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Seems like Bojan and Ivey ballanced our offense. Our issues are the defense and the 2nd unity.

18.3PPG 4.3RPG 7.0APG 2.5AST 49.6TS% 17.0 FGA 35.0 3P% 101 Minutes - Cade Cunningham

17.7PPG 5.0RPG 6.0APG 1.6AST 59.1TS% 13.3 FGA 45.5 3P% 95 Minutes - Jaden Ivey

18.0PPG 8.0RPG 2.0APG 1.5AST 62.7TS% 12.0 FGA 33.3 3P% 101 Minutes - Saddiq Bey

19.3PPG 4.0RPG 2.7APG 3.8AST 65.1TS% 13.7 FGA 50.0 3P% 93 Minutes - Bojan Bogdanovic

Cade TS is still too low, but it's not a disaster, everybody else have a really good TS%, even Bey who's only shooting 33.3% from 3. Stewart is not included here because his numbers are a disaster and he should not be starting, but our starters are working well together on offense.

FWIW last season we were one of the worst offensive teams in history.

People can't seriously be mad at Cade. He's averaging 18/4/7 on 35% from 3.
Ivey is averaging 18/5/6 on 45% from 3 and with a well above average true shooting %.

The 2nd unity will be fine once Burks and Bagley are playing.

The main issue is our defense, but one step at a time, we are not going to become a good team over night with so many young players in important roles.

Ivey looks like the real deal. And he’s just going to get better!

Bojan looks smart w a deadly shot. Steal of a trade.

Cade has definitely been pretty mediocre so far its only been 3 games tho

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League average TS% was up last year to about 56%. Being sub 50% puts you in the bottom fifth of the league so hopefully Cade doesn't stay there for long.

Ivey has been impressive in his takes to the rim for sure. Hopefully he gets more freedom to run and gun on those fastbreaks and we look to outlet directly to him more.

Ivey is really fun and looks legit with that speed

bstein14 wrote:League average TS% was up last year to about 56%. Being sub 50% puts you in the bottom fifth of the league so hopefully Cade doesn't stay there for long.

He needed 2 things to improve his TS% from his rookie season. An acceptable 3 point shooting % and more free throws. 3 point is there, next step is the refs showing him some respect and him doing a better job getting to the line.

If a couple of his missed shots are converted into fouls, and he hit 3 out of this 4 FTs, his TS% should be around league average.

1 step at a time. He will get there. 3 point shot, Foul trouble and TOs appear to be fixed. Defense is improving.

mattao313 wrote:Cade has definitely been pretty mediocre so far its only been 3 games tho

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Considering he's at 18.3 PPG playing with three guys averaging 17.7, 18.0 and 19.3, and averaging 7.0 assists while playing next to a guy averaging 6.0 assists, I'd say the only thing mediocre is his shooting. And maybe his rebounding could be a little better. On average turnovers are down, assists are up, steals are up, and 3PT% is up.

If the team is built right and everyone is averaging what they're capable of averaging, I don't expect Cade to score a helluva lot more than 20 points on any given night because he won't have to. Average 7-8 assists and 6-7 boards on a decent shooting % with the occasional triple double thrown in there and he's off to the All Star game.

I'd agree I'd rather see Cade get 20-7-7 on good efficiency than score 25 a night and not do the other things.

He for sure should be getting a few more rebounds if we're running Stewart as the starting center its got to be a rebounding by committee and both Cade and Ivey are capable rebounding guards for sure.

And with his bigger size and frame, Cade still isn't taking it at the defense (the way Ivey does with his speed an athleticism)... he's still driving in and pulling up before he gets to the defense, or trying to manuever around the defender to avoid the contact. Super small sample size, but I haven't seen much of him forcing himself into defenders (the way Grant would be near the top of the FT attempts leaders by doing). When Cade gets defensive resistance its usually a pass out to an open teammate or a pull up before the defense can check him, or trying to be crafty driving inside to get the shot up.

Some other interesting, way too early stats.

We're #15 in points scored per game , but we're 29th in FG% ahead of only the Lakers. We're 28th in TS%.
We're -9.7 which puts us in the bottom 3 with the Grizzlies and Rockets.
We're 8th in 3 point attempts and 18th in 3 point percentage.
We're 3rd best in the league at free throw attempts at 29 per game, but near the bottom in FT% at 70%
We're currently the 7th best rebounding team in the league at 47.7% (Thanks Duren!)
We've taken care of the ball with just 14 TOs per game, 9th best in the league.
We're the 27th ranked defense in the league, and the 20th ranked offense. Net rating is 28th.
We're leading the league in assist percentage, as 71.6% of our made field goals come off assists

We're 25th in opponent's fast break points (last year we were 3rd on the season)
We're 22nd in opponent's points in the paint. (last year we were 23rd on the season)
We're 23rd in opponent's 2nd chance points. (last year we were 4th on the season)
We're 12th in opponent's points off TOs (last year we were 21st on the season)

bstein14 wrote:I'd agree I'd rather see Cade get 20-7-7 on good efficiency than score 25 a night and not do the other things.

