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Strangely Kemba Walker still hasn't been officially bought out by Detroit. When the trade was first announced it was immediately reported that the Pistons would work to buy him out so he could sign elsewhere. I'm wondering what the deal is. You'd assume he would want to be bought out as quickly as possible so he can sign with another team. One thing to remember is that Kemba has the same agent as Cade, Bagley III, and Olynyk. The fact that he's still currently a Piston would lead me to believe one of the following is true.

1. We're just dragging our feet a bit on making it official, but he'll be bought out any day now and sign with another team.

2. Kemba's agent has found out that the FA market is really weak for his client and he might not even get a vet minimum deal guaranteed.

3. Weaver is holding onto his contract temporarily just to see if anything else materializes in which we could facilitate a trade of Kemba to another team. Perhaps still getting him to his destination of choice while also taking back a bigger contract and an asset.

4. Kemba is considering actually staying and playing with Detroit to start this season to try and perhaps up his value around the league for his next contract since he's still just 32.

My guess is #1.

bstein14 wrote:Strangely Kemba Walker still hasn't been officially bought out by Detroit. When the trade was first announced it was immediately reported that the Pistons would work to buy him out so he could sign elsewhere. I'm wondering what the deal is. You'd assume he would want to be bought out as quickly as possible so he can sign with another team. One thing to remember is that Kemba has the same agent as Cade, Bagley III, and Olynyk. The fact that he's still currently a Piston would lead me to believe one of the following is true.

1. We're just dragging our feet a bit on making it official, but he'll be bought out any day now and sign with another team.

2. Kemba's agent has found out that the FA market is really weak for his client and he might not even get a vet minimum deal guaranteed.

3. Weaver is holding onto his contract temporarily just to see if anything else materializes in which we could facilitate a trade of Kemba to another team. Perhaps still getting him to his destination of choice while also taking back a bigger contract and an asset.

4. Kemba is considering actually staying and playing with Detroit to start this season to try and perhaps up his value around the league for his next contract since he's still just 32.

It’s almost definitely 1. But if we could’ve got a team to take on Joseph, I wouldn’t have minded Walker being the veteran backup for a year. There’s no one worth bringing in free agency and Saben as the backup would be bad. And not like “a good way to tank bad” either, like “Sixers-the process” bad.

I would much rather hold onto Walker, and utilize him as the 4th PG then Cojo, that's for damn sure. It doesn't matter as he's an expiring contract as well.

It depends on how successful Weaver and Casey feel the team is going to be this year. If they are starting to think like I am;

"Could this be a Cavs/Memphis year for the team?"

Then you keep him, and try and move Cojo/Olynyk for whatever.

Cade/Hayes/Walker
Ivey/Burks/Walker
Bey/Diallo/Livers
Stewart/Bagley/Key/Livers
Duren/Stewart/Bagley/Noel

There has to be some kind of move here. Keeping Olynyk is absurd. There is no room for him, and maybe moving Cojo would be easier if he's packaged with Olynyk.

Just spit-balling here. The Pistons have log-jams, amd it's time to start moving some pieces out.

zeebneeb wrote:I would much rather hold onto Walker, and utilize him as the 4th PG then Cojo, that's for damn sure. It doesn't matter as he's an expiring contract as well.

It depends on how successful Weaver and Casey feel the team is going to be this year. If they are starting to think like I am;

"Could this be a Cavs/Memphis year for the team?"

Then you keep him, and try and move Cojo/Olynyk for whatever.

Cade/Hayes/Walker
Ivey/Burks/Walker
Bey/Diallo/Livers
Stewart/Bagley/Key/Livers
Duren/Stewart/Bagley/Noel

There has to be some kind of move here. Keeping Olynyk is absurd. There is no room for him, and maybe moving Cojo would be easier if he's packaged with Olynyk.

Just spit-balling here. The Pistons have log-jams, amd it's time to start moving some pieces out.

If they keep Walker then thats probably the end of the Hayes saga. As a coach your probably gonna play Kemba as a sixth man over Hayes

I don't know. There's probably always been a gap between these things becoming official and them being reported on, particularly in the early phases of a long offseason (which this is the first normal length offseason we've had in a few years). We've just never really paid attention to it.

