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Pistons excercise options on Bey, Stewart, Hayes and Cunningham
Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:49 pm
by 440BB
We now know what Weaver was thinking about Hayes. A bit of a surprise he did it so soon.
Re: Pistons excercise options on Bey, Stewart, Hayes and Cunningham
Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:14 pm
by Cowology
As expected. *shrug*
Re: Pistons excercise options on Bey, Stewart, Hayes and Cunningham
Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:38 pm
by Billl
Not surprising. Even if you aren't sold on Killian, what are you going to do? He's gonna get another shot as a backup an see if he can build on the end of last season.
Re: Pistons excercise options on Bey, Stewart, Hayes and Cunningham
Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:54 pm
by Cowology
Billl wrote:Not surprising. Even if you aren't sold on Killian, what are you going to do? He's gonna get another shot as a backup an see if he can build on the end of last season.
Yeah, it was a low enough cost/risk ratio. The difference between him and somebody like Sekou is that Hayes has consistently displayed some legit NBA skills. He's solid defensively, rebounds well for his position and has great vision. He's easily the best passer on our team. He just has some GIANT holes in his game. But man, IF he could learn to shoot he'd be a damn near perfect 3rd guard.
Hayes individual offense has been historically bad, so we're talking significant work just to get to passable. Good is still a good ways past that. It may be a low chance he actually develops into that ideal 3rd guard, but it's enticing enough a prospect that you definitely pick up the option. We've come this far. But it's very likely a make or break year for him. We've clearly made shooting a priority and for good reason. We can't afford to have multiple non-shooters on the floor. Nobody can in today's league.
Re: Pistons excercise options on Bey, Stewart, Hayes and Cunningham
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:28 am
by Sort
I supposed it's more sign of faith in Hayes, but that doesn't really make much sense. Being soft with him has not seen any real development to his game and this probably doesn't change that outcome.
I'm hoping Casey wasn't being hyperbolic this year about players earning it. Unless Hayes has made a real progression, I'm not sure he should be playing save back to back games or injury situations. Cojo is clearly better than him, and well, that's terribly unexciting to even write.
Re: Pistons excercise options on Bey, Stewart, Hayes and Cunningham
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:49 pm
by whitehops
Billl wrote:Not surprising. Even if you aren't sold on Killian, what are you going to do? He's gonna get another shot as a backup an see if he can build on the end of last season.
it would be far from unprecedented, jalen smith got his option declined and he was the 10th pick in the same draft. it proved to not be a bad move, because the pacers could only offer him $4.7M (the amount of his initial rookie deal) but any other team could have offered more, and they didn't. the deadline is still a month away but i'm sure a handful of 1st round rookies from the draft will have their options declined.
we could have declined the option, had turned this upcoming season into a prove-it year and re-signed him if he showed progress. my guess is they locked him in to take pressure off hayes/not shake his confidence.
Re: Pistons excercise options on Bey, Stewart, Hayes and Cunningham
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:03 pm
by FloridaMan78
I have hope Killian can become as good as Ricky Rubio. That as the backup PG, 3rd guard would be great.
Re: Pistons excercise options on Bey, Stewart, Hayes and Cunningham
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:27 pm
by 440BB
whitehops wrote:we could have declined the option, had turned this upcoming season into a prove-it year and re-signed him if he showed progress. my guess is they locked him in to take pressure off hayes/not shake his confidence.
That's my guess too. I suspect they felt like they owed him that for the mess of a first season they put him through. If there was ever a young rookie that should have been brought along slowly, it was Hayes.
Re: Pistons excercise options on Bey, Stewart, Hayes and Cunningham
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:33 pm
by TPA
I think the extensions also put some peace of mind in the young players, in such that they'll be able to concentrate on basketball and put their focus on the court.
Hayes is seeing on-court successes within his draft-adjacent peer group. Killian HAS to be hungry to find similar progression within his own game. And it wouldn't take a whole lot for him to take a step or two forward in his development. If his off-season work on his jumper pays ANY dividends for him, it's a huge plus. It's about confidence and consistency with him. I'm rooting hard for the kid.
Re: Pistons excercise options on Bey, Stewart, Hayes and Cunningham
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:36 pm
by flow
whitehops wrote:Billl wrote:Not surprising. Even if you aren't sold on Killian, what are you going to do? He's gonna get another shot as a backup an see if he can build on the end of last season.
it would be far from unprecedented, jalen smith got his option declined and he was the 10th pick in the same draft. it proved to not be a bad move, because the pacers could only offer him $4.7M (the amount of his initial rookie deal) but any other team could have offered more, and they didn't. the deadline is still a month away but i'm sure a handful of 1st round rookies from the draft will have their options declined.
we could have declined the option, had turned this upcoming season into a prove-it year and re-signed him if he showed progress. my guess is they locked him in to take pressure off hayes/not shake his confidence.
It's not unprecedented, but it's rare.