He for sure should be getting a few more rebounds if we're running Stewart as the starting center its got to be a rebounding by committee and both Cade and Ivey are capable rebounding guards for sure.

And with his bigger size and frame, Cade still isn't taking it at the defense (the way Ivey does with his speed an athleticism)... he's still driving in and pulling up before he gets to the defense, or trying to manuever around the defender to avoid the contact. Super small sample size, but I haven't seen much of him forcing himself into defenders (the way Grant would be near the top of the FT attempts leaders by doing). When Cade gets defensive resistance its usually a pass out to an open teammate or a pull up before the defense can check him, or trying to be crafty driving inside to get the shot up.

I would like to see Cade be more assertive for his own offense, amd set the tone early. He could easily average 25-30 a night, but is often trying to set up his teammates, or run Caseys highschool offense.

He has the skill-set to be way, way more productive on the offensive end for himself, and honestly it will help the team if he is.

zeebneeb wrote:

bstein14 wrote:I'd agree I'd rather see Cade get 20-7-7 on good efficiency than score 25 a night and not do the other things.

He for sure should be getting a few more rebounds if we're running Stewart as the starting center its got to be a rebounding by committee and both Cade and Ivey are capable rebounding guards for sure.

And with his bigger size and frame, Cade still isn't taking it at the defense (the way Ivey does with his speed an athleticism)... he's still driving in and pulling up before he gets to the defense, or trying to manuever around the defender to avoid the contact. Super small sample size, but I haven't seen much of him forcing himself into defenders (the way Grant would be near the top of the FT attempts leaders by doing). When Cade gets defensive resistance its usually a pass out to an open teammate or a pull up before the defense can check him, or trying to be crafty driving inside to get the shot up.

I would like to see Cade be more assertive for his own offense, amd set the tone early. He could easily average 25-30 a night, but is often trying to set up his teammates, or run Caseys highschool offense.

He has the skill-set to be way, way more productive on the offensive end for himself, and honestly it will help the team if he is.

Does he efficiency go up if he's taking more shots? Seems like trouble if he takes even more shots at a lower efficiency.

Cade is scoring 18.3 PPG on 17.0 FGAs
Bojan is scoring 19.3 PPG on 13.7 FGAs
Bey is scoring 18.0 PPG on 12.0 FGAs
Ivey is scoring 17.7 PPG on 13.3 FGAs

bstein14 wrote:

zeebneeb wrote:

bstein14 wrote:I'd agree I'd rather see Cade get 20-7-7 on good efficiency than score 25 a night and not do the other things.

He for sure should be getting a few more rebounds if we're running Stewart as the starting center its got to be a rebounding by committee and both Cade and Ivey are capable rebounding guards for sure.

And with his bigger size and frame, Cade still isn't taking it at the defense (the way Ivey does with his speed an athleticism)... he's still driving in and pulling up before he gets to the defense, or trying to manuever around the defender to avoid the contact. Super small sample size, but I haven't seen much of him forcing himself into defenders (the way Grant would be near the top of the FT attempts leaders by doing). When Cade gets defensive resistance its usually a pass out to an open teammate or a pull up before the defense can check him, or trying to be crafty driving inside to get the shot up.

I would like to see Cade be more assertive for his own offense, amd set the tone early. He could easily average 25-30 a night, but is often trying to set up his teammates, or run Caseys highschool offense.

He has the skill-set to be way, way more productive on the offensive end for himself, and honestly it will help the team if he is.

Does he efficiency go up if he's taking more shots? Seems like trouble if he takes even more shots at a lower efficiency.

Cade is scoring 18.3 PPG on 17.0 FGAs
Bojan is scoring 19.3 PPG on 13.7 FGAs
Bey is scoring 18.0 PPG on 12.0 FGAs
Ivey is scoring 17.7 PPG on 13.3 FGAs

Ku Kahlil is saying its because defenses are collapsing on Cade cause they're not respecting Stewart outside.

Cade's shooting bad at the rim and settling for jumpers but was shooting more efficient with a lob threat at least when Bagley was out there.

bstein14 wrote:

zeebneeb wrote:

bstein14 wrote:I'd agree I'd rather see Cade get 20-7-7 on good efficiency than score 25 a night and not do the other things.

He for sure should be getting a few more rebounds if we're running Stewart as the starting center its got to be a rebounding by committee and both Cade and Ivey are capable rebounding guards for sure.

And with his bigger size and frame, Cade still isn't taking it at the defense (the way Ivey does with his speed an athleticism)... he's still driving in and pulling up before he gets to the defense, or trying to manuever around the defender to avoid the contact. Super small sample size, but I haven't seen much of him forcing himself into defenders (the way Grant would be near the top of the FT attempts leaders by doing). When Cade gets defensive resistance its usually a pass out to an open teammate or a pull up before the defense can check him, or trying to be crafty driving inside to get the shot up.