The trade involving Kemba only became official right before SL started.

MotownMadness wrote:

zeebneeb wrote:I would much rather hold onto Walker, and utilize him as the 4th PG then Cojo, that's for damn sure. It doesn't matter as he's an expiring contract as well.

It depends on how successful Weaver and Casey feel the team is going to be this year. If they are starting to think like I am;

"Could this be a Cavs/Memphis year for the team?"

Then you keep him, and try and move Cojo/Olynyk for whatever.

Cade/Hayes/Walker
Ivey/Burks/Walker
Bey/Diallo/Livers
Stewart/Bagley/Key/Livers
Duren/Stewart/Bagley/Noel

There has to be some kind of move here. Keeping Olynyk is absurd. There is no room for him, and maybe moving Cojo would be easier if he's packaged with Olynyk.

Just spit-balling here. The Pistons have log-jams, amd it's time to start moving some pieces out.

If they keep Walker then thats probably the end of the Hayes saga. As a coach your probably gonna play Kemba as a sixth man over Hayes

No way they keep a 32 year old Walker, and then move 20 year old Hayes. That would make no sense at all. I mean it would honestly be backwards.

Kemba is a good spot minutes player now, nothing more, and certainly not a 6th man type with his horrific defense, and size.

Cojo minutes is what is the deal here.

zeebneeb wrote:

MotownMadness wrote:

zeebneeb wrote:I would much rather hold onto Walker, and utilize him as the 4th PG then Cojo, that's for damn sure. It doesn't matter as he's an expiring contract as well.

It depends on how successful Weaver and Casey feel the team is going to be this year. If they are starting to think like I am;

"Could this be a Cavs/Memphis year for the team?"

Then you keep him, and try and move Cojo/Olynyk for whatever.

Cade/Hayes/Walker
Ivey/Burks/Walker
Bey/Diallo/Livers
Stewart/Bagley/Key/Livers
Duren/Stewart/Bagley/Noel

There has to be some kind of move here. Keeping Olynyk is absurd. There is no room for him, and maybe moving Cojo would be easier if he's packaged with Olynyk.

Just spit-balling here. The Pistons have log-jams, amd it's time to start moving some pieces out.

If they keep Walker then thats probably the end of the Hayes saga. As a coach your probably gonna play Kemba as a sixth man over Hayes

No way they keep a 32 year old Walker, and then move 20 year old Hayes. That would make no sense at all. I mean it would honestly be backwards.

Kemba is a good spot minutes player now, nothing more, and certainly not a 6th man type with his horrific defense, and size.

Cojo minutes is what is the deal here.

I agree it makes no sense for a GM to do in our position but if your putting him on the roster hes still better then Hayes more than likely and a coach is gonna go that direction.

I mean if he's stealing CoJos mins then thats the scrub who took Hayes starting gig.

I reckon it may come down to which would you rather have on this team, Cojo or Kemba. Money is not a factor so pick one.

MotownMadness wrote:

zeebneeb wrote:

MotownMadness wrote: If they keep Walker then thats probably the end of the Hayes saga. As a coach your probably gonna play Kemba as a sixth man over Hayes

No way they keep a 32 year old Walker, and then move 20 year old Hayes. That would make no sense at all. I mean it would honestly be backwards.

Kemba is a good spot minutes player now, nothing more, and certainly not a 6th man type with his horrific defense, and size.

Cojo minutes is what is the deal here.

I agree it makes no sense for a GM to do in our position but if your putting him on the roster hes still better then Hayes more than likely and a coach is gonna go that direction.

As much has been made about Hayes, he is still going to play around 30mpg this year. Whoever that 4th gaurd is, is going to be used sparingly, so in the end it doesn't matter all that much.

I mean that comes from Casey himself when discussing the three gaurd lineups he wants to use.

One thing that both Hayes haters and supporters can agree on, this looks like Killians year to prove it. Now whether that's right or wrong can be debated, but that's the word, and feeling around the team, and I hope he plays well because his size and defense at the position is great, and it would suck to lose that.

I look at Atlantas backcourt now, and I see the Pistons backcourt just feasting on that, and size is a huge component of it.

