Trade deadline thread

[Pharaoh]

That trade fails on the ESPN trade machine. Says Mavs need to cut 3+ million of incoming salary

If it's Bertrans, Powell & Hardy the money works. Powell is expiring too.

What draft compensation do the Mavs have to give?

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[DetroitSho]

I'd be surprised if Pistons made anything beyond a minor move at the trade deadline. I'll hope so, because right now I don't see much reason to watch them as a team right now, but realistically? It just doesn't make sense. Pistons will get more impactful players than Burks and Bogan? How? I want a team that can be competitive next year with a coach that hasn't lost his team. Potential trades are fun to think about, but none have actually made sense to me.

No way is Porzingis getting 40 million a year from any team not named the Wizards. And I was definitely a fan of going after Ayton, but to be fair to myself and other posters like me, Ayton has seriously regressed this year. Man got his money, Phoenix is a hot mess, and he's not going to play savior or even that hard.

I agree wholeheartedly with this and it feeds right into the original point I was making when I made the comparison. Using foresight back in June (prior to drafting Duren) it made alot more sense to be willing to pay Ayton $30 million than it does to be willing in January to pay Porzingis $40 million.

At least you were looking at a 23-24 year old who had been very productive his whole career and still had room to grow, you had a need at center, and you knew it would take the max to have his team potentially not match. Porzingis has been injury prone his whole career, he's had issues on multiple teams, and there's not necessarily the need at his position. I mean is he going to be a $25 million/per year upgrade over Stewart?

So yeah, knowing what you know at each given time, the willingness to pay Ayton makes a ton more sense than the willingness to pay Porzingis present day.

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[Canadafan]

That trade fails on the ESPN trade machine. Says Mavs need to cut 3+ million of incoming salary

If it's Bertrans, Powell & Hardy the money works. Powell is expiring too.

What draft compensation do the Mavs have to give?

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I know nothing about hardy or green. Are they good?
Would be nice to turn Boian into a couple young prospects with draft picks a cherry on top.

[Canadafan]

Bojan Burks Noel
For
Hardy Green Powell Bertans #1pick

[Pharaoh]

That trade fails on the ESPN trade machine. Says Mavs need to cut 3+ million of incoming salary

If it's Bertrans, Powell & Hardy the money works. Powell is expiring too.

What draft compensation do the Mavs have to give?

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I know nothing about hardy or green. Are they good?
Would be nice to turn Boian into a couple young prospects with draft picks a cherry on top.

They've both shown flashes at various times.

Green is a Aussie too so many of us here would be happy to have him on the squad.

Prior to his G League season Hardy was a projected Lottery pick but that 1 season killed his shine.

Powell we'd let walk in the off-season unless he chose to return on a cheaper deal as the vet big man.

Bertrans at this point is just a bad contract that should rarely get any playing time on any team

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[Pharaoh]

Bojan Burks Noel
For
Hardy Green Powell Bertans #1pick

The salaries work but does Dallashave a first to trade? I thought they still owed the Knicks a pick (or 2) for the Kristaps trade?

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[buzzkilloton]

I'd



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You're ignoring our timeline. We are tanking for Wemby and Scoot this season. We needed another big time prospect in the draft.Next season we can make our Cavs or Suns style end the tank push adding someone. Getting Ayton would of took our chances down lower for this seasons draft. Next season per Edwards the goal is to push playin adding someone makes sense.

Again I'm not even that excited about Porzingis. My whole point was I'd rather have him then Kuzma and that was only IF they would take Bagleys bad contract back.

Not sure why were talking Ayton anyways that was in the past and it looks good we skipped him. Guys that are relevant this season are Brooks,Zinger,Kuzma etc.

[vege]

That trade fails on the ESPN trade machine. Says Mavs need to cut 3+ million of incoming salary

If it's Bertrans, Powell & Hardy the money works. Powell is expiring too.

What draft compensation do the Mavs have to give?

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I know nothing about hardy or green. Are they good?
Would be nice to turn Boian into a couple young prospects with draft picks a cherry on top.

