We're dead last in the entire NBA.

[bstein14]

At 3-12 we're currently tied for last in the league with the Rockets (who won last night against Dallas). With a loss tonight against the Clippers we'll be all alone in 30th place with a 3-13 record, which projects to a 15 win season.

Thoughts? I know many here didn't think it was possible for us to be in the race for Victor, but now it looks like we're leading the charge.

Bojan trade has actually seemed really solid for is and he's been our best player but still not enough to lift us out of dead last. Stewart has likely been our second best player and has taken a clear step forward. Ivey and Duren have both been solid for rookies. So where's the problem? Cade didn't take a the step forward many of us thought he would. Bey is hot or cold but mostly cold. Livers has been streaky. Yes we've had a few injury problems, but being dead last in the league 3 years into the rebuild seems a bit rough. Most of us would have thought we'd be a bit further along at this point.

So what are your thoughts? Are we finishing the season a bottom 3 team for the fourth straight season? Are we worse than the Pacers (with Haliburton playing great and Mathurin looking good as well) and Magic (ROY locked up and Bol Bol being really solid) who many people thought were going to be the two teams we were better than in the East.

[flow]

At 3-12 we're currently tied for last in the league with the Rockets (who won last night against Dallas). With a loss tonight against the Clippers we'll be all alone in 30th place with a 3-13 record, which projects to a 15 win season.

Thoughts? I know many here didn't think it was possible for us to be in the race for Victor, but now it looks like we're leading the charge.

Bojan trade has actually seemed really solid for is and he's been our best player but still not enough to lift us out of dead last. Stewart has likely been our second best player and has taken a clear step forward. Ivey and Duren have both been solid for rookies. So where's the problem? Cade didn't take a the step forward many of us thought he would. Bey is hot or cold but mostly cold. Livers has been streaky. Yes we've had a few injury problems, but being dead last in the league 3 years into the rebuild seems a bit rough. Most of us would have thought we'd be a bit further along at this point.

So what are your thoughts? Are we finishing the season a bottom 3 team for the fourth straight season? Are we worse than the Pacers (with Haliburton playing great and Mathurin looking good as well) and Magic (ROY locked up and Bol Bol being really solid) who many people thought were going to be the two teams we were better than in the East.

Three thoughts.

1. The roster as currently constructed is not good.

2. Under 28 wins was the easiest bet of the year.

3. Casey stinks. For the millionth time.

[buzzkilloton]

I always assumed the plan was to tank this season so I'm not surprised that were last. I figured we would be like 4th worst not the worst but expected 6 or 7 teams to be battling it out with us within games of last. I never once believed we were going to be a playin team or anything like that.

[bstein14]

At 3-12 we're currently tied for last in the league with the Rockets (who won last night against Dallas). With a loss tonight against the Clippers we'll be all alone in 30th place with a 3-13 record, which projects to a 15 win season.

Thoughts? I know many here didn't think it was possible for us to be in the race for Victor, but now it looks like we're leading the charge.

Bojan trade has actually seemed really solid for is and he's been our best player but still not enough to lift us out of dead last. Stewart has likely been our second best player and has taken a clear step forward. Ivey and Duren have both been solid for rookies. So where's the problem? Cade didn't take a the step forward many of us thought he would. Bey is hot or cold but mostly cold. Livers has been streaky. Yes we've had a few injury problems, but being dead last in the league 3 years into the rebuild seems a bit rough. Most of us would have thought we'd be a bit further along at this point.

So what are your thoughts? Are we finishing the season a bottom 3 team for the fourth straight season? Are we worse than the Pacers (with Haliburton playing great and Mathurin looking good as well) and Magic (ROY locked up and Bol Bol being really solid) who many people thought were going to be the two teams we were better than in the East.

Three thoughts.

1. The roster as currently constructed is not good.

2. Under 28 wins was the easiest bet of the year.

3. Casey stinks. For the millionth time.

We finished with 23 wins last season, but we started 4-24 in our first 28 games and then went 19-35 in our last 54 games and I think many of us thought we were closer to winning at that 19-35 rate. Cade was injured early and played horrible to start the year but was much better the 2nd half of the season so it seemed likely he would be building on that.

