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After last night, I'm all the Duren train.

We need defence AND a lob threat. He's not ready to anchor alone, so I say move Bey to 6th man

Cade
Ivey
Bojan
Stew
Duren

He'll make a good backup for Wembanyama

Duren impressed me more than I figured he would. Rebounding and defense seemed good from what I was able to catch. I'd like to see him play through contact better though. I remember once or twice he got fouled a little bit, not a hard foul or anything, and it totally threw his balance off.

If Casey amd Weaver are serious about being a defensive oriented team, Duren should start, right out of the gate. Already the teams best shot blocker, and rebounder, and his defense was surprisingly good for being 18, and first pro action.

Cade
Ivey
Bey
Stewart
Duren

That is the way to go. Rookie status be damned. He looked great last night.

zeebneeb wrote:If Casey amd Weaver are serious about being a defensive oriented team, Duren should start, right out of the gate. Already the teams best shot blocker, and rebounder, and his defense was surprisingly good for being 18, and first pro action.

Cade
Ivey
Bey
Stewart
Duren

That is the way to go. Rookie status be damned. He looked great last night.

My hope is Duren does this again in the next preseason game and then try him starting in the following one. I know it’s a long shot Casey would start him right away in the regular season, but if he plays well then maybe they’ll have no choice but to start him.

It fixes the lineups a lot, especially if Casey stays rigid with his whole team starters and bench guys team rotations. Bagley and Duren is awful on offense.

FloridaMan78 wrote:

zeebneeb wrote:If Casey amd Weaver are serious about being a defensive oriented team, Duren should start, right out of the gate. Already the teams best shot blocker, and rebounder, and his defense was surprisingly good for being 18, and first pro action.

Cade
Ivey
Bey
Stewart
Duren

That is the way to go. Rookie status be damned. He looked great last night.

My hope is Duren does this again in the next preseason game and then try him starting in the following one. I know it’s a long shot Casey would start him right away in the regular season, but if he plays well then maybe they’ll have no choice but to start him.

It fixes the lineups a lot, especially if Casey stays rigid with his whole team starters and bench guys team rotations. Bagley and Duren is awful on offense.

Agreed on the Duren Bagley pairing, it was brutal as hell.

The issue here, is that there needs to be two things in the starting lineup;

A stretch big, and a lob threat. That means that the lineup has to be;

Cade
Ivey
Bey
Stewart
Duren

Or

Cade
Ivey
Bey
Bojan
Bagley

Or

Cade
Ivey
Bey
Bojan
Duren

Or

Cade
Ivey
Bey
Stewart
Bagley

That provides both. My preference right now is the Stewart/Duren lineup as it provides really good interior presence, rebounding, and switchable defense. If Stewart is taking, and making the three, it's ideal.

I'd be tempted to put Livers instead of Bey in all the above lineups.

Uncle Mxy wrote:I'd be tempted to put Livers instead of Bey in all the above lineups.

Yeah - Until Rookie Bey shows back up again, he's a bad defense, high TO, low assist, chucker. I dont get how that is a LOCK for our SF when Livers and Diallo would likely use those minutes better.

I’m fine with moving bey. I haven’t seen anything that says man he’s sweet. Seems like a plodder when I watch him. I’m on the start livers wagon. Starting bey is cool too.

I think Bey and Livers are both sixth man material, though Bey has that Microwave type appeal more. I think he’s gonna want too much money, build him up trade him out if doesn’t get back to what he was by mid season.

Uncle Mxy wrote:I'd be tempted to put Livers instead of Bey in all the above lineups.

I am VERY quickly starting to sour on Bey. After he developed a little better ability to put the ball on the floor it seems like now that's his primary move, opponents have figured that out, and he's getting eaten alive by defenses.

I’m all for Duren Stewart at 5 4

Definitely thru with Bey’s Kobe Bryant experiment.

Manocad wrote:

Uncle Mxy wrote:I'd be tempted to put Livers instead of Bey in all the above lineups.

I am VERY quickly starting to sour on Bey. After he developed a little better ability to put the ball on the floor it seems like now that's his primary move, opponents have figured that out, and he's getting eaten alive by defenses.

Ditto. Instead of using the threat of the spot up three to put the ball on the floor, he thinks he's paul pierce.

