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Hayes-started out of the gate.

Ivey-started out of the gate

Cade-started out of the gate

People thought that because of Durens extremely young age, he wouldn't be a viable starter, but turns out, that's complete bunk.

Duren is unquestionably the teams best rebounder, and at 18 years old, already a pretty damn good intimidator at the rim;

11 games.

21.4mpg
6.5ppg
7.4rpg
1.3bpg

Here's the important part;

1.9 fouls per game 1.1 turnovers per game

I firmly believe Durens defense, and insane rebounding ability is far, far more valuable then either Bey, or Bojans offense.

The current starting lineup is atrocious. Why not give Duren the same chance Hayes/Ivey/Cade got?

I would prefer for now to have a starting lineup of cade/ivey/bey/stewie/bagley, with a bench unit of hayes/burks/livers/bogey/duren.

This ensures that both our bench and our starting unit has 2 plus defenders in theory (cade/stewie and hayes/duren) along with plenty of scoring.

This 10 man rotation would be balanced as hell with plenty of flexibility for foul trouble.

guldakot wrote:I would prefer for now to have a starting lineup of cade/ivey/bey/stewie/bagley, with a bench unit of hayes/burks/livers/bogey/duren.

This ensures that both our bench and our starting unit has 2 plus defenders in theory (cade/stewie and hayes/duren) along with plenty of scoring.

This 10 man rotation would be balanced as hell with plenty of flexibility for foul trouble.

Bagley didn't start last night, what makes you think Casey, in his infinite wisdom will alter the starting lineup to include Bagley?

Also, how is Bagley better then Duren in the starting lineup? Defense? Nope. Rebounding? Nope. Shot blocking? Nope. Lob threat? Nope.

Just offense? Also, who are the two plus defenders in that starting lineup?

zeebneeb wrote:

guldakot wrote:I would prefer for now to have a starting lineup of cade/ivey/bey/stewie/bagley, with a bench unit of hayes/burks/livers/bogey/duren.

This ensures that both our bench and our starting unit has 2 plus defenders in theory (cade/stewie and hayes/duren) along with plenty of scoring.

This 10 man rotation would be balanced as hell with plenty of flexibility for foul trouble.

Bagley didn't start last night, what makes you think Casey, in his infinite wisdom will alter the starting lineup to include Bagley?

Also, how is Bagley better then Duren in the starting lineup? Defense? Nope. Rebounding? Nope. Shot blocking? Nope. Lob threat? Nope.

Just offense? Also, who are the two plus defenders in that starting lineup?

Stewart and Cade in theory. I tried to balance out the lineups along with taking into account contracts (Bey vs Bogie starting). I would run my lineups for about 30-40 games, and then switch Duren into the starting lineup for the 2nd half of the season. Let the kid grow on the bench, were in no rush here.

guldakot wrote:

zeebneeb wrote:

guldakot wrote:I would prefer for now to have a starting lineup of cade/ivey/bey/stewie/bagley, with a bench unit of hayes/burks/livers/bogey/duren.

This ensures that both our bench and our starting unit has 2 plus defenders in theory (cade/stewie and hayes/duren) along with plenty of scoring.

This 10 man rotation would be balanced as hell with plenty of flexibility for foul trouble.

Bagley didn't start last night, what makes you think Casey, in his infinite wisdom will alter the starting lineup to include Bagley?

Also, how is Bagley better then Duren in the starting lineup? Defense? Nope. Rebounding? Nope. Shot blocking? Nope. Lob threat? Nope.

Just offense? Also, who are the two plus defenders in that starting lineup?

Stewart and Cade in theory. I tried to balance out the lineups along with taking into account contracts (Bey vs Bogie starting). I would run my lineups for about 30-40 games, and then switch Duren into the starting lineup for the 2nd half of the season. Let the kid grow on the bench, were in no rush here.

I'm down with any change to anything for the Pistons.

There is no way a change to the starters could make them any worse.

This starting unit, despite a wealth of talent, is the worst in Pistons history somehow.

I was surprised by how well we held up when we were running Duren and Bagley together (we even had Haimi in that lineup). Almost no shooting in that lineup (I think it was Hayes and either Livers or Bey rounding it out) and yet we held things down just fine due to dominating the boards for a while and having interior defensive presence.

Now that Bagley and Noel are both back, it confounds me that we're not using a better version of that lineup that combines spacing with interior presence.