No, they're not good, if they were good Dallas wouldn't be trading them, Dallas don't have a lot of good players in their roster.

That 1st is going to be bad, that package have negative value imo, it's not enough incentive to eat Bertans contract and we are giving up Bojan as well, that would be a disaster.

[Canadafan]

That trade fails on the ESPN trade machine. Says Mavs need to cut 3+ million of incoming salary

If it's Bertrans, Powell & Hardy the money works. Powell is expiring too.

What draft compensation do the Mavs have to give?

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I know nothing about hardy or green. Are they good?
Would be nice to turn Boian into a couple young prospects with draft picks a cherry on top.

No, they're not good, if they were good Dallas wouldn't be trading them, Dallas don't have a lot of good players in their roster.

That 1st is going to be bad, that package have negative value imo, it's not enough incentive to eat Bertans contract and we are giving up Bojan as well, that would be a disaster.

K.
So scratch that.
Maybe Phoenix would be a good trade partner with Cam Johnson.
Anyways, see yall after the deadline

[DetroitSho]

I'd



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You're ignoring our timeline. We are tanking for Wemby and Scoot this season. We needed another big time prospect in the draft.Next season we can make our Cavs or Suns style end the tank push adding someone. Getting Ayton would of took our chances down lower for this seasons draft. Next season per Edwards the goal is to push playin adding someone makes sense.

Again I'm not even that excited about Porzingis. My whole point was I'd rather have him then Kuzma and that was only IF they would take Bagleys bad contract back.

Not sure why were talking Ayton anyways that was in the past and it looks good we skipped him. Guys that are relevant this season are Brooks,Zinger,Kuzma etc.

We added an efficient 20ppg wing scorer who's a drop dead shooter and has done literally nothing to hurt our chances of adding those guys. So no, adding Ayton wouldn't have deterred that either.

And it's clear why Ayton was brought up. It just seemed counter intuitive for Porzingis with all his issues at $10 million more per year to be talked up as an option with all the Ayton pushback in the summer.

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[buzzkilloton]

You're ignoring our timeline. We are tanking for Wemby and Scoot this season. We needed another big time prospect in the draft.Next season we can make our Cavs or Suns style end the tank push adding someone. Getting Ayton would of took our chances down lower for this seasons draft. Next season per Edwards the goal is to push playin adding someone makes sense.

Again I'm not even that excited about Porzingis. My whole point was I'd rather have him then Kuzma and that was only IF they would take Bagleys bad contract back.

Not sure why were talking Ayton anyways that was in the past and it looks good we skipped him. Guys that are relevant this season are Brooks,Zinger,Kuzma etc.

We added an efficient 20ppg wing scorer who's a drop dead shooter and has done literally nothing to hurt our chances of adding those guys. So no, adding Ayton wouldn't have deterred that either.

And it's clear why Ayton was brought up. It just seemed counter intuitive for Porzingis with all his issues at $10 million more per year to be talked up as an option with all the Ayton pushback in the summer.

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"If they will take Bagleys bad contract at 12.5mill per for 3 years"

As good as BB is on offense he is a complete zero on defense.

Literally nothing is showing Ayton as better then Porzingis. Its a real strange hindsight argument to try to make. Like if you want to argue against Zinger I completely get it. Wanting or not wanting Ayton during a diff offseason who is a completely diff style of player should have zero barring on this seasons Zinger argument.

If anything I would think with hindsight you would look back and go "wow glad we didnt get Ayton because we have Duren".

ESPN RPM

34.Porzingis
58.Bojan
130. Ayton

538 raptor

21.Porzingis
140. Bojan
240. Ayton

The ringer did a top 100 player rankings recently.

54.Porzingis
72.Ayton


https://nbarankings.theringer.com/
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/4

[russkopp]

I agree with the reports that the pistons are asking for a kings ransom for Bojan. You can’t give him away, he’d be a very sought after player this off-season too.

What if Devon Booker demands a trade this off-season AND (unfortunately) the pistons slide out of the top 2 in the draft. #3-5 pick, Bojan, killian (or something) can get you a true superstar.

