general, PG, primary ball handler. He controls the floor when he leads. What he needs is exactly what Mathurin would provide. The team seems to be building around Cade being the primary ball handler, in a Doncic role.

I'm not saying that's good or bad, but it certainly seems like it to me.

Again, I could be wrong, but the play on the floor, Cades usage rate, ball time, and Bagley being brought in all point to that.

I don't see him in a Wade type role, ever.

[vic]

Tier 1
1. Chet - two way, high iq talent, will add wins to the win column, more skilled Jarret Allen/slower Evan Mobley . Gonzaga runs a motion offense, and featured Drew Timme at center. In NBA spacing, pick & roll, pick & pop action, Chet will be very hard to guard.
2. Jabari - elite jumpshot weapon for Cade, good perimeter defender, high energy, forward, positive A/TO, MPJ w/defense
3. Shaedon - See Ivey statement below, Cade needs a co-star 2 guard... Shaedon is bigger.

Tier 2
4. Ivey - Cade needs help creating offense and easy buckets, combo 2. You don't want to be in a position where Cade gets injured and your team is done. Or he gets face guarded or fatigued, and the offense cant score for a whole quarter.
5. Bennedict Mathurin - elite role playing 2, immediately makes the starting lineup better, can also feed off Killian as a 2.
6. Banchero - love his offense but a 4 that is weak defensively is the worst kind of tweener to have in the playoffs. Too talented to pass up past 6, maybe play as a small ball center?
7. Keegan Murray - hustle/stretch 4 that can replace Grant if needed

If we pick anyone from Tier 2 when anyone from Tier 1 is available, I will be very disappointed. But if we get down into Tier 2 I slighy prefer the shooting guards, but will hope for the best picks from Troy.

We seem to have very similar logic.

Thoughts on Tari Eason?

I love Tari Eason, just not top 7.

If Sharpe is the 1st pick and Grant is traded, Eason would be a good late lottery pick. You need a strong defensive 4 and if your losing Grant you have to replace him with a defensive beast like Chet/Jabari/Eason.. or to a lesser extent Keegan.

Just can’t replace him with Paolo. No thanks! Not trying to get the next Blake/ Carmelo/Webber/Barkley/Bernard King/Karl Malone

[vic]

Tier 1
1. Chet - two way, high iq talent, will add wins to the win column, more skilled Jarret Allen/slower Evan Mobley . Gonzaga runs a motion offense, and featured Drew Timme at center. In NBA spacing, pick & roll, pick & pop action, Chet will be very hard to guard.
2. Jabari - elite jumpshot weapon for Cade, good perimeter defender, high energy, forward, positive A/TO, MPJ w/defense
3. Shaedon - See Ivey statement below, Cade needs a co-star 2 guard... Shaedon is bigger.

Tier 2
4. Ivey - Cade needs help creating offense and easy buckets, combo 2. You don't want to be in a position where Cade gets injured and your team is done. Or he gets face guarded or fatigued, and the offense cant score for a whole quarter.
5. Bennedict Mathurin - elite role playing 2, immediately makes the starting lineup better, can also feed off Killian as a 2.
6. Banchero - love his offense but a 4 that is weak defensively is the worst kind of tweener to have in the playoffs. Too talented to pass up past 6, maybe play as a small ball center?
7. Keegan Murray - hustle/stretch 4 that can replace Grant if needed

If we pick anyone from Tier 2 when anyone from Tier 1 is available, I will be very disappointed. But if we get down into Tier 2 I slighy prefer the shooting guards, but will hope for the best picks from Troy.

We seem to have very similar logic.

Thoughts on Tari Eason?

I know we're both much higher on Eason than the consensus, but what do you think about his playmaking/overall feel for the game. His ast rate + ast/to ratio has pretty much been the blueprint for busts when picking in the lottery. This coupled with his tendency to overplay on defense and get into foul trouble would raise some questions about his overall bball IQ. These are my only concerns for him really, if he had shown more there, it would be hard for me to keep him out of the top 3.
I'm willing to overlook some of these as just general rawness+adapting to a much larger offensive role, so he's still top 5 for me. Even if he ended up nothing more than a 3+D transition scoring, wing stopper, in this draft I think that could wind up being a top 5 player.