Since the advent of the draft lottery in 2005, only 6 players taken in the lottery (out of 224) have had their third-year option declined. And 3 of those 6 were Suns. Hayes would have been highest pick to be declined.
Re: Pistons excercise options on Bey, Stewart, Hayes and Cunningham
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:40 pm
by chrbal
Hayes was the only one up for debate. So none of this is surprising, Hayes seems like an ok idea. Hopefully Joseph moves on before 23-24
Re: Pistons excercise options on Bey, Stewart, Hayes and Cunningham
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:42 pm
by tmorgan
FWIW, this was Killian’s 4th year option, not third.
You have to make the decision a year early, and we did.
Go Killian! Take that next step.
Re: Pistons excercise options on Bey, Stewart, Hayes and Cunningham
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:37 pm
by whitehops
flow wrote:It's not unprecedented, but it's rare.
Since the advent of the draft lottery in 2005, only 6 players taken in the lottery (out of 224) have had their third-year option declined. And 3 of those 6 were Suns. Hayes would have been highest pick to be declined.
where'd you find that info? it'd be cool to look through.
and as tmorgan mentioned, this was hayes' 4th year-player option. i imagine there's many more players that would qualify for that scenario.
Re: Pistons excercise options on Bey, Stewart, Hayes and Cunningham
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:42 am
by flow
whitehops wrote:flow wrote:It's not unprecedented, but it's rare.
Since the advent of the draft lottery in 2005, only 6 players taken in the lottery (out of 224) have had their third-year option declined. And 3 of those 6 were Suns. Hayes would have been highest pick to be declined.
where'd you find that info? it'd be cool to look through.
and as tmorgan mentioned, this was hayes' 4th year-player option. i imagine there's many more players that would qualify for that scenario.
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2021/11/01/suns-making-jalen-smith-rare-lottery-pick-with-declined-third-year-team-option/
Re: Pistons excercise options on Bey, Stewart, Hayes and Cunningham
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:29 pm
by hoophabit
Hayes turned 21 in July, so is two months older than Cade, and 7 months older than Jaden. Losing your rookie year to a the hip injury was tough. He's a big strong versatile guard who is an excellent defender and passer, but an inefficient scorer. He just needs to play his game and shoot when he's open. Tired of watching him turn down open shots and dribble into trouble. Had some pretty good games in the second half last year. He needs to improve, but it's too early to give up on him. The rest were no brainers.
Re: Pistons excercise options on Bey, Stewart, Hayes and Cunningham
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:06 pm
by MotownMadness
Hayes just looks so robotic and predictable. Kid needs to just loosen up and not be afraid to shoot. Hes young though and once the game comes to him, he still has good potential.
Re: Pistons excercise options on Bey, Stewart, Hayes and Cunningham
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:45 am
by ComboGuardCity
MotownMadness wrote:Hayes just looks so robotic and predictable. Kid needs to just loosen up and not be afraid to shoot. Hes young though and once the game comes to him, he still has good potential.
Like that OKC game. I think he just needs to play freer which makes him at least serviceable.
Re: Pistons excercise options on Bey, Stewart, Hayes and Cunningham
Posted: Sat Oct 1, 2022 3:31 pm
by Rip32
hoophabit wrote:Hayes turned 21 in July, so is two months older than Cade, and 7 months older than Jaden. Losing your rookie year to a the hip injury was tough. He's a big strong versatile guard who is an excellent defender and passer, but an inefficient scorer. He just needs to play his game and shoot when he's open. Tired of watching him turn down open shots and dribble into trouble. Had some pretty good games in the second half last year. He needs to improve, but it's too early to give up on him. The rest were no brainers.
The problem with Hayes is he has maxed out athletically so someone of his size should have and all-around game like Chauncey Billups i.e. posting, mid range and 3 ball and waiter (sets the table). He's just to robotic and predictable. In addition, he's afraid of contact. I really don't see him taking the next step under this coaching staff. He desperately needs a coach like Billups, who I think should be our next HC.
Re: Pistons excercise options on Bey, Stewart, Hayes and Cunningham
Posted: Sat Oct 1, 2022 11:20 pm
by Pharaoh
The thing no one really brings up with Hayes is his defense on the ball.
IF we expect Cade to carry a massive offensive load then you gotta give him rest on the other end of the floor. Who's gonna do that? Ivey? It's a bit much to expect a rookie to be a quality point of attack defender.
For me that's Hayes' greatest strength.
Offensively if he can get to a reasonable % on catch and shoot 3s that's how I'd play him off the ball. Slip and cut through, constant motion...but we don't run a motion based offense so it's likely he can stand in the corners and catch and shoot 3s from there.
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Re: Pistons excercise options on Bey, Stewart, Hayes and Cunningham
Posted: Sun Nov 6, 2022 3:59 am
by FloridaMan78
Here’s the thread when Hayes option was picked up, and conveniently Mancod didn’t comment.
No one was laughing at Weaver for doing it. That’s why I commented on it in the other thread. Everyone was pretty much accepting of it.
My point is. We were obviously wrong.