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Is shot blocking overrated?

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Is shot blocking overrated? 

Post#1 » by Cowology » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:21 pm

This may sound controversial, but I'm starting to believe that in the new NBA that shot-blocking isn't as important anymore.

Look at the top rated defense this past season - the Boston Celtics. Sure Williams averaged a little over 2 per game, but that's actually a relatively small number compared to defensive C's of years past and isn't exactly dominant. You don't fear his shotblocking.

Bam Adebayo, who will get a fair amount of consideration for DPOY, averaged less than 1 bpg!! In fact the Miami Heat are dead last in BPG, but are a top 4 defense. Draymond Green lead GS with 1.1 bpg and he missed significant time. The next closest person was Wiggins with 0.7 blocks. Ayton also comes in at a 0.7 bpg.

But those are your top 4 defensive teams by opponent fg% and defensive rating; Boston, Golden State, Phoenix & Miami. The Pistons averaged more bpg than all of them except for Boston. What they have are mobile, versatile defenders with high bball IQ's who are committed to that end of the floor and are able to switch.

I get that it's a sexy stat and we've all been raised to believe that shotblocking is foundational to good defense. But the truth may be that while it's still valuable, it's not of the same importance that it once was. I think it can be easy to view shotblocking as a sort of panacea for bad perimeter defense. Don't like how easily guards get into the paint? Add more shotblocking!!

I'm not saying it's trash or has no value. It's obvious that being able to deter driving players, make things more difficult & erase mistakes is still important. I'd rather have good shotblocking than not. But maybe it's time to come off guys like Mitchell Robinson a bit and recognize that more well rounded players can have just as much if not more value to winning basketball.

Stopping dribble penetration & having good interior defenders are definitely important, I'm just not sure how intrinsically linked shotblocking is to that anymore. Robinson might cover up some defensive deficiencies at other positions, but it might be a case of treating the symptom instead of the underlying cause.

tldr; get off Robinson - he's not the upgrade you think he is. Improve your defense by improving your bad defenders (CoJo, Bey, etc), not by trying to replace the one starter who actually plays good D.
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Re: Is shot blocking overrated? 

Post#2 » by Snakebites » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:29 pm

I've always thought shotblocking was overrated along with steals. Those are specific defensive moments that happen 2, at most 3 times per game and don't necessarily reflect what the player is doing at all other times on the floor. When offenses were less perimeter oriented, you could SORTA use it to gage how good a big man was defensively, but even then you had outliers like Samuel Dalembert who could block shots despite being poor overall rim protectors. Even then, it wasn't blocking shots that made a defender good- more that a lot of blocked shots was often a sign that a player was doing the right things defensively otherwise.

We all remember Ben Wallace's devastating blocked shots, but it was the way he altered possessions in all of the possessions in which he didn't block a shot that really made him DPOY.

Yes, it does appear that it's a worse indicator than it used to be, but it was never a very good one.
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Re: Is shot blocking overrated? 

Post#3 » by chrbal » Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:25 am

It’s largely misleading. Was going to add more, but then I read snakebites post. So basically what he said
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Re: Is shot blocking overrated? 

Post#4 » by Laimbeer » Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:43 am

Cowology wrote:This may sound controversial, but I'm starting to believe that in the new NBA that shot-blocking isn't as important anymore.

Look at the top rated defense this past season - the Boston Celtics. Sure Williams averaged a little over 2 per game, but that's actually a relatively small number compared to defensive C's of years past and isn't exactly dominant. You don't fear his shotblocking.

Bam Adebayo, who will get a fair amount of consideration for DPOY, averaged less than 1 bpg!! In fact the Miami Heat are dead last in BPG, but are a top 4 defense. Draymond Green lead GS with 1.1 bpg and he missed significant time. The next closest person was Wiggins with 0.7 blocks. Ayton also comes in at a 0.7 bpg.

But those are your top 4 defensive teams by opponent fg% and defensive rating; Boston, Golden State, Phoenix & Miami. The Pistons averaged more bpg than all of them except for Boston. What they have are mobile, versatile defenders with high bball IQ's who are committed to that end of the floor and are able to switch.

