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He and his guests spend 15 minutes assessing the Pistons' off-season and outlook.

Odd. There was no criticism of Weaver completely failing in free agency or how the players are going to get tired of losing if a proper rebuilding process is followed.

Manocad wrote:Odd. There was no criticism of Weaver completely failing in free agency or how the players are going to get tired of losing if a proper rebuilding process is followed.

there was the familiar killian hate though. can’t win em all…

Manocad wrote:Odd. There was no criticism of Weaver completely failing in free agency or how the players are going to get tired of losing if a proper rebuilding process is followed.

They definitely say Killian has been terrible and bagley is overpaid tho.

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keepitrealhomes wrote:

Manocad wrote:Odd. There was no criticism of Weaver completely failing in free agency or how the players are going to get tired of losing if a proper rebuilding process is followed.

there was the familiar killian hate though. can’t win em all…

Yeah, the one guy called him "worthless" if I recall correctly. That's what 10 points in shooting percentage means to some people. If he was shooting 48%/36% no one would have any problem with him whatsoever. That's all it takes. Without that 10 points he's described as "worthless" in this case or as I saw on this board, having "zero offensive capability."

Then you've got the one guy saying that Bagley got paid $33 million more than he would have preferred. So tell me you're an idiot without telling me you're an idiot, bro.

mattao313 wrote:

Manocad wrote:Odd. There was no criticism of Weaver completely failing in free agency or how the players are going to get tired of losing if a proper rebuilding process is followed.

They definitely say Killian has been terrible and bagley is overpaid tho.

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When the overpay was stated as being $33 million on a $37.5 million contract you can just throw that opinion out the window. That's ridiculous.

mattao313 wrote:They definitely say Killian has been terrible and bagley is overpaid tho.

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And that the Pistons should have squeezed a 1st out of the Knicks in the Burks/Noel trade, all fair points by them btw.

I also don't think the Pistons will be as terrible as some of these guys seem to think. I just think Cade is THAT good, I expect him to be even better than the player that was starting to tear up the league to close last season. If he's healthy, I expect 32-35 wins with lots of close losses sprinkled in.

I pretty much agree with everything that was said in the video.

Bagley as a min player was unnecessarily harsh. He’d have gotten offers far better than that.

Killian is different, though. It’s not that he’s shooting 10% too low — it’s that he’s hesitant and often isn’t guarded, messing up everything else. One guy can firebomb your defense by getting picked on, and similarly, one guy can firebomb your offense by letting his guy play free safety.

As for not getting another 1st for taking Noel and Burks, I disagree. Burks has value on his own, and you aren’t getting a first for one year of NN at under 10 million (even if we somehow did for Kemba — that was a heist).

NYPiston wrote:

mattao313 wrote:They definitely say Killian has been terrible and bagley is overpaid tho.

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And that the Pistons should have squeezed a 1st out of the Knicks in the Burks/Noel trade, all fair points by them btw.

I also don't think the Pistons will be as terrible as some of these guys seem to think. I just think Cade is THAT good, I expect him to be even better than the player that was starting to tear up the league to close last season. If he's healthy, I expect 32-35 wins with lots of close losses sprinkled in.

Over/Under is 28.5, Vegas is usually pretty close.

Drwho17 wrote:

NYPiston wrote:

mattao313 wrote:They definitely say Killian has been terrible and bagley is overpaid tho.

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And that the Pistons should have squeezed a 1st out of the Knicks in the Burks/Noel trade, all fair points by them btw.

I also don't think the Pistons will be as terrible as some of these guys seem to think. I just think Cade is THAT good, I expect him to be even better than the player that was starting to tear up the league to close last season. If he's healthy, I expect 32-35 wins with lots of close losses sprinkled in.

Over/Under is 28.5, Vegas is usually pretty close.

Vegas had Cleveland at 26.5 last season and they won 44. Could we be that team or do we need one more year?

Manocad wrote:

mattao313 wrote:

Manocad wrote:Odd. There was no criticism of Weaver completely failing in free agency or how the players are going to get tired of losing if a proper rebuilding process is followed.

They definitely say Killian has been terrible and bagley is overpaid tho.

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Yeah, the one guy called him "worthless" if I recall correctly. That's what 10 points in shooting percentage means to some people. If he was shooting 48%/36% no one would have any problem with him whatsoever. That's all it takes. Without that 10 points he's described as "worthless" in this case or as I saw on this board, having "zero offensive capability."

Then you've got the one guy saying that Bagley got paid $33 million more than he would have preferred. So tell me you're an idiot without telling me you're an idiot, bro.

When the overpay was stated as being $33 million on a $37.5 million contract you can just throw that opinion out the window. That's ridiculous.

So media members know more than we do...unless you disagree with them. Do I have that right?