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&sIndex=53&minGP=15&minAst=11&minATO=1&minpick=14&year=all&start=-11101&end=all0501&astSelect=-1&atoSelect=-1&pickSelect=-1

^ lottery picks with sub 11% ast rate + negative ast/to

I look at Tari Eason like I look at Herb Jones. You just need him to play his role... you don't need him to run the offense. You need him off the bench or you need him to be the lockdown guy that can catch lobs and hit a 3 if that's all you need. I'd only draft him to replace Grant with a 2nd lottery pick.

[Cowology]

This seems pretty straightforward - try to get Chet, Paolo, Jabari or Keegan if we get a top 4 pick. Ivey, Mathurian, Griffin or Sharpe if we're 5 or lower. To fine tune those lists, I'm still leary about Chet and if we get #1 and can swap down, I'd do it, although I'm warming up to the idea that he's be great w Cunningham and we don't play him at center. I do think Mathurian is the best SG - nasty tough attitude from what I saw in the tournament. Griffin isn't a lights out shooter and Ivey can be a bit of a prima donna. Sharpe is a big mystery. So SG will be an adventure.

I really don't get the obsession with trying to find a SG to pair with Cade.

I will continue to insist that we want either a PG or at worst a capable ball handling combo-guard. There is a reason we always pair Cade with CoJo/Hayes, etc. He's more Kobe/Wade than an actual PG. He can run the point, but you don't want him there for 36 minutes. It'll wear him down having to play every possession at both ends of the floor and overall it makes us easier to defend.

Griffin & Mathurin are not ideal. Ivey or maybe even Daniels you sorta accept just based on upside, but I still think we want to draft a forward & find a veteran ball-handler in FA.

t would appear this is where we fundamentally disagree with Cades role, and Iill be bold and say you disagree with the font office assessment as well. (Which is fine, I absolutely could be wrong)

Cade is at his best, and has played his best when he is the floor general, PG, primary ball handler. He controls the floor when he leads. What he needs is exactly what Mathurin would provide. The team seems to be building around Cade being the primary ball handler, in a Doncic role.

I'm not saying that's good or bad, but it certainly seems like it to me.

Again, I could be wrong, but the play on the floor, Cades usage rate, ball time, and Bagley being brought in all point to that.

I don't see him in a Wade type role, ever.

I don't think that's true at all and it seems like sort of an odd remark. Did Kobe/Wade just not get touches or run the offense because they were 2-guards?? This argument makes no sense to me.

Saying I want another ball-handler on the floor doesn't change Cade's game. It takes pressure off him and makes him more effective. He's still going to be a high usage player. Hell, Jordan had Pippen handle a lot of the ball-handling duties. Didn't seem to limit him.

Everybody wants to compare him to Doncic, but Doncic is a freakin anomaly. Cade doesn't have his vision or his passing ability. He's more likely to be a 25-7-7 player than a guy who averages 10 apg. He's going to live in the mid-range and score around the basket with a plethora of moves. His assists are counters to a collapsing defense, not something he sees 3 steps ahead. That's part of why he has so many bad turnovers; he's reacting instead of anticipating. Doncic anticipates.

And btw -- DWade basically averaged 27-7-5 through the prime of his career while being an efficient scorer from inside the 3pt line, but never being a great 3pt shooter himself and his usage rating was between 30-36% during those years (more than Cade this year). He had the ball in his hands all the time. He still always had a Mario Chalmers or similar player next to him.

[Billl]

One of the great things about having a do-it-all guy like cade is that you can put him out there with all sorts of different talents. I think the only "absolute musts" in a backcourt mate for him is that guy needs to be able to hit open shots and defend. Obviously you want your starting guards to be able to do more that that, but the "more" could come in a variety of ways and still fit fine with cade.

[zeebneeb]

I really don't get the obsession with trying to find a SG to pair with Cade.