I get that it's a sexy stat and we've all been raised to believe that shotblocking is foundational to good defense. But the truth may be that while it's still valuable, it's not of the same importance that it once was. I think it can be easy to view shotblocking as a sort of panacea for bad perimeter defense. Don't like how easily guards get into the paint? Add more shotblocking!!

I'm not saying it's trash or has no value. It's obvious that being able to deter driving players, make things more difficult & erase mistakes is still important. I'd rather have good shotblocking than not. But maybe it's time to come off guys like Mitchell Robinson a bit and recognize that more well rounded players can have just as much if not more value to winning basketball.

Stopping dribble penetration & having good interior defenders are definitely important, I'm just not sure how intrinsically linked shotblocking is to that anymore. Robinson might cover up some defensive deficiencies at other positions, but it might be a case of treating the symptom instead of the underlying cause.

tldr; get off Robinson - he's not the upgrade you think he is. Improve your defense by improving your bad defenders (CoJo, Bey, etc), not by trying to replace the one starter who actually plays good D.


Who might this be?
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Re: Is shot blocking overrated? 

Post#5 » by FloridaMan78 » Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:59 am

Laimbeer wrote:
Cowology wrote:This may sound controversial, but I'm starting to believe that in the new NBA that shot-blocking isn't as important anymore.

Look at the top rated defense this past season - the Boston Celtics. Sure Williams averaged a little over 2 per game, but that's actually a relatively small number compared to defensive C's of years past and isn't exactly dominant. You don't fear his shotblocking.

Bam Adebayo, who will get a fair amount of consideration for DPOY, averaged less than 1 bpg!! In fact the Miami Heat are dead last in BPG, but are a top 4 defense. Draymond Green lead GS with 1.1 bpg and he missed significant time. The next closest person was Wiggins with 0.7 blocks. Ayton also comes in at a 0.7 bpg.

But those are your top 4 defensive teams by opponent fg% and defensive rating; Boston, Golden State, Phoenix & Miami. The Pistons averaged more bpg than all of them except for Boston. What they have are mobile, versatile defenders with high bball IQ's who are committed to that end of the floor and are able to switch.

I get that it's a sexy stat and we've all been raised to believe that shotblocking is foundational to good defense. But the truth may be that while it's still valuable, it's not of the same importance that it once was. I think it can be easy to view shotblocking as a sort of panacea for bad perimeter defense. Don't like how easily guards get into the paint? Add more shotblocking!!

I'm not saying it's trash or has no value. It's obvious that being able to deter driving players, make things more difficult & erase mistakes is still important. I'd rather have good shotblocking than not. But maybe it's time to come off guys like Mitchell Robinson a bit and recognize that more well rounded players can have just as much if not more value to winning basketball.

Stopping dribble penetration & having good interior defenders are definitely important, I'm just not sure how intrinsically linked shotblocking is to that anymore. Robinson might cover up some defensive deficiencies at other positions, but it might be a case of treating the symptom instead of the underlying cause.

tldr; get off Robinson - he's not the upgrade you think he is. Improve your defense by improving your bad defenders (CoJo, Bey, etc), not by trying to replace the one starter who actually plays good D.


Who might this be?


I’m guessing Stewart, who IMO is a good defender. I imagine it more of a continuation of the defense throughout the game. Split time between both. I like Robinson starting because he’s a better finisher inside with Cade feeding him.

The game has changed, but blocked shots are still important. Good shot blockers can be good lane defenders if they can also be good rebounders and good positional defenders.
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Re: Is shot blocking overrated? 

Post#6 » by The Moose » Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:01 am

Laimbeer wrote:
Cowology wrote:This may sound controversial, but I'm starting to believe that in the new NBA that shot-blocking isn't as important anymore.

Look at the top rated defense this past season - the Boston Celtics. Sure Williams averaged a little over 2 per game, but that's actually a relatively small number compared to defensive C's of years past and isn't exactly dominant. You don't fear his shotblocking.