Obviously having two rookies in the rotation this season there was going to be growing pains. Perhaps many fans here also didn't realize the loss of Jerami Grant would hurt.... he's been great for Portland and is a major reason they are the #1 seed in the West right now. He's averaging a super efficient 21.3 PPG (which has him third behind Dame and Simons) and he's shooting 49.7% from three on 5.5 attempts per game with great D and the best plus/minus on the team. Thriving in his role as the 3rd option out there. Might end up earning himself more than the $112 million extension he wanted from us.

[Manocad]

That 15 games into a season where injuries have been a factor is too early to make any real determinations. But I'm not one for hot take theater.

[vic]

One of the reasons I was adamant last year about not trading Jerami Grant for anything less than a top 10 pic is because he is not only a vet, but a proven 2-way winner and someone who is built for playoff basketball. You don’t give those guys away for nothing.

However Portland played hardball now look at where they are at. 1st in the league. Pistons are last in the league. It’s not the end of the world but it’s definitely a step back in a year where they wanted to step forward.

I don’t buy the nonsense about him not wanting to be here or not fitting with Cade. He literally wanted to be here. If anything Saddiq could have been moved to the bench because Saddiq is not a defensive minded forward, which doesn’t work as a starter.

6 months later Saddiq is a 6th man and JG is leading a two way wing attack to the finals.

Lesson learned: don’t give away value except for equal value.

Opportunity: you better get another 2-way wing that projects to be better than Jerami Grant in the draft this year. Or Wembayama.

[GreekAlex]

That 15 games into a season where injuries have been a factor is too early to make any real determinations. But I'm not one for hot take theater.

I agree that it’s way too early in the season with a team of mostly young rotation players to make generalizations about the team’s direction but even with the injuries & youth, it’s been way more disappointing than I expected.

Down the stretch last season when they were load managing Jerami Grant in favor of younger guys the team was still competitive in most games and a fun team to watch. I was just hoping that they could build off that even if it didn’t necessarily translate in the win column.

[NYPiston]

Three thoughts.

1. The roster as currently constructed is not good.

2. Under 28 wins was the easiest bet of the year.

3. Casey stinks. For the millionth time.

1. Yes, but a lot that has to do with youth and a good chunk of their bench being injured most of the season

2. I didn't have big expectations coming into this season but I think quite a few people had them pegged for more than 28 wins especially after the Bojan addition

3. 100% true and the main thing holding them back outside of inexperience. Pretty good motivator but an absolute **** tactician and in game coach. I don't even know what system the team is playing most times and that switching defense is a joke.

I think it's fair to say that the team might be underachieving a bit but I don't think it's shocking that they are here sitting at 3-12 considering, as mentioned before, youth, a complete lack of bench partially due to injury and who is coaching them. I know there's some pro tank crowd out there but I care more about progression of this current team and, thus far, we're not seeing that which is disappointing. Plenty of season left though.

[Billl]

Yes, this has been a pretty disappointing season so far. I expected a ton of mistakes from the youngsters, but I thought they would at least play hard on both ends. We are basically the worst defensive team in the league though. The "switch everything" plan is obviously a bad strategy, but guys are just getting beat off the dribble with ease and our rotations are waaaay slow. If guys don't start taking some pride on that end, it's going to be a long season.

[Drwho17]

Which games did they lose that they were expected/favored to win? Looking at the schedule, I would say is Orlando was the only game they would be favored, and they won 2 other games besides that. Bucks/Hawks/Celtics are L's, away games are L's. Realistically, 3-12 is probably about where they should be at, looking at the early schedule.

[Absolutia]

We've had a tough schedule; we've had injuries; we've got younger and yet the manner of our defeats are very much different to much of last season's. We were being left behind game after game last year.

No need to panic yet. Take stock at new year.

[NYPiston]

One of the reasons I was adamant last year about not trading Jerami Grant for anything less than a top 10 pic is because he is not only a vet, but a proven 2-way winner and someone who is built for playoff basketball. You don’t give those guys away for nothing.