I will continue to insist that we want either a PG or at worst a capable ball handling combo-guard. There is a reason we always pair Cade with CoJo/Hayes, etc. He's more Kobe/Wade than an actual PG. He can run the point, but you don't want him there for 36 minutes. It'll wear him down having to play every possession at both ends of the floor and overall it makes us easier to defend.

Griffin & Mathurin are not ideal. Ivey or maybe even Daniels you sorta accept just based on upside, but I still think we want to draft a forward & find a veteran ball-handler in FA.

t would appear this is where we fundamentally disagree with Cades role, and Iill be bold and say you disagree with the font office assessment as well. (Which is fine, I absolutely could be wrong)

Cade is at his best, and has played his best when he is the floor general, PG, primary ball handler. He controls the floor when he leads. What he needs is exactly what Mathurin would provide. The team seems to be building around Cade being the primary ball handler, in a Doncic role.

I'm not saying that's good or bad, but it certainly seems like it to me.

Again, I could be wrong, but the play on the floor, Cades usage rate, ball time, and Bagley being brought in all point to that.

I don't see him in a Wade type role, ever.

I don't think that's true at all and it seems like sort of an odd remark. Did Kobe/Wade just not get touches or run the offense because they were 2-guards?? This argument makes no sense to me.

Saying I want another ball-handler on the floor doesn't change Cade's game. It takes pressure off him and makes him more effective. He's still going to be a high usage player. Hell, Jordan had Pippen handle a lot of the ball-handling duties. Didn't seem to limit him.

Everybody wants to compare him to Doncic, but Doncic is a freakin anomaly. Cade doesn't have his vision or his passing ability. He's more likely to be a 25-7-7 player than a guy who averages 10 apg. He's going to live in the mid-range and score around the basket with a plethora of moves. His assists are counters to a collapsing defense, not something he sees 3 steps ahead. That's part of why he has so many bad turnovers; he's reacting instead of anticipating. Doncic anticipates.

And btw -- DWade basically averaged 27-7-5 through the prime of his career while being an efficient scorer from inside the 3pt line, but never being a great 3pt shooter himself and his usage rating was between 30-36 during those years. He had the ball in his hands all the time.

Again, I see Cade in Luka’s role, almost exactly. When he is ball dominant, good things happen for him, and the team.

The remark I made is in tune with what happened on the floor, so it's not odd at all. Cade was the primary ball handler, play runner, and floor general with the ball in his hand constantly. I mean that could change next year, but with the rumored Pistons big board, and free agent rumors, I just don't see it.

[Cowology]

t would appear this is where we fundamentally disagree with Cades role, and Iill be bold and say you disagree with the font office assessment as well. (Which is fine, I absolutely could be wrong)

Cade is at his best, and has played his best when he is the floor general, PG, primary ball handler. He controls the floor when he leads. What he needs is exactly what Mathurin would provide. The team seems to be building around Cade being the primary ball handler, in a Doncic role.

I'm not saying that's good or bad, but it certainly seems like it to me.

Again, I could be wrong, but the play on the floor, Cades usage rate, ball time, and Bagley being brought in all point to that.

I don't see him in a Wade type role, ever.

I don't think that's true at all and it seems like sort of an odd remark. Did Kobe/Wade just not get touches or run the offense because they were 2-guards?? This argument makes no sense to me.

Saying I want another ball-handler on the floor doesn't change Cade's game. It takes pressure off him and makes him more effective. He's still going to be a high usage player. Hell, Jordan had Pippen handle a lot of the ball-handling duties. Didn't seem to limit him.

Everybody wants to compare him to Doncic, but Doncic is a freakin anomaly. Cade doesn't have his vision or his passing ability. He's more likely to be a 25-7-7 player than a guy who averages 10 apg. He's going to live in the mid-range and score around the basket with a plethora of moves. His assists are counters to a collapsing defense, not something he sees 3 steps ahead. That's part of why he has so many bad turnovers; he's reacting instead of anticipating. Doncic anticipates.

And btw -- DWade basically averaged 27-7-5 through the prime of his career while being an efficient scorer from inside the 3pt line, but never being a great 3pt shooter himself and his usage rating was between 30-36 during those years. He had the ball in his hands all the time.