Bam Adebayo, who will get a fair amount of consideration for DPOY, averaged less than 1 bpg!! In fact the Miami Heat are dead last in BPG, but are a top 4 defense. Draymond Green lead GS with 1.1 bpg and he missed significant time. The next closest person was Wiggins with 0.7 blocks. Ayton also comes in at a 0.7 bpg.

But those are your top 4 defensive teams by opponent fg% and defensive rating; Boston, Golden State, Phoenix & Miami. The Pistons averaged more bpg than all of them except for Boston. What they have are mobile, versatile defenders with high bball IQ's who are committed to that end of the floor and are able to switch.

I get that it's a sexy stat and we've all been raised to believe that shotblocking is foundational to good defense. But the truth may be that while it's still valuable, it's not of the same importance that it once was. I think it can be easy to view shotblocking as a sort of panacea for bad perimeter defense. Don't like how easily guards get into the paint? Add more shotblocking!!

I'm not saying it's trash or has no value. It's obvious that being able to deter driving players, make things more difficult & erase mistakes is still important. I'd rather have good shotblocking than not. But maybe it's time to come off guys like Mitchell Robinson a bit and recognize that more well rounded players can have just as much if not more value to winning basketball.

Stopping dribble penetration & having good interior defenders are definitely important, I'm just not sure how intrinsically linked shotblocking is to that anymore. Robinson might cover up some defensive deficiencies at other positions, but it might be a case of treating the symptom instead of the underlying cause.

tldr; get off Robinson - he's not the upgrade you think he is. Improve your defense by improving your bad defenders (CoJo, Bey, etc), not by trying to replace the one starter who actually plays good D.


Who might this be?


Stewart

I would agree that Robinson isn't actually a defensive upgrade over Stewart, I think the idea with Robinson is that he can give you similar level defense to Stew while also being a big time lob threat and vertical spacer in ways that Stew can't be.

Whether thats worth the upgrade, I'm not sure yet
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Re: Is shot blocking overrated? 

Post#7 » by vic » Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:31 am

1 Positioning
2. Steals ( Anticipation)
3. Rebounding
4. Blocks (vertical timing)

I agree that blocking shots is the least important factor in defense because it doesn't guarantee possession of the ball - but the reason you still want elite shotblocking is because of the shots that it prevents the opponent from even trying to take because you have a shotblocker on that section of the court. It shrinks the court for the offense.
You need 2-way wings, 2-way shooting bigs, and you can't allow low iq players on the court. Assist/turnover ratio is crucial. Shooting point guards are icing on the cake IF they are plus defenders.
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Re: Is shot blocking overrated? 

Post#8 » by Cowology » Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:35 am

FloridaMan78 wrote:
Laimbeer wrote:
Cowology wrote:This may sound controversial, but I'm starting to believe that in the new NBA that shot-blocking isn't as important anymore.

Look at the top rated defense this past season - the Boston Celtics. Sure Williams averaged a little over 2 per game, but that's actually a relatively small number compared to defensive C's of years past and isn't exactly dominant. You don't fear his shotblocking.

Bam Adebayo, who will get a fair amount of consideration for DPOY, averaged less than 1 bpg!! In fact the Miami Heat are dead last in BPG, but are a top 4 defense. Draymond Green lead GS with 1.1 bpg and he missed significant time. The next closest person was Wiggins with 0.7 blocks. Ayton also comes in at a 0.7 bpg.

But those are your top 4 defensive teams by opponent fg% and defensive rating; Boston, Golden State, Phoenix & Miami. The Pistons averaged more bpg than all of them except for Boston. What they have are mobile, versatile defenders with high bball IQ's who are committed to that end of the floor and are able to switch.

I get that it's a sexy stat and we've all been raised to believe that shotblocking is foundational to good defense. But the truth may be that while it's still valuable, it's not of the same importance that it once was. I think it can be easy to view shotblocking as a sort of panacea for bad perimeter defense. Don't like how easily guards get into the paint? Add more shotblocking!!