Have to make sure the return is right.

[DetroitSho]

You're ignoring our timeline. We are tanking for Wemby and Scoot this season. We needed another big time prospect in the draft.Next season we can make our Cavs or Suns style end the tank push adding someone. Getting Ayton would of took our chances down lower for this seasons draft. Next season per Edwards the goal is to push playin adding someone makes sense.

Again I'm not even that excited about Porzingis. My whole point was I'd rather have him then Kuzma and that was only IF they would take Bagleys bad contract back.

Not sure why were talking Ayton anyways that was in the past and it looks good we skipped him. Guys that are relevant this season are Brooks,Zinger,Kuzma etc.

We added an efficient 20ppg wing scorer who's a drop dead shooter and has done literally nothing to hurt our chances of adding those guys. So no, adding Ayton wouldn't have deterred that either.

And it's clear why Ayton was brought up. It just seemed counter intuitive for Porzingis with all his issues at $10 million more per year to be talked up as an option with all the Ayton pushback in the summer.

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"If they will take Bagleys bad contract at 12.5mill per for 3 years"

As good as BB is on offense he is a complete zero on defense.

Literally nothing is showing Ayton as better then Porzingis. Its a real strange hindsight argument to try to make. Like if you want to argue against Zinger I completely get it. Wanting or not wanting Ayton during a diff offseason who is a completely diff style of player should have zero barring on this seasons Zinger argument.

If anything I would think with hindsight you would look back and go "wow glad we didnt get Ayton because we have Duren".

ESPN RPM

34.Porzingis
58.Bojan
130. Ayton

538 raptor

21.Porzingis
140. Bojan
240. Ayton

The ringer did a top 100 player rankings recently.

54.Porzingis
72.Ayton


https://nbarankings.theringer.com/
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/4

This is truly why I spend weeks without posting because the because the back and forth where people completely ignore important details in your post is fugging irritating ffs.

This is not a "wish we had Ayton" or "who's better, Ayton or Porzingis" argument. Glad we got Duren. I don't have the energy to get you there to be honest. You win chief.

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[DetroitSho]

We added an efficient 20ppg wing scorer who's a drop dead shooter and has done literally nothing to hurt our chances of adding those guys. So no, adding Ayton wouldn't have deterred that either.

And it's clear why Ayton was brought up. It just seemed counter intuitive for Porzingis with all his issues at $10 million more per year to be talked up as an option with all the Ayton pushback in the summer.

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"If they will take Bagleys bad contract at 12.5mill per for 3 years"

As good as BB is on offense he is a complete zero on defense.

Literally nothing is showing Ayton as better then Porzingis. Its a real strange hindsight argument to try to make. Like if you want to argue against Zinger I completely get it. Wanting or not wanting Ayton during a diff offseason who is a completely diff style of player should have zero barring on this seasons Zinger argument.

If anything I would think with hindsight you would look back and go "wow glad we didnt get Ayton because we have Duren".

ESPN RPM

34.Porzingis
58.Bojan
130. Ayton

538 raptor

21.Porzingis
140. Bojan
240. Ayton

The ringer did a top 100 player rankings recently.

54.Porzingis
72.Ayton


https://nbarankings.theringer.com/
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/4

This is truly why I spend weeks without posting because the because the back and forth where people completely ignore important details in your post is fugging irritating ffs.

This is not a "wish we had Ayton" or "who's better, Ayton or Porzingis" argument. Glad we got Duren. I don't have the energy to get you there to be honest. You win chief.

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To add, you went out your way for some strange reason to show how Ayton is worse than Bojan with those stats but somehow adding Ayton was going to bleep our tank in a way that adding Bojan didn't? That makes absolutely zero sense.

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[buzzkilloton]

We added an efficient 20ppg wing scorer who's a drop dead shooter and has done literally nothing to hurt our chances of adding those guys. So no, adding Ayton wouldn't have deterred that either.