6'7
6'5
6'4

Thats a big damn gaurd rotation, and if Ivey is good defensively as well, man it looks great. Adding in Kemba as a wrinkle here and there is better then Cojo the crab dribbler.

zeebneeb wrote:

MotownMadness wrote:

zeebneeb wrote:No way they keep a 32 year old Walker, and then move 20 year old Hayes. That would make no sense at all. I mean it would honestly be backwards.

Kemba is a good spot minutes player now, nothing more, and certainly not a 6th man type with his horrific defense, and size.

Cojo minutes is what is the deal here.

I agree it makes no sense for a GM to do in our position but if your putting him on the roster hes still better then Hayes more than likely and a coach is gonna go that direction.

As much has been made about Hayes, he is still going to play around 30mpg this year. Whoever that 4th gaurd is, is going to be used sparingly, so in the end it doesn't matter all that much.

I mean that comes from Casey himself when discussing the three gaurd lineups he wants to use.

One thing that both Hayes haters and supporters can agree on, this looks like Killians year to prove it. Now whether that's right or wrong can be debated, but that's the word, and feeling around the team, and I hope he plays well because his size and defense at the position is great, and it would suck to lose that.

I look at Atlantas backcourt now, and I see the Pistons backcourt just feasting on that, and size is a huge component of it.

6'7
6'5
6'4

Thats a big damn gaurd rotation, and if Ivey is good defensively as well, man it looks great. Adding in Kemba as a wrinkle here and there is better then Cojo the crab dribbler.

Im definitely with your vision but Hayes still lost his starting position to a guy like CoJo with no future here. Now Cojo lost his spot to Ivey in the starting lineup. Now theres going to be competition for bench mins in a hypothetical scenario of keeping Walker.

But its all nothing cause Walker isn't gonna be playing here

MotownMadness wrote:

zeebneeb wrote:

MotownMadness wrote: I agree it makes no sense for a GM to do in our position but if your putting him on the roster hes still better then Hayes more than likely and a coach is gonna go that direction.

As much has been made about Hayes, he is still going to play around 30mpg this year. Whoever that 4th gaurd is, is going to be used sparingly, so in the end it doesn't matter all that much.

I mean that comes from Casey himself when discussing the three gaurd lineups he wants to use.

One thing that both Hayes haters and supporters can agree on, this looks like Killians year to prove it. Now whether that's right or wrong can be debated, but that's the word, and feeling around the team, and I hope he plays well because his size and defense at the position is great, and it would suck to lose that.

I look at Atlantas backcourt now, and I see the Pistons backcourt just feasting on that, and size is a huge component of it.

6'7
6'5
6'4

Thats a big damn gaurd rotation, and if Ivey is good defensively as well, man it looks great. Adding in Kemba as a wrinkle here and there is better then Cojo the crab dribbler.

Im definitely with your vision but Hayes still lost his starting position to a guy like CoJo with no future here. Now Cojo lost his spot to Ivey in the starting lineup. Now theres going to be competition for bench mins in a hypothetical scenario of keeping Walker.

But its all nothing cause Walker isn't gonna be playing here

That I'll agree on, the odds are quite slim Walker sticks around.

I hope at this time next year we are not talking about Hayes, CoJo or Walker

Sure, if Killion can find a jump shot, that would change dramatically, but I'm not holding my breath. Kemba would be an assistant coach more than a player for this team - no reason for him to steal minutes from our future. CoJo is good but way out of our timeline. I think we should be able to find a 3rd guard (championship team worthy 3rd guard) assuming Hayes continues his shooting issues. But we can fill that next year along with sorting out our front court.

It makes zero sense to play Cade/Ivey & Killian together in a 3 guard lineup unless Killian can catch and shoot the ball. Killian isn't an off the ball player right now. He was much better and more productive when he moved to the bench and got the ball back in his hands. It makes zero sense for us as a franchise to take the ball out of Cade/Ivey's hands and put the ball into Killian's hands when all three are out there together.

If anything, I'd rather see Ivey get to the the guy with the ball in his hands exclusively while Cade rests in games and Ivey is still in there. We should be working on developing our young backcourt with star potential... not handicapping them by playing them with Hayes.