I'm not saying it's trash or has no value. It's obvious that being able to deter driving players, make things more difficult & erase mistakes is still important. I'd rather have good shotblocking than not. But maybe it's time to come off guys like Mitchell Robinson a bit and recognize that more well rounded players can have just as much if not more value to winning basketball.

Stopping dribble penetration & having good interior defenders are definitely important, I'm just not sure how intrinsically linked shotblocking is to that anymore. Robinson might cover up some defensive deficiencies at other positions, but it might be a case of treating the symptom instead of the underlying cause.

tldr; get off Robinson - he's not the upgrade you think he is. Improve your defense by improving your bad defenders (CoJo, Bey, etc), not by trying to replace the one starter who actually plays good D.


Who might this be?


I’m guessing Stewart, who IMO is a good defender. I imagine it more of a continuation of the defense throughout the game. Split time between both. I like Robinson starting because he’s a better finisher inside with Cade feeding him.

The game has changed, but blocked shots are still important. Good shot blockers can be good lane defenders if they can also be good rebounders and good positional defenders.

Robinson/Stewart essentially concedes any real offensive threat from the C position and severely limits what other players you are able to have on the floor. Hayes/Diallo/Stewart for example is a disaster waiting to happen. You'd be better off playing either Stew OR Robinson closer to 32-36 minutes and then still having Bagley or Olynyk as an offensive threat off the bench. If you want another defensive big that's the role of your 11th/12th man at the end of the bench who is used more situationally (foul trouble, certain matchups etc).

This focus on having a defense only guy at C for 48 mpg is not wise. Again, look at successful teams around the league and try to find that model. BOS & MEM are sorta there, but they also feature strong defensive play up & down the their rosters along with a 30 ppg scorers and you can easily make the case that somebody like Williams gives significantly more than a player like Robinson.
And neither team has actually won anything. Phx, Mia, GS, Mil, Phi, Dal etc are all getting actual production from the C position, or going smaller.

Stop locking yourself into this early 2000's model. You need to be able to score. Offenses are too good and too perimeter oriented. You can't play 4 on 5 for 48 minutes unless that 5th guy is exceptional. Robinson/Stewart are not. They are both solid part-time starters or capable backups who offer a limiting redundancy in their deficiencies.
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Re: Is shot blocking overrated? 

Post#9 » by bstein14 » Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:40 am

100% Stewart has been our best defender this season.... Diallo possibly second and Hayes/Grant third/fourth. In less time of course, but also was impressed with Livers' defense.

And of course, shot blocking can be very misleading. Same with steals. You can try to block everything that goes up and have a good number of blocks but also bite on a ton of pumpfakes and not really move your feet well defensively.

I think Mitchell Robinson is an above average defender for sure, but Stewart is at a similar level inside and also has better lateral quickness on the perimeter.

Here's a look at some of the best "rim protectors" in the NBA taking into account defensive FG% allowed inside 6 feet as well as some other factors and Beef Stew ranks as a better "rim protector" than Robinson as well. It's actually crazy how similar their stats are.

Stew (Age 20) 25.6 MPG 53.3% allowed inside 6 ft
Robinson (Age 23) 25.7 MPG 53.9% allowed inside 6ft
-----

According to the numbers, these were the 3 best "rim protectors" in the league this season.
1. Jarret Allen (Age 23) 48.6% allowed inside 6 ft
2. Jarren Jackson Jr (Age 22) 49.6% allowed inside 6 ft
3. Rudy Gobert (Age 29) 50.7% allowed inside 6ft
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Re: Is shot blocking overrated? 

Post#10 » by Cowology » Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:48 am

bstein14 wrote:100% Stewart has been our best defender this season.... Diallo possibly second and Hayes/Grant third/fourth. In less time of course, but also was impressed with Livers' defense.

And of course, shot blocking can be very misleading. Same with steals. You can try to block everything that goes up and have a good number of blocks but also bite on a ton of pumpfakes and not really move your feet well defensively.

I think Mitchell Robinson is an above average defender for sure, but Stewart is at a similar level inside and also has better lateral quickness on the perimeter.