And it's clear why Ayton was brought up. It just seemed counter intuitive for Porzingis with all his issues at $10 million more per year to be talked up as an option with all the Ayton pushback in the summer.

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"If they will take Bagleys bad contract at 12.5mill per for 3 years"


This is truly why I spend weeks without posting because the because the back and forth where people completely ignore important details in your post is fugging irritating ffs.

This is not a "wish we had Ayton" or "who's better, Ayton or Porzingis" argument. Glad we got Duren. I don't have the energy to get you there to be honest. You win chief.

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You're the one who brought up the past Ayton discussions we had in that thread for pages and pages. I was the one who was talking about us getting Zinger and I'm the one who argued with you in the past about Ayton. Sorry I'm going to argue my side when you call out things we argued about in the past that I feel I'm right about.

If you cant handle the heat stay out of the kitchen.

[mattao313]

What would be the price to acquire Ruy Hachimura?

We are trying to develop equaly unimpressive prospects like Hayes, Bey, Bagley, Livers and co, might as well try to add another card to the fold.

Would a bunch of 2nds be enough?

I wouldn't mind it but the guy is terrible on defense I'm not sure he'd have a real place here

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[Pharaoh]

Think Grant Williams needs to be the target in the off-season to solve the defensive woes.

Bring his knowledge of the Boston sceme here, plug him in as the starting 3 and at worst:

Duren, Stewart, Williams, Ivey & Cade

Bringing Bags, Bojan, Bey & Hayes off the pine.

Bring back Diallo & Burks, got Livers too.

Plus a top 4 Lotto pick added.

Potentially that team could rise quickly over the next 2 seasons and then expectations adjust

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[DetroitSho]

"If they will take Bagleys bad contract at 12.5mill per for 3 years"


This is truly why I spend weeks without posting because the because the back and forth where people completely ignore important details in your post is fugging irritating ffs.

This is not a "wish we had Ayton" or "who's better, Ayton or Porzingis" argument. Glad we got Duren. I don't have the energy to get you there to be honest. You win chief.

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You're the one who brought up the past Ayton discussions we had in that thread for pages and pages. I was the one who was talking about us getting Zinger and I'm the one who argued with you in the past about Ayton. Sorry I'm going to argue my side when you call out things we argued about in the past that I feel I'm right about.

If you cant handle the heat stay out of the kitchen.

Oh yeah, I can't stand the heat of your HOF debate skills, yeah that's it. The problem is you completely ignore context of the argument and it pretty much devolves into feeling like I'm going back and forth with my 3 year old on why he can't have cookies for breakfast. He ignores context with the best of em.

You yourself don't even believe Porzingis is worth the max, so let's start there. I'm arguing the insanity of being willing to give him a max contract. You don't think he's worth a max contract, but somehow want to argue. WTF for? Just to argue? It's clear you don't think he's worth it because you're somehow trying to "soften the blow" by trying to dump 2 years and $25 million for the right to pay a guy that's not worth $30 million, FORTY MILLION.

Let me break down the comparison for you. Because it literally has NOTHING to do with who's better between Ayton or Porzingis, how good of season either of them are having, NONE of that. I'm talking about REAL TIME analysis of wanting a guy.

Prior to the draft we needed more young talent, size, rebounding, a lob threat for Cade, amongst other things. Well who does those things describe? You guessed it, Ayton. Problem is he was a RFA and whether you thought he was worth $30 million/year or not, you just had to pay that amount to hopefully ensure you'd get him. REMINDER, THIS WAS THE THINKING IN JUNE PRIOR TO THE DRAFT. Prior to walking away with Duren. Then when the trade happened for Noel there was literally no more Ayton discussion.

In January 2023, we need a wing that can score and defend. And hell, defense pretty much all around. We currently have a young rookie contract PF/C that has developed into a passable 3 point shooter and can switch on the perimeter. Not to mention can guard the rim adequately in your smaller lineups. I'll be damned if that's not what you'd want from Porzingis. So why tf pay $40 million/year for what you're already developing? To what, put that younger version on the bench? Who else is willing to give him a max? Oh nobody, so why are you? It's not like you gotta outpay somebody to match.