I would like to see Cade be more assertive for his own offense, amd set the tone early. He could easily average 25-30 a night, but is often trying to set up his teammates, or run Caseys highschool offense.

He has the skill-set to be way, way more productive on the offensive end for himself, and honestly it will help the team if he is.

Does he efficiency go up if he's taking more shots? Seems like trouble if he takes even more shots at a lower efficiency.

Cade is scoring 18.3 PPG on 17.0 FGAs
Bojan is scoring 19.3 PPG on 13.7 FGAs
Bey is scoring 18.0 PPG on 12.0 FGAs
Ivey is scoring 17.7 PPG on 13.3 FGAs

That depends. If he's more assertive, he may change up how he's getting those points.

Cade is weird like that. Every game he has moments where the opposing team just can't stop him, and he rattles off 8-12 points, then kicks back, and just runs the offense.

My point is that the more assertive he is, the more open his teammates are going to be, which will drive up open shots, and easy buckets.

I watch a ton of basketball. I watch Luka, just be free out there. His efficiency is all over the place game to game, and even quarter to quarter, but he is always a threat. I want Cade to develope that mindset of "I own the team, illl jack up a shot at anytime I please" as it keeps the defense tight, right up into him.

Cade has that ability and skillset. I see it, plain as day. I get the whole team first thing, I really do, but when Cade dominates, it changes the whole damn game. Watched it like 20 times last year. I want that Cade. Every. Damn. Night.

I wonder if these early games are Cade trying to get a feel of his healthy teammates, treading water while his two veteran lob threats are out. The defenses can continue to collapse on him without that inside threat. This rotation isn't what they planned going in to the season, and Bojan is still not fully integrated into the flow. A reasonably healthy Noel/Duren rotation at center would go a long way toward covering the defensive weakness of Bey and Bojan.

Having Duren as the only real lob threat is a limiting factor for both units, as he won't be on the floor consistently due to inexperience and fouls. Noel's defense, Bagley's offense and their size are really missed. Burks may not be playing for some time and I'm wondering if that was a suspected/known factor in the Olynyk trade.

I guess I''m of a mind that most of these early stats aren't meaningful, except free throws. Everybody can work on improving their free throws, regardless of roles and minutes. The rest of the stats will start to catch my eye by mid season, as rotations settle in.

MotownMadness wrote:

bstein14 wrote:

zeebneeb wrote:I would like to see Cade be more assertive for his own offense, amd set the tone early. He could easily average 25-30 a night, but is often trying to set up his teammates, or run Caseys highschool offense.

He has the skill-set to be way, way more productive on the offensive end for himself, and honestly it will help the team if he is.

Does he efficiency go up if he's taking more shots? Seems like trouble if he takes even more shots at a lower efficiency.

Cade is scoring 18.3 PPG on 17.0 FGAs
Bojan is scoring 19.3 PPG on 13.7 FGAs
Bey is scoring 18.0 PPG on 12.0 FGAs
Ivey is scoring 17.7 PPG on 13.3 FGAs

Ku Kahlil is saying its because defenses are collapsing on Cade cause they're not respecting Stewart outside.

Cade's shooting bad at the rim and settling for jumpers but was shooting more efficient with a lob threat at least when Bagley was out there.

Cade is being forced to shoot a lot of mid range J's because Stewart is inept offensively. We should start either Duren or Noel. Stewart is a disaster as a starter and he would be phenomenal as a bench player.

The Pistons are missing a lot of depth. Burks, Bagley and Noel are all key bench guys, Livers just got back and doesn't seem up to speed yet. The team is just too inexperienced to be able to withstand not having a quality bench especially on the road.

Also, Cade needs to realize how good he can be. He's usually the most skilled player on the court, he needs to have that take over mentality in order to take the next step. If Cade is just another guy, which he has been this season, it's going to be a looong year.

vege wrote:The main issue is our defense

but Stewart "should not be starting."

treefi wrote:

vege wrote:The main issue is our defense

but Stewart "should not be starting."

Yes, he is part of why our defense is bad (it's not all his fault), because he does not provide the skillset a starting center should. But I don't expect you to understand that.

vege wrote:

treefi wrote:

vege wrote:The main issue is our defense

but Stewart "should not be starting."

Yes, he is part of why our defense is bad (it's not all his fault), because he does not provide the skillset a starting center should. But I don't expect you to understand that.

Stewart has been one of the top 10 rim protectors the last two seasons (a stat using blocks per game combined with FG% allowed within 5ft of the basket).

bstein14 wrote:

vege wrote:

treefi wrote:
but Stewart "should not be starting."

Yes, he is part of why our defense is bad (it's not all his fault), because he does not provide the skillset a starting center should. But I don't expect you to understand that.

Stewart has been one of the top 10 rim protectors the last two seasons (a stat using blocks per game combined with FG% allowed within 5ft of the basket).

Does the eye test match that for everyone watching? I feel like Stewart gets killed at the rim consistently.