Here's a look at some of the best "rim protectors" in the NBA taking into account defensive FG% allowed inside 6 feet as well as some other factors and Beef Stew ranks as a better "rim protector" than Robinson as well. It's actually crazy how similar their stats are.

Stew (Age 20) 25.6 MPG 53.3% allowed inside 6 ft
Robinson (Age 23) 25.7 MPG 53.9% allowed inside 6ft
-----

According to the numbers, these were the 3 best "rim protectors" in the league this season.
1. Jarret Allen (Age 23) 48.6% allowed inside 6 ft
2. Jarren Jackson Jr (Age 22) 49.6% allowed inside 6 ft
3. Rudy Gobert (Age 29) 50.7% allowed inside 6ft
Right, so IF we want to improve our defense... why look to "upgrade" Stew to Robinson, instead of focusing on addressing actual weakness?? Robinson brings a different element, but doesn't drastically improve our situation any. The return investment is NOT what people think it will be.

If you want to get better defensively, then start by addressing the crappy perimeter defense, ie; CoJo & Bey.

Adjust your defensive scheme in year 2. Work with the young guys and make it more of an emphasis. There are more impactful things we can be doing than running a non offensive threat in the middle for 48 minutes. There are reasons neither of these guys play more than 25 mpg. If either team wanted 48 minutes of the same thing they be getting more minutes!! Their limited by their own limitations.
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Re: Is shot blocking overrated? 

Post#11 » by FloridaMan78 » Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:58 am

Cowology wrote:
FloridaMan78 wrote:
Laimbeer wrote:
Who might this be?


I’m guessing Stewart, who IMO is a good defender. I imagine it more of a continuation of the defense throughout the game. Split time between both. I like Robinson starting because he’s a better finisher inside with Cade feeding him.

The game has changed, but blocked shots are still important. Good shot blockers can be good lane defenders if they can also be good rebounders and good positional defenders.

Robinson/Stewart essentially concedes any real offensive threat from the C position and severely limits what other players you are able to have on the floor. Hayes/Diallo/Stewart for example is a disaster waiting to happen. You'd be better off playing either Stew OR Robinson closer to 32-36 minutes and then still having Bagley or Olynyk as an offensive threat off the bench. If you want another defensive big that's the role of your 11th/12th man at the end of the bench who is used more situationally (foul trouble, certain matchups etc).

This focus on having a defense only guy at C for 48 mpg is not wise. Again, look at successful teams around the league and try to find that model. BOS & MEM are sorta there, but they also feature strong defensive play up & down the their rosters along with a 30 ppg scorers and you can easily make the case that somebody like Williams gives significantly more than a player like Robinson.
And neither team has actually won anything. Phx, Mia, GS, Mil, Phi, Dal etc are all getting actual production from the C position, or going smaller.

Stop locking yourself into this early 2000's model. You need to be able to score. Offenses are too good and too perimeter oriented. You can't play 4 on 5 for 48 minutes unless that 5th guy is exceptional. Robinson/Stewart are not. They are both solid part-time starters or capable backups who offer a limiting redundancy in their deficiencies.


I disagree. I think Robinson can be a real threat with Cade feeding him the ball like he has with Bagley. Robinson hasn’t had a point guard setting him up his whole time in New York. He only dunks, but he dunks at a ridiculous 72fg% compared to Stewart’s 50fg%

I agree that Hayes/Diallo/Stewart lineup would be horrendous, and don’t think it would be hard to make sure that doesn’t happen with Cade, or Brunson or a draft pick always there instead.

I like the idea of a really good interior defense but can understand if others don’t and would like a more offensive option.
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Re: Is shot blocking overrated? 

Post#12 » by Cowology » Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:09 am

The ONLY thing Robinson can do is dunk. He has no offensive game at all. He's an Andre Drummond level FT shooter (sub 500). Stewart is definitely a worse outlet for Cade around the rim, but he's showing continued improvement in his outside shot and is a much better FT shooter. Again, it's a lateral move. You are swapping one thing for another without drastically improving the team.