However Portland played hardball now look at where they are at. 1st in the league. Pistons are last in the league. It’s not the end of the world but it’s definitely a step back in a year where they wanted to step forward.

I don’t buy the nonsense about him not wanting to be here or not fitting with Cade. He literally wanted to be here. If anything Saddiq could have been moved to the bench because Saddiq is not a defensive minded forward, which doesn’t work as a starter.

6 months later Saddiq is a 6th man and JG is leading a two way wing attack to the finals.

Lesson learned: don’t give away value except for equal value.

Opportunity: you better get another 2-way wing that projects to be better than Jerami Grant in the draft this year. Or Wembayama.

They don't get Duren if they don't make that Grant trade. You take that trade every day of the week and twice on Sundays, an absolute no brainer. They weren't winning with Grant anyway, he's a much better fit on a team closer to contention than a rebuilding team like the Pistons.

[FloridaMan78]

Which games did they lose that they were expected/favored to win? Looking at the schedule, I would say is Orlando was the only game they would be favored, and they won 2 other games besides that. Bucks/Hawks/Celtics are L's, away games are L's. Realistically, 3-12 is probably about where they should be at, looking at the early schedule.

I do agree with this. Looking at the schedule this is about where I thought we’d be at.

It has been uglier than I thought it would be. Injuries on a bad team can do that though.

Grant leaving definitely effected the defense. Teams are game planning and laughing at how poor our is defense now. Switching or not, either strategy is pathetic. We just don’t have the players. Our best defenders are kids still learning making a ton of mistakes. Grant was a vet that was a good defender and knew what he was doing and was the backbone of the defense.

[vic]

One of the reasons I was adamant last year about not trading Jerami Grant for anything less than a top 10 pic is because he is not only a vet, but a proven 2-way winner and someone who is built for playoff basketball. You don’t give those guys away for nothing.

However Portland played hardball now look at where they are at. 1st in the league. Pistons are last in the league. It’s not the end of the world but it’s definitely a step back in a year where they wanted to step forward.

I don’t buy the nonsense about him not wanting to be here or not fitting with Cade. He literally wanted to be here. If anything Saddiq could have been moved to the bench because Saddiq is not a defensive minded forward, which doesn’t work as a starter.

6 months later Saddiq is a 6th man and JG is leading a two way wing attack to the finals.

Lesson learned: don’t give away value except for equal value.

Opportunity: you better get another 2-way wing that projects to be better than Jerami Grant in the draft this year. Or Wembayama.

They don't get Duren if they don't make that Grant trade. You take that trade every day of the week and twice on Sundays, an absolute no brainer. They weren't winning with Grant anyway, he's a much better fit on a team closer to contention than a rebuilding team like the Pistons.

In today's league, a 2-way wing defender is the Queen of the Chess Board.

As much as I appreciate the athleticism of Jalen Duren, I'm going to put a hold on calling that a winning move. We can both have our opinion but we have to see how it works on the court in the next few years.

IMO the only way you make that move work is if you get a 3 or 4 that projects to be better than Grant on both ends of the court. At the end of the day, Saddiq/Bojan/Livers are 3 backups to a starting playoff wing such as Grant.

Even with Duren, if you don't replace Grant, you've lost the rebuild. It's all up to Troy.

[vege]

Cade is our best player, Bojan our 2nd best. You're one of my favorite posters bstein14, but reading that Stew is our 2nd best player was disturbing.

We have the worst defense in the league, and it's not even close. That's why we are so bad. It's not rocket science. The roster is poorly constructed (we lack size, interior defense, competent defenders), the starting lineup is terrible, and we're tanking by playing Killian Hayes and starting Marvin Bagley.

[DBC10]

At 3-12 we're currently tied for last in the league with the Rockets (who won last night against Dallas). With a loss tonight against the Clippers we'll be all alone in 30th place with a 3-13 record, which projects to a 15 win season.

Thoughts? I know many here didn't think it was possible for us to be in the race for Victor, but now it looks like we're leading the charge.

