Athletic:Inside Hayes tweaked jumpshot.

[zeebneeb]

"To everyone involved, “Operation: Fix Killian Hayes’ Jump Shot” wasn’t as complex as the naked eye might tell you. Contrary to Hayes’ shooting numbers through his first two seasons, those invested in the 2020 No. 7 pick’s development saw simple fixes. Intricate, but simple. The primary barriers for the 21-year-old would be comfort and reps. Getting to a point where those changes felt natural, as if they were second nature, was the biggest hurdle to overcome in a summer’s time.

It didn’t happen overnight, but Hayes is there. He’s comfortable."


https://theathletic.com/3634924/2022/09/27/pistons-killian-hayes-jumper/

Sounds like Hayes really put some work in. If he does become a reliable shooter, his value will soar.

[bstein14]

If he's going to play with Cade effectively (off the ball), he needs to be able to catch and shoot three pointers to help space the floor.

If he's going to be a good backup PG and run an effective pick and roll, he's going to need to be able to come off a screen and punish the defender if they cheat under by stepping up and hitting a 16-18 ft jumper off the dribble.... if he isn't a threat to shoot on a pick and roll it makes the entire play way less effective and the points per possession when Killian is the pick and roll ball handler reflect that. The team did an awful job scoring when Killian ran the pick and roll last season even though he's a good passer (especially in transition).

If he even does one of those two things efficiently this year its a huge win for him as a player and he instantly becomes a lot more valuable to the team.

[kierkegaard]

1) everyone at almost every level becomes a better shooter over time.
2) the pressure cooker of the big stage is certainly a thing.
3a) the shooters mentality is always: "I can't believe you're leaving me this wide open ... bam!"
3b) a good shooter "knows" from the second the ball leaves his hands that it's going in. Even when wrong he still "knows" this.

For example, without the mentality of 3a/3b you might have a slight opening yet hesitate to shoot, thinking you (or someone else) can maybe get a better shot. That mental hesitation will kill your shot. But if you have 3a/3b there will be no hesitation at all.

I'm not sure that Hayes has the capacity for 3a/3b. I think there will always be a little hoping, praying, trying to coax the ball in. I'd of course love to be proven wrong about this.

That said, as long as 1) plays out, given his passing and defense I think Hayes will become serviceable over time.

He's very competitive, which will serve him well over time, just not confident in his shot to date. His form is good, though he's not fluid. Would love to see a step up in his confidence.

[Cowology]

Sounds great. Show me. *shrug*

[Laimbeer]

He doesn't seem competitive to me. He'll be fairly content to collect his $24M and call it a career.

[Manocad]

Sounds like he’s a lock for MIP.

[thesack12]

Gotta love the pre-season fluff pieces.

They'll never stop being a thing.

[Manocad]

Everything preseason is fluff.

“Did you see that September 28 article where Casey hinted that Duren and Bagley could be starting together? ER MER GERD ER MER GERD! That will be a disaster! No floor spacing! Who will shoot the 3’s?!?”

[bstein14]

Bagley also apparently worked on this shot a ton as well.

Interesting quote from Casey on Diallo, was that they don't need Diallo to be a great shooter because he does so much other stuff well... said he's a great cut man. Sounds like they are wanting Diallo to focus on other things not looking for him to get up a bunch of outside shots.

[mattao313]

Gotta love the pre-season fluff pieces.

They'll never stop being a thing.

The good Ole pistons off season kool-aid lol

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[Uncle Mxy]

He doesn't seem competitive to me. He'll be fairly content to collect his $24M and call it a career.

What boggles me about Killingme Hayes' "lack of dog" was that Will Bynum "he got dog" was his trainer leading into the draft! He came in at a weird time as a Frenchie at the height of COVID-19, but I figured he'd show us some nasty by NOW.

[Drwho17]

They need to work on his balance, that's his problem I think, that's why he misses so far off and throws up occasional miss everything type shots. I thought his shot form was pretty good, it's just he's not good at gaining balance when he tries to make a shot.

[Snakebites]

Sounds great. Show me. *shrug*

There's nowhere to go but up in terms of his shooting...

[flow]

Bagley also apparently worked on this shot a ton as well.

Interesting quote from Casey on Diallo, was that they don't need Diallo to be a great shooter because he does so much other stuff well...said he's a great cut man. Sounds like they are wanting Diallo to focus on other things not looking for him to get up a bunch of outside shots.

At least Casey has that right. A few on here should take note.

[ComboGuardCity]

I’ll believe it when I see it. Remember all the muscle Austin Daye put on. Or Stuckey’s improved vision? Charlie V’s boxing to get better at defense. I am optimistic but I’m always optimistic and have been almost always wrong for 12 years.

[edmunder_prc]

Sounds great. Show me. *shrug*

There's nowhere to go but up in terms of his shooting...

Hmm, Bey worked on his game and his shooting got worse. Actually much worse and it seems to spook him for a while and he shot like crap.

With Hayes, who knows. His shot is bad in every way. Awful base, legs never the same, off balance, doesnt square up, shoulders seem off, elbow out at a weird angle.

[DetroitSho]

They need to work on his balance, that's his problem I think, that's why he misses so far off and throws up occasional miss everything type shots. I thought his shot form was pretty good, it's just he's not good at gaining balance when he tries to make a shot.

Exactly this. Sometimes he shoots with the "left-right" foot placement which is what a right handed shooter should be using. His last steps should be "right-left" to help better align his upper body.

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[Manocad]

They need to work on his balance, that's his problem I think, that's why he misses so far off and throws up occasional miss everything type shots. I thought his shot form was pretty good, it's just he's not good at gaining balance when he tries to make a shot.

Exactly this. Sometimes he shoots with the "left-right" foot placement which is what a right handed shooter should be using. His last steps should be "right-left" to help better align his upper body.

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I just reread this post and realized that I hadn't really given it much thought other than "footwork on the shot is wrong." So reading it again just now and paying more attention, I stood up and did the pretend ball, dribble dribble, pull up for a straightaway jumper thing and realized that doing it the other way (right foot first, left foot second for a right-handed shot) feels totally wrong unless it's sliding left to right and having to go up with a shot after a right/left step. Which for Hayes would only be when sliding right to left and going up after a left/right step.

So now I'll have to watch and see if he's going into straight away shots left/right instead of the opposite.

[buzzkilloton]

66% free throw 15% 3pter

Their may be some results from the tweaked shot. Just not the kind we were looking for.

[Uncle Mxy]

His shot is twerked, all right.