Upgrades are all about IMPACT. Where can you see the most significant gain? Even IF you believe that Robinson is better... how much better? And how does that compare to the upgrade you can achieve at a greater position of need? It's a weakest link situation. Stop focusing on upgrading a non-problem and instead start looking at the root cause of the breakdowns and work on addressing those.

It's no different than any other business model in that regard. You look for what is going to drive the largest increase in production. Robinson over Stewart is the practical antithesis of that. It's investing resources on marginality.
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Re: Is shot blocking overrated? 

Post#13 » by bstein14 » Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:22 am

Cowology wrote:The ONLY thing Robinson can do is dunk. He has no offensive game at all. He's an Andre Drummond level FT shooter (sub 500). Stewart is definitely a worse outlet for Cade around the rim, but he's showing continued improvement in his outside shot and is a much better FT shooter. Again, it's a lateral move. You are swapping one thing for another without drastically improving the team.

Upgrades are all about IMPACT. Where can you see the most significant gain? Even IF you believe that Robinson is better... how much better? And how does that compare to the upgrade you can achieve at a greater position of need? It's a weakest link situation. Stop focusing on upgrading a non-problem and instead start looking at the root cause of the breakdowns and work on addressing those.

It's no different than any other business model in that regard. You look for what is going to drive the largest increase in production. Robinson over Stewart is the practical antithesis of that. It's investing resources on marginality.


I mostly agree. Robinson is young enough you hope he can bring a bit more than he's shown and get better, but his impact is possibly not there as a real difference maker for the team for the $$ he makes.

I tend to agree, with Cade and Bey starting, we want a defensive minded player that is between 6'3" and 6'8" that can guard the opposing teams best 1/2/3 to take that job off of Bey/Cade. That's probably the ideal upgrade for me. On offense, you really want that guy to be able to shoot threes to open up the floor for Cade. Mikal Bridges would have been perfect for us. 6'6" and quick but a 7'`1" wingspan and elite defender that also hits threes at a high %. Went to Villanova like Bey. It's a shame he took 4 years and $90 million extension I actually like him better for our team than Ayton and would have easily given him a MAX offer this summer.

That said, I can understand why Weaver is mostly looking for a center that is not going to take up too much cap and is someone that could split time with Stewart. 24 MPG of high energy basketball out of both your bigs can be a great thing and then if one starts to improve you can always shift a few extra minutes their way. I wouldn't hate the Robinson pickup at all, but I can understand wanting one of our centers to also be a bit better on the offensive end.... having two guys that are too similar might not make for the best mix.
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Re: Is shot blocking overrated? 

Post#14 » by Cowology » Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:54 am

IF somebody really wants Robinson, then I'd say play him 30+ mpg and move Stewart. Run Bagley back as your 4/5 backup. Then you've either got Grant at the 4 spot or possibly Jabari/Chet. Heck, I'm not even sold on Bey at this point and I think a good argument can be made for sliding Grant down to the 3-spot. Grant/Jabari/Robinson for example would be sorta interesting.

Alternatively if you really want to upgrade the C spot then just bite the bullet and go all in on Ayton. I don't think he's worth the max, but at least he represents a serious upgrade and at this point I'd rather see us do that than overspend on Robinson.

NY has Robinsons bird rights and can still match whatever offer you throw out there. They actually have a low cap figure relative to the rest of the league and they've never had any problem overpaying for mediocre bigs. In fact if any team in the league is going to overpay for mediocre bigs it's probably the Knicks.

In other words, we'd have to throw a contract at Robinson that would be too obscene even for the Knicks. Let that sink in. For a marginal upgrade at best!
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Re: Is shot blocking overrated? 

Post#15 » by Southern Piston » Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:07 am

I don’t have interest in Robinson at all, Brunson a little
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Re: Is shot blocking overrated? 

Post#16 » by FloridaMan78 » Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:21 am

Cowology wrote:IF somebody really wants Robinson, then I'd say play him 30+ mpg and move Stewart. Run Bagley back as your 4/5 backup. Then you've either got Grant at the 4 spot or possibly Jabari/Chet. Heck, I'm not even sold on Bey at this point and I think a good argument can be made for sliding Grant down to the 3-spot. Grant/Jabari/Robinson for example would be sorta interesting.