Again, I see Cade in Luka’s role, almost exactly. When he is ball dominant, good things happen for him, and the team.

The remark I made is in tune with what happened on the floor, so it's not odd at all. Cade was the primary ball handler, play runner, and floor general with the ball in his hand constantly. I mean that could change next year, but with the rumored Pistons big board, and free agent rumors, I just don't see it.

Maybe you think I'm making an argument that I'm not. Again, I just alluded to Wade who had a usage rating higher than Cade and who constantly ran the offense. Same with Kobe. Maybe it's just the "pg" "sg" verbiage that is causing some confusion here. I have not suggested he not run the offense or have the ball in his hands. I'm saying you STILL want a secondary ball-handler on the floor WHILE he's doing that. Just don't put him on island.

It's good to have another guy who can bring the ball up the floor if for no other reason than it allows Cade to rest occasionally. And having a second guy capable of attacking the defense makes us harder to defend. One of the guys we're "rumored" to be after is Brunson, who is a PG. He's a scoring PG, but he's a PG. He can handle the ball and initiate the offense even though Luka is still the primary. The Mavs just went out and got Dinwiddie (another PG) to do the same thing. They actually have TWO other PG to play beside Luka and take some of that pressure off him. Why do you think that is?

[reanimator]

I really don't get the obsession with trying to find a SG to pair with Cade.

I will continue to insist that we want either a PG or at worst a capable ball handling combo-guard. There is a reason we always pair Cade with CoJo/Hayes, etc. He's more Kobe/Wade than an actual PG. He can run the point, but you don't want him there for 36 minutes. It'll wear him down having to play every possession at both ends of the floor and overall it makes us easier to defend.

Griffin & Mathurin are not ideal. Ivey or maybe even Daniels you sorta accept just based on upside, but I still think we want to draft a forward & find a veteran ball-handler in FA.

t would appear this is where we fundamentally disagree with Cades role, and Iill be bold and say you disagree with the font office assessment as well. (Which is fine, I absolutely could be wrong)

Cade is at his best, and has played his best when he is the floor general, PG, primary ball handler. He controls the floor when he leads. What he needs is exactly what Mathurin would provide. The team seems to be building around Cade being the primary ball handler, in a Doncic role.

I'm not saying that's good or bad, but it certainly seems like it to me.

Again, I could be wrong, but the play on the floor, Cades usage rate, ball time, and Bagley being brought in all point to that.

I don't see him in a Wade type role, ever.

I don't think that's true at all and it seems like sort of an odd remark. Did Kobe/Wade just not get touches or run the offense because they were 2-guards?? This argument makes no sense to me.

Saying I want another ball-handler on the floor doesn't change Cade's game. It takes pressure off him and makes him more effective. He's still going to be a high usage player. Hell, Jordan had Pippen handle a lot of the ball-handling duties. Didn't seem to limit him.

Everybody wants to compare him to Doncic, but Doncic is a freakin anomaly. Cade doesn't have his vision or his passing ability. He's more likely to be a 25-7-7 player than a guy who averages 10 apg. He's going to live in the mid-range and score around the basket with a plethora of moves. His assists are counters to a collapsing defense, not something he sees 3 steps ahead. That's part of why he has so many bad turnovers; he's reacting instead of anticipating. Doncic anticipates.

And btw -- DWade basically averaged 27-7-5 through the prime of his career while being an efficient scorer from inside the 3pt line, but never being a great 3pt shooter himself and his usage rating was between 30-36% during those years (more than Cade this year). He had the ball in his hands all the time. He still always had a Mario Chalmers or similar player next to him.

Yeah 100%. That heliocentric let Cade be the only ballhandler framework will spell doom in the long run.

[Snakebites]

Yeah, I love Cade but don't view him as a heliocentric ball handler. I'd love to see him paired with another ball handler. It's worth noting that even the Harden Rockets played their best ball when they also had CP3. And the Mavs always seem to be looking to pair Luka with another ball handler too.