Looks like Bey is the winner of the 2022-23 Pistons whipping boy contest. I'm old enough to remember when Grant had to go because he was holding Bey back and Bey was all star caliber when Grant wasn't around. Ahhh the good ole days. Lol

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We actually have a LOT of options & flexibility on this roster. Kinda crazy to think about, but we have our entire starting 5 of the future on rookie contracts. Cade/Ivey/Livers/Stewart/Duren. I dunno how the heck we're gonna keep them all once the team actually starts winning and everybody's value skyrockets. *shrug*

And then to still have Hayes/Bey/Bagley in that hopeful category, where there is a chance one of them pans out or maybe even 2... but all 3 could turn into busts and I wouldn't really be surprised by that either.

And then you have veteran shooters in Bojan, Burks, CoJo & McGruder to help keep us competitive and push the young guys. This all sounds fantastic to me. I am curious to see what direction we eventually take with Bogdanovic. Picked him up cheap and he fills a need, but probably still best as a future asset. Tough call though if the team is playing well with him in the lineup.

DetroitSho wrote:Looks like Bey is the winner of the 2022-23 Pistons whipping boy contest. I'm old enough to remember when Grant had to go because he was holding Bey back and Bey was all star caliber when Grant wasn't around. Ahhh the good ole days. Lol

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Sir, I know not of what you speak.

I'm surprised that so many here were happy with Duren's defense. I know its preseason game 1, but I felt like a few times when other players drove to the basket that weren't his man, he just let them right at the rack. I know its obviously going to take some time, but Id love it he challenged just about everything that comes his way down there. I am not sure if its fear of fouling or fear of getting scored on or what, and I know he's a super young kid, but I'd love to see a bit more fight from him on those types of plays.

I'm excited for his defensive potential for sure, because he's much more mobile out there than someone like Bagley is. I think he may be better at stepping out on the perimeter than I expected as well which is huge in the pick and roll defensive scheme.

Overall game 1 I would give Duren a B+ and Ivey an A- but overall you can see the insane potential in both. Cade is for sure more of a sure fire all-star IMO but Ivey's quickness and athleticism and Duren's insane athleticism give them both huge upside and they both have all-star potential as well no question.

The most important part of big man defense is HELP defense. Outside of Jokic, Embiid and Giannis, there isn’t a ton of effective down low scoring in the league anyway. It’s lobs and weak side cuts and motion plays that lead to most dunks and layups.

Stewart isn’t going to stop much of that stuff except with good feet at the point of attack. That and his jumper are why we’re re-inventing him as a 4.

Duren doesn’t do much on help right now either, but the potential is there. Noel does it to some extent in the short-term. Bagley is way too slow on reads.

bstein14 wrote:I'm surprised that so many here were happy with Duren's defense. I know its preseason game 1, but I felt like a few times when other players drove to the basket that weren't his man, he just let them right at the rack. I know its obviously going to take some time, but Id love it he challenged just about everything that comes his way down there. I am not sure if its fear of fouling or fear of getting scored on or what, and I know he's a super young kid, but I'd love to see a bit more fight from him on those types of plays.

I'm excited for his defensive potential for sure, because he's much more mobile out there than someone like Bagley is. I think he may be better at stepping out on the perimeter than I expected as well which is huge in the pick and roll defensive scheme.

Overall game 1 I would give Duren a B+ and Ivey an A- but overall you can see the insane potential in both. Cade is for sure more of a sure fire all-star IMO but Ivey's quickness and athleticism and Duren's insane athleticism give them both huge upside and they both have all-star potential as well no question.

Duren switched to the perimeter player most of the time and that’s what was impressive. Most of the time it wasn’t his responsibility to help but to stay with his perimeter man. There was a couple times he could have but, likely couldn’t have gotten there. But what he did do, which was really impressive, is come off defending the perimeter and rebounded the ball from the three point line. That’s been a big weakness for us in the past.

Yea big men are supposed be the the anchor, but this defensive scheme changes that when switches happen so often.

tmorgan wrote:The most important part of big man defense is HELP defense. Outside of Jokic, Embiid and Giannis, there isn’t a ton of effective down low scoring in the league anyway. It’s lobs and weak side cuts and motion plays that lead to most dunks and layups.

Stewart isn’t going to stop much of that stuff except with good feet at the point of attack. That and his jumper are why we’re re-inventing him as a 4.

Duren doesn’t do much on help right now either, but the potential is there. Noel does it to some extent in the short-term. Bagley is way too slow on reads.

Potential is there once he gets comfortable with the defensive scheme.

That goal tend he had when he came from half court on that fast break was sick.