Alternatively if you really want to upgrade the C spot then just bite the bullet and go all in on Ayton. I don't think he's worth the max, but at least he represents a serious upgrade and at this point I'd rather see us do that than overspend on Robinson.

NY has Robinsons bird rights and can still match whatever offer you throw out there. They actually have a low cap figure relative to the rest of the league and they've never had any problem overpaying for mediocre bigs. In fact if any team in the league is going to overpay for mediocre bigs it's probably the Knicks.

In other words, we'd have to throw a contract at Robinson that would be too obscene even for the Knicks. Let that sink in. For a marginal upgrade at best!


Robinson is unrestricted and the most New York can offer him is 5 years 55 mil. Most are projecting 12-13 mil, similar to what Olynyk got last year.
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Re: Is shot blocking overrated? 

Post#17 » by Cowology » Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:25 am

FloridaMan78 wrote:
Cowology wrote:IF somebody really wants Robinson, then I'd say play him 30+ mpg and move Stewart. Run Bagley back as your 4/5 backup. Then you've either got Grant at the 4 spot or possibly Jabari/Chet. Heck, I'm not even sold on Bey at this point and I think a good argument can be made for sliding Grant down to the 3-spot. Grant/Jabari/Robinson for example would be sorta interesting.

Alternatively if you really want to upgrade the C spot then just bite the bullet and go all in on Ayton. I don't think he's worth the max, but at least he represents a serious upgrade and at this point I'd rather see us do that than overspend on Robinson.

NY has Robinsons bird rights and can still match whatever offer you throw out there. They actually have a low cap figure relative to the rest of the league and they've never had any problem overpaying for mediocre bigs. In fact if any team in the league is going to overpay for mediocre bigs it's probably the Knicks.

In other words, we'd have to throw a contract at Robinson that would be too obscene even for the Knicks. Let that sink in. For a marginal upgrade at best!


Robinson is unrestricted and the most New York can offer him is 5 years 55 mil. Most are projecting 12-13 mil, similar to what Olynyk got last year.

Hmm, for some reason I was thinking he was RFA. Regardless, still wouldn't do it.
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Re: Is shot blocking overrated? 

Post#18 » by Manocad » Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:34 am

Interesting question since a lack of interior defense--which leads to/includes shot blocking--is absolutely one of this team's biggest needs.
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Re: Is shot blocking overrated? 

Post#19 » by Cowology » Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:51 am

Manocad wrote:Interesting question since a lack of interior defense--which leads to/includes shot blocking--is absolutely one of this team's biggest needs.

How much of that need is created by our inability to defend on the perimeter? How much is created by us switching smaller guards onto bigs?

Interior defense isn't just about shot blocking; it's about being able to execute man coverage, rotate and help according to scheme. Do a better job of stopping people at the point of attack, rather then trying to react once they've already penetrated our defense.

Reducing the need can be just as effective (or more) as trying to address the need.
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Re: Is shot blocking overrated? 

Post#20 » by Scout Taron » Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:14 am

Cowology wrote:
Manocad wrote:Interesting question since a lack of interior defense--which leads to/includes shot blocking--is absolutely one of this team's biggest needs.

How much of that need is created by our inability to defend on the perimeter? How much is created by us switching smaller guards onto bigs?

Interior defense isn't just about shot blocking; it's about being able to execute man coverage, rotate and help according to scheme. Do a better job of stopping people at the point of attack, rather then trying to react once they've already penetrated our defense.

Reducing the need can be just as effective (or more) as trying to address the need.


One thing that's missed here is that the Pistons switch basically every screen... A major reason for that is that Stewart is not effective playing drop coverage due to his lack of size. Switching every ball screen is going to make defending at the point of attack more difficult since you're intentionally allowing the opponent to dictate the mismatches they want. I generally tend to like switching if you have the personnel for it, but it's worth keeping in mind that the reason the Pistons are so dependent on it is because they are trying to make up for Stewart's deficiencies, and thus make the game harder on their perimeter defenders.

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