Bojan trade has actually seemed really solid for is and he's been our best player but still not enough to lift us out of dead last. Stewart has likely been our second best player and has taken a clear step forward. Ivey and Duren have both been solid for rookies. So where's the problem? Cade didn't take a the step forward many of us thought he would. Bey is hot or cold but mostly cold. Livers has been streaky. Yes we've had a few injury problems, but being dead last in the league 3 years into the rebuild seems a bit rough. Most of us would have thought we'd be a bit further along at this point.

So what are your thoughts? Are we finishing the season a bottom 3 team for the fourth straight season? Are we worse than the Pacers (with Haliburton playing great and Mathurin looking good as well) and Magic (ROY locked up and Bol Bol being really solid) who many people thought were going to be the two teams we were better than in the East.

I mean if we're rationally projecting it based on current output even besides the injury bug, then yeah, it's actually forecasting to be another 25 or less win season and headed for the bottom 3 again. No question, if you were to forecast this out based on the 15 games. I'd feel better if we're at 30 games or even 45 games and then projecting it, but the data right now isn't anything to be impressed about besides 2 or 4 games that showed the young guys that they had heart

Vegas had us 29.5 wins. We'll see I suppose

[Sort]

It's not the record; it's the abysmal play and just how lifeless and noncompetitive so many of these games are. I don't see players responding to their coach. I mean it's not complicated to lose hard every season. Eventually you have to get somewhere. If we end up with the "generational talent" then great. It may be worth it.

But to me, yeah sure they are "developing" players, but this is what failure looks like. I don't mean to suggest this is a final version or they can't get somewhere - just that they haven't.

[bstein14]

It's not the record; it's the abysmal play and just how lifeless and noncompetitive so many of these games are. I don't see players responding to their coach. I mean it's not complicated to lose hard every season. Eventually you have to get somewhere. If we end up with the "generational talent" then great. It may be worth it.

But to me, yeah sure they are "developing" players, but this is what failure looks like. I don't mean to suggest this is a final version or they can't get somewhere - just that they haven't.

I agree, the fight hasn't been there enough... you always get it from Stewart, but some of the other guys just seem fine with being awful. Chalking it up to "we're young and its a developmental year and its a process, etc".... I want guys out there that hate to lose and fight for everything. Feels like so much has been handed to guys without earning it and its reflected in their play.... i guess that's going to be any team that's dead last in offense and awful in rebounding.... because those are hustle/heart/energy areas of the game.

I'm not sure what our "culture" is at the moment other than having fun, being young, and making tons of money.

[mattao313]

Cade is our best player, Bojan our 2nd best. You're one of my favorite posters bstein14, but reading that Stew is our 2nd best player was disturbing.

We have the worst defense in the league, and it's not even close. That's why we are so bad. It's not rocket science. The roster is poorly constructed (we lack size, interior defense, competent defenders), the starting lineup is terrible, and we're tanking by playing Killian Hayes and starting Marvin Bagley.

Cade hasn't been our best player at all Bojan has been much better cade has been pretty bad so far imo

Sent from my SM-A528B using RealGM mobile app

[vege]

Cade is our best player, Bojan our 2nd best. You're one of my favorite posters bstein14, but reading that Stew is our 2nd best player was disturbing.

We have the worst defense in the league, and it's not even close. That's why we are so bad. It's not rocket science. The roster is poorly constructed (we lack size, interior defense, competent defenders), the starting lineup is terrible, and we're tanking by playing Killian Hayes and starting Marvin Bagley.

Cade hasn't been our best player at all Bojan has been much better cade has been pretty bad so far imo

Sent from my SM-A528B using RealGM mobile app

There can be an argument between Cade and Bojan, sure, but because Bojan have been way better than anyone would expect (but a bad fit with Bey), not because Cade hasn't been good. He started slow, but he had a bunch of insane games in a row, then he got injured.

Stew shouldn't even be in the conversation, but I understand it's more about attitude than actual play. I love Stew's attitude, Hayes has also been a fighter on the defensive end, and we need more of that.