That said, if he can start catching and shooting 3s from the corner at an efficient rate, by all means play the three of those guys together.

Despite being gifted a starting role each of his 2 seasons Killian Hayes only played 25.8 Minutes per game as a rookie, and 25 MPG last season. Now he has Ivey and Burks in the backcourt equation to contend with. Other than Saben Lee, its not hard to make a case that Hayes is the worst guard on the roster.

Cade/Cojo/Hayes/Lee
Ivey/Burks/Diallo

Burks is going to be the first guard off the bench, and if Cojo is in the rotation at all that further eats into available minutes for Hayes. Of course most of us would prefer Cojo not be in the rotation, but obviously Dwane Casey does not see it that way.

Assuming backcourt health, I can easily see Killian being MUCH closer to a 15 MPG guy than a 30 MPG guy.

thesack12 wrote:Assuming backcourt health, I can easily see Killian being MUCH closer to a 15 MPG guy than a 30 MPG guy.

Agreed. No way does Killian average 5 more minutes per game in a backup role than he did in previous years starting the majority of games. We've added Ivey and Burks to our rotation. I see 15-25mpg.

There's certainly going to be more competition for bench spots this year, and from the sounds of the press conference having more depth is by design.

Two of CoJo, Hayes, Diallo, Burks, Livers won't be in the rotation. You're likely looking at 14 to 20 MPG backups for those 3 spots and you've got 5 players wanting minutes there.

SF:Bey/
SG:Ivey/
PG:Cade/

treefi wrote:

thesack12 wrote:Assuming backcourt health, I can easily see Killian being MUCH closer to a 15 MPG guy than a 30 MPG guy.

Agreed. No way does Killian average 5 more minutes per game in a backup role than he did in previous years starting the majority of games. We've added Ivey and Burks to our rotation. I see 15-25mpg.

25 is much closer to 30 than to 15. Just sayin'.

I doubt Killian is competing for bench minutes against anyone. He lost his starting job and rightfully so, but he's 20 years old and still under contract this season. I expect that he'll be the primary PG of the bench, which he was last year, and Burks will be the primary SG off the bench. So basically I'd expect to see Killian coming in for Cade and Burks coming in for Ivey. There is no logical reason to think that Killian is competing with Cojo for minutes. "But what if Cojo plays better?" IT DOESN'T MATTER. He's not part of the long term picture while Killian still has a shot at it. This is another development season, not a "put the best lineup on the floor and win as many games as possible season." Weaver's offseason moves have made that abundantly clear.

"I don't want to have to watch Hayes play anymore" or "So-and-so is better" are not logical arguments as to why Killian shouldn't still get 20-25 minutes while playing off the bench this season. A lot of people keep saying that Killian better step it up this season or he should be cut loose--WE ALL AGREE ON THAT. There's no reason to keep carrying on about it when he's going to play this season, period. If he sucks the whole year then by all means, start screaming your asses off at the end of the season; I'm certain most of us would join in.

Manocad wrote:

treefi wrote:

thesack12 wrote:Assuming backcourt health, I can easily see Killian being MUCH closer to a 15 MPG guy than a 30 MPG guy.

Agreed. No way does Killian average 5 more minutes per game in a backup role than he did in previous years starting the majority of games. We've added Ivey and Burks to our rotation. I see 15-25mpg.

25 is much closer to 30 than to 15. Just sayin'.

I doubt Killian is competing for bench minutes against anyone. He lost his starting job and rightfully so, but he's 20 years old and still under contract this season. I expect that he'll be the primary PG of the bench, which he was last year, and Burks will be the primary SG off the bench. So basically I'd expect to see Killian coming in for Cade and Burks coming in for Ivey. There is no logical reason to think that Killian is competing with Cojo for minutes. "But what if Cojo plays better?" IT DOESN'T MATTER. He's not part of the long term picture while Killian still has a shot at it. This is another development season, not a "put the best lineup on the floor and win as many games as possible season." Weaver's offseason moves have made that abundantly clear.