GreekAlex wrote:

Drwho17 wrote:

NYPiston wrote:
And that the Pistons should have squeezed a 1st out of the Knicks in the Burks/Noel trade, all fair points by them btw.

I also don't think the Pistons will be as terrible as some of these guys seem to think. I just think Cade is THAT good, I expect him to be even better than the player that was starting to tear up the league to close last season. If he's healthy, I expect 32-35 wins with lots of close losses sprinkled in.

Over/Under is 28.5, Vegas is usually pretty close.

Vegas had Cleveland at 26.5 last season and they won 44. Could we be that team or do we need one more year?

I definitely trust my bball IQ over Vegas. Adding an elite 2-way PF Evan Mobley to a team that the previous year added a rim protecting center and a defensive wing in Okoro and Jarrett Allen to a couple of already established scorers was definitely going to beat Vegas, and would have done even better without injuries.

That being said, the Pistons have a potential big jump from Cade and from last year’s injuries. But Jerami Grant was a big loss. The Pistons are going to depend on Beef Stew to replace the wing defense of Jerami Grant. Also Cade would have to be injury free, and Nerlens/Duren would have to replace the interior defense of Beef Stew.

The Pistons could definitely outperform Vegas odds but it ultimately depends on Beef Stew becoming a perimeter 3&D producer. Jaden Ivey is definitely going to bring an offensive spark, and Cade is going to continue his growth.

I got us at 35 wins

I listened to that the other day, and the thing that stuck out to me was the instance that Weaver could have gotten a 1st out of NY for Burks/Noel. I don't think so. Both of those players have utility, Noel is 28, and still a good 15-20mpg player, and Burks is already the Pistons best shooter, and just turned 31, not to mention, both are expiring contracts as well. Another part is that both of these players are super tradeable during the season, to some teams nearing the deadline next season. Ones a rim protector off the bench, the other a sniper, and again, both are expiring so if a team is desperate, they can swing a deal for either one/both for a first.

I'm not going to argue the Hayes angle anymore as it's boring, and certain folks round here mention him every chance they get, even in unrelated topics as they are obsessed with him.

It's interesting to see the national guys talking Pistons though, as it means that the franchise is relevant again, another feather in Weavers cap that some around here seem to forget.

Very likely no one was offering Bagley MLE, but of course we'll never know what, if any, other offers were out there. We might end up paying Bagley very similar to what Sexton signs for reportedly. Cavs doing it right by waiting it out on a player if there is no market for them. Say sure, go out and get an offer and we'll match it. Bagley was a gross overpay based on what he's done thus far.

I do agree Bagley was an overpay at 3/37.5. But that hyperbole that he was 33 mil overpaid (ie a min player) was unnecessary.

bstein14 wrote:Very likely no one was offering Bagley MLE, but of course we'll never know what, if any, other offers were out there. We might end up paying Bagley very similar to what Sexton signs for reportedly. Cavs doing it right by waiting it out on a player if there is no market for them. Say sure, go out and get an offer and we'll match it. Bagley was a gross overpay based on what he's done thus far.

If all sexton can get is 3/40 then bagley isn't just an overpay but a huge one.

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tmorgan wrote:I do agree Bagley was an overpay at 3/37.5. But that hyperbole that he was 33 mil overpaid (ie a min player) was unnecessary.

the trade compensation we gave the kings (2 future second rounders and expiring salary filler) is the trade value of a player much closer to a minimum salary than it is to a $12.5M player.

i think most teams would have gladly given up 2 future 2nds for the bird rights of an MLE-level player, but by all reports his trade market was bone dry. i think it's fair to conclude that bagley's value among other teams was definitely lower than MLE-level, which is what we paid him.

john hollinger has a BORD$ calculation that uses a series of metrics, factors in age, minutes, etc. and then gives a valuation of the player. it is not perfect but is fairly accurate. bagley's valuation was $3,205,016.

whitehops wrote:

tmorgan wrote:I do agree Bagley was an overpay at 3/37.5. But that hyperbole that he was 33 mil overpaid (ie a min player) was unnecessary.

the trade compensation we gave the kings (2 future second rounders and expiring salary filler) is the trade value of a player much closer to a minimum salary than it is to a $12.5M player.

i think most teams would have gladly given up 2 future 2nds for the bird rights of an MLE-level player, but by all reports his trade market was bone dry. i think it's fair to conclude that bagley's value among other teams was definitely lower than MLE-level, which is what we paid him.

john hollinger has a BORD$ calculation that uses a series of metrics, factors in age, minutes, etc. and then gives a valuation of the player. it is not perfect but is fairly accurate. bagley's valuation was $3,205,016.

So out of curiosity, what was Grant's when Weaver gave him his contract and this board freaked out?