You're not even filling a need paying him, moreso just upgrading what you're already getting at basically 5 times the price. Like what are we talking about here? You hate Bagley's contract that much to be willing to give out an even worse one for longer just to get rid of it? Is that what this boils down to? I mean if this was 2 years ago and you had 2 years of John Wall rotting in your training room, that might be one thing to have that willingness but no, dumping Bagley doesn't make it a good deal still.

ARE WE CLEAR ON THE AYTON REFERENCE NOW. This has NOTHING to do with hindsight. I'm discussing real time foresight. IN HINDSIGHT, yes I'm glad we have Duren instead. If we're using hindsight, I haven't heard "I'm glad we got Porzingis" much ever from any of his fanbases. So FORESIGHT tells me maxing him would be terrible.

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[buzzkilloton]

Yeah I disagree that Zinger would be a bad fit. If we draft Miller or Whitmore we will be looking to add a guy just like Zinger. Ofc if we get Wemby or Walker(whos rising on boards) then we wouldnt have a need for him. Zinger can shoot the 3pter and he can protect the rim both things we need. I think you're underselling how much better he is then Stew personally. As good of a rebounder Duren is his rim protection has been lacking. We can also run Zinger at the 4 and 5.

As you said I'm well aware its a bad contract. The thing is regardless of who we sign its going to be a bad contract. Were not going to get Kuzma,Williams,Brooks,Cam, or anyone on a good contract in free agency. Every deal is going to be a bad deal if they choose us over somewhere else. Like were looking at 25-30mill for these sort of guys or 40mill for Zinger. Thats why I said if you can lose Bagleys 12.5 mill in the deal I would rather have Zinger then a guy like Kuzma on a max who we were orginally talking about when Zinger was brought up.

Another thing we have coming up is Stewart is going to be getting a new contract. Figuring were paying Bagley 12.5mill what is Stewarts raise going to? Thats Weavers guy so hes going to get paid at least more then Bagley. So we will be paying 30 mill for a Bagley/Stew combo.

For the record I would STILL rather overpay any of these guys then invest 30mill into a 1980s throwback center with a bad mental game like Ayton.

[DetroitSho]

Yeah I disagree that Zinger would be a bad fit. If we draft Miller or Whitmore we will be looking to add a guy just like Zinger. Ofc if we get Wemby or Walker(whos rising on boards) then we wouldnt have a need for him. Zinger can shoot the 3pter and he can protect the rim both things we need. I think you're underselling how much better he is then Stew personally. As good of a rebounder Duren is his rim protection has been lacking. We can also run Zinger at the 4 and 5.

As you said I'm well aware its a bad contract. The thing is regardless of who we sign its going to be a bad contract. Were not going to get Kuzma,Williams,Brooks,Cam, or anyone on a good contract in free agency. Every deal is going to be a bad deal if they choose us over somewhere else. Like were looking at 25-30mill for these sort of guys or 40mill for Zinger. Thats why I said if you can lose Bagleys 12.5 mill in the deal I would rather have Zinger then a guy like Kuzma on a max who we were orginally talking about when Zinger was brought up.

Another thing we have coming up is Stewart is going to be getting a new contract. Figuring were paying Bagley 12.5mill what is Stewarts raise going to? Thats Weavers guy so hes going to get paid at least more then Bagley. So we will be paying 30 mill for a Bagley/Stew combo.

Could we use the IDEA of Zinger or his skillset? Absolutely. I won't debate that. But when you bring the money into it, that changes everything. And you're adding to my point by saying any guy we sign is going to be a bad contract, which my argument for Ayton at the time was that it literally required you to give him a max to get him. I don't think that's the case for Porzingis and Kuzma for that matter. I don't think anybody's lining up to give them a max and if the conversation becomes "hey I'm gonna need the max to come play for you or I'll take $20 something million from this other team" then by all means, bye mf. I wasn't the biggest "Stewart at PF" but what exactly is the plan with him if you max Porzingis? Put him on the bench?

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