"I don't want to have to watch Hayes play anymore" or "So-and-so is better" are not logical arguments as to why Killian shouldn't still get 20-25 minutes while playing off the bench this season. A lot of people keep saying that Killian better step it up this season or he should be cut loose--WE ALL AGREE ON THAT. There's no reason to keep carrying on about it when he's going to play this season, period. If he sucks the whole year then by all means, start screaming your asses off at the end of the season; I'm certain most of us would join in.

I see where you're coming from, and it very well may be the case.... Killian might just be gifted the backup role even if he's not the best man for the job currently... because Weaver wants to see him play and see how he will do.

That said, my preference would be that we go into training camp with the mindset that no one's minutes are guaranteed and that everything needs to be earned this season. I think that competition and often bring out the best in people versus the idea that someone feels like they should be getting minutes but a lesser player is playing over them.

I think 3rd year guys like Stewart and Bey are likely tired of losing. Same goes for Cade. I think the ideal scenario is to play whoever comes out and earns those minutes and who Casey thinks gives us the best chance of winning (perhaps it would be Hayes anyways) at least for the first month or two of the season..... Then, if it becomes clear we're a well below .500 team and not yet capable of being in competition for a playoff spot... you go ahead and first try to trade some vets but if there isn't a market you can agree to buyout terms with someone like CoJo, Burks, Noel or Olynyk (or heck even Diallo if he isn't in your plans for the following season).... But my preference and I'm sure the preference of some of the players on the team, would be to give it an all out effort starting the season out and see where we're at putting our best 10 guys on the floor.

bstein14 wrote:

Manocad wrote:

treefi wrote:
Agreed. No way does Killian average 5 more minutes per game in a backup role than he did in previous years starting the majority of games. We've added Ivey and Burks to our rotation. I see 15-25mpg.

25 is much closer to 30 than to 15. Just sayin'.

I doubt Killian is competing for bench minutes against anyone. He lost his starting job and rightfully so, but he's 20 years old and still under contract this season. I expect that he'll be the primary PG of the bench, which he was last year, and Burks will be the primary SG off the bench. So basically I'd expect to see Killian coming in for Cade and Burks coming in for Ivey. There is no logical reason to think that Killian is competing with Cojo for minutes. "But what if Cojo plays better?" IT DOESN'T MATTER. He's not part of the long term picture while Killian still has a shot at it. This is another development season, not a "put the best lineup on the floor and win as many games as possible season." Weaver's offseason moves have made that abundantly clear.

"I don't want to have to watch Hayes play anymore" or "So-and-so is better" are not logical arguments as to why Killian shouldn't still get 20-25 minutes while playing off the bench this season. A lot of people keep saying that Killian better step it up this season or he should be cut loose--WE ALL AGREE ON THAT. There's no reason to keep carrying on about it when he's going to play this season, period. If he sucks the whole year then by all means, start screaming your asses off at the end of the season; I'm certain most of us would join in.

I see where you're coming from, and it very well may be the case.... Killian might just be gifted the backup role even if he's not the best man for the job currently... because Weaver wants to see him play and see how he will do.

That said, my preference would be that we go into training camp with the mindset that no one's minutes are guaranteed and that everything needs to be earned this season. I think that competition and often bring out the best in people versus the idea that someone feels like they should be getting minutes but a lesser player is playing over them.

I think 3rd year guys like Stewart and Bey are likely tired of losing. Same goes for Cade. I think the ideal scenario is to play whoever comes out and earns those minutes and who Casey thinks gives us the best chance of winning (perhaps it would be Hayes anyways) at least for the first month or two of the season..... Then, if it becomes clear we're a well below .500 team and not yet capable of being in competition for a playoff spot... you go ahead and first try to trade some vets but if there isn't a market you can agree to buyout terms with someone like CoJo, Burks, Noel or Olynyk (or heck even Diallo if he isn't in your plans for the following season).... But my preference and I'm sure the preference of some of the players on the team, would be to give it an all out effort starting the season out and see where we're at putting our best 10 guys on the floor.

Unless it's Cojo. At no point should he be thinking that he should get the heavy minutes at backup PG. He's not part of the long term picture and I seriously doubt Casey or Weaver ever told him he was.