*Beefstew should be starting at the four and playing alongside another big.* That's the bottom line. He spaces adequately on offense and playing another big with him improves our rim protection and rebounding and could make us look like a halfway competent team.

Who should that other big man be? My preference is Duren, because I think he adds the most and takes away the least, but Bagley and Noel would both be OK options as well.

At this point I'd rather run Bogey or Bey at the 2 than play as small as we have (though ideally we would pick one of them to be our sixth man).

A bench of Hayes, Burks, Bogey/Bey, Livers, Bagley probably plays well enough to keep us in games.

I'm currently on board with Cade/Ivey/Bojan/Stewart/Duren.

I don't think we'll do it, but maybe with Noel/Bagley healthy we give it a shot.

Yeah, I don't see Bey or Bojan going to the bench anytime soon. If Duren starts its probably in place of Stewart.

Moses ShamMoses wrote:Yeah, I don't see Bey or Bojan going to the bench anytime soon. If Duren starts its probably in place of Stewart.

And just like that, Bey goes to the bench. I gotta say, I like it. Bey is simply not a starting caliber forward on an average to good team.

JackTalkThai wrote:

Moses ShamMoses wrote:Yeah, I don't see Bey or Bojan going to the bench anytime soon. If Duren starts its probably in place of Stewart.

And just like that, Bey goes to the bench. I gotta say, I like it. Bey is simply not a starting caliber forward on an average to good team.

Neither is Bagley though... And I think it might be more about Duren and Bagley not being a great fit together. So its more about one of Bagley/Duren starting and one of them coming off the bench if both are are going to be a part of a 10 man rotation.

I'm not even entertaining starting Duren until he can hit free throws. It would be hackaDuren out there at the end of games hes shooting 36% from the line. Good way to destroy a 18yos mental have him on the line bricking at the end of games.

Bagley and Stew did fine starting together.

buzzkilloton wrote:I'm not even entertaining starting Duren until he can hit free throws. It would be hackaDuren out there at the end of games hes shooting 36% from the line. Good way to destroy a 18yos mental have him on the line bricking at the end of games.

He shot 62.5% in college. Have to imagine that number goes back up with more opportunities. He's not like Drummond who shot 29% in college.

BDM22 wrote:

buzzkilloton wrote:I'm not even entertaining starting Duren until he can hit free throws. It would be hackaDuren out there at the end of games hes shooting 36% from the line. Good way to destroy a 18yos mental have him on the line bricking at the end of games.

He shot 62.5% in college. Have to imagine that number goes back up with more opportunities. He's not like Drummond who shot 29% in college.

I expect it will improve as well. That said he can improve it from the bench. 36% FT is unacceptable and he needs to earn a starting job by improving that amongst other things.

Best in a crowd in the league, albeit against back-up bigs, but still better than Dre who plays similar minutes. Crazy for a 19yo who's playing his first NBA games ever. Absolute steal at 13.

pistonsbball wrote:

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Best in a crowd in the league, albeit against back-up bigs, but still better than Dre who plays similar minutes. Crazy for a 19yo who's playing his first NBA games ever. Absolute steal at 13.

Jalen Duren has a huge upside for sure.... and his floor is like a Mitchell Robinson 15 and 12 player that mostly just scores around the basket.... if he ends up working on that offensive skillset watch out for sure... I could see 10 and 10 from him next year in about 24 - 26 MPG.

Stewart injured could get Duren those starter minutes

yeah, Stew is out for 2-3 weeks minimum, I wonder if Duren will get the starting spot?

or do they bring bey back into the starters, and run Bey/Bojan/Bagley

The Moose wrote:yeah, Stew is out for 2-3 weeks minimum, I wonder if Duren will get the starting spot?

or do they bring bey back into the starters, and run Bey/Bojan/Bagley

Bey/Bojan/Bagley will be the disaster of all disasters defensively, but yes, Dwane will probably do it lol

BDM22 wrote:

The Moose wrote:yeah, Stew is out for 2-3 weeks minimum, I wonder if Duren will get the starting spot?

or do they bring bey back into the starters, and run Bey/Bojan/Bagley

Bey/Bojan/Bagley will be the disaster of all disasters defensively, but yes, Dwane will probably do it lol

I want to see a throw back to the 90s lineup next week. Cade/Ivey/Bey/Bags/Duren. Who needs spacing baby.