2023 NBA Draft - 5th Pick - Detroit Pistons

[Neptune]

I'm starting to get a feeling that Miller is going to drop to 5. I had this same feeling when we got Drummond.

[bstein14]

I'm starting to get a feeling that Miller is going to drop to 5. I had this same feeling when we got Drummond.

If he isn't willing to conversate at all with teams about the night of the murder incident, its a huge red flag. Hard to draft someone like that.

[buzzkilloton]

I'm starting to get a feeling that Miller is going to drop to 5. I had this same feeling when we got Drummond.

If he isn't willing to conversate at all with teams about the night of the murder incident, its a huge red flag. Hard to draft someone like that.

Its a red flag but said red flag is the only reason he would ever fall to us at pick 5. If he didnt have that hes long gone and even with the red flag hes likely not falling to us.

Hes still the betting odds fav for 3 and right there at pick 2 with Scoot. Some of this stuff could be smoke from GMs trying to get him to fall a bit. If he actually falls barring us knowing hes getting a huge charge you take the risk. Hes the exact guy we need nobody else on the table is going to provide the fit he brings with the upside he has.

[Pharaoh]

I'm starting to get a feeling that Miller is going to drop to 5. I had this same feeling when we got Drummond.

If he isn't willing to conversate at all with teams about the night of the murder incident, its a huge red flag. Hard to draft someone like that.

Its a red flag but said red flag is the only reason he would ever fall to us at pick 5. If he didnt have that hes long gone and even with the red flag hes likely not falling to us.

Hes still the betting odds fav for 3 and right there at pick 2 with Scoot. Some of this stuff could be smoke from GMs trying to get him to fall a bit. If he actually falls barring us knowing hes getting a huge charge you take the risk. Hes the exact guy we need nobody else on the table is going to provide the fit he brings with the upside he has.

THIS

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[Spider156]

I'm starting to get a feeling that Miller is going to drop to 5. I had this same feeling when we got Drummond.

If he isn't willing to conversate at all with teams about the night of the murder incident, its a huge red flag. Hard to draft someone like that.

Its a red flag but said red flag is the only reason he would ever fall to us at pick 5. If he didnt have that hes long gone and even with the red flag hes likely not falling to us.

Hes still the betting odds fav for 3 and right there at pick 2 with Scoot. Some of this stuff could be smoke from GMs trying to get him to fall a bit. If he actually falls barring us knowing hes getting a huge charge you take the risk. Hes the exact guy we need nobody else on the table is going to provide the fit he brings with the upside he has.

I see Danny Granger for him. The problem with these young guys is you never know which guy has the good work ethic. If you look at how players carry themselves I’d say Jarace Walker works the hardest, Thompson twins look professional, and of course Villanova makes really good professional basketball players so Whitmore. I do believe Whitmore is the best wing of the draft, his ceiling is anywhere. The reason Miller has a higher ceiling is because of his height and jumpshot. I think Whitmore has more heart, skill, first step, strength. I like Whitmore more than Miller for his potential. I’m also slowly liking Thompson twins more and more specially Ausar, he may be the better wing. I don’t even mind Amen, we need more talent man. Weaver needs to add 2-3 veterans. You can still take Amen if you get rid of Killian, draft a wing at 31, 2-3 new veterans at positions 2-4, bring Procida in from Europe. Many ways to get talent and change the team up drastically. I’m really hoping Weaver designed a tanking roster and next year change to veteran roster.

[Rip32]

I'm starting to get a feeling that Miller is going to drop to 5. I had this same feeling when we got Drummond.

If he isn't willing to conversate at all with teams about the night of the murder incident, its a huge red flag. Hard to draft someone like that.

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. Miller dropping to the Pistons would be huge!!!!!

[Snakebites]

There’s a paradox inherent to a player dropping. If he’s dropping he’s dropping for a reason that could concern us just as much as it concerns teams 2-4.

We saw that with Drummond. While he had some early success the reasons he ultimately failed WERE the same reasons he fell in the draft.

[buzzkilloton]

There’s a paradox inherent to a player dropping. If he’s dropping he’s dropping for a reason that could concern us just as much as it concerns teams 2-4.

We saw that with Drummond. While he had some early success the reasons he ultimately failed WERE the same reasons he fell in the draft.

Laremy Tunsil was projected to go #1 in the NFL draft 6 years ago or so. A video surfaced of him smoking weed with a gas mask on he fell to pick 13 due to this. Hes now the best offensive tackle in football .He was traded for a massive haul of picks and is now the highest paid Olineman ITL.

Their are other examples of guys having trouble in sports and falling in the draft due to it and turning out smashing values. Its a risk/reward thing. Obv it could not work out but what were passing up at 5 for said reward is less then every team in front of us.

Also look at the 2012 draft. Nobody good was drafted after Drummond we took by far the best player until into the 2nd round.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2012.html

[Snakebites]

There’s a paradox inherent to a player dropping. If he’s dropping he’s dropping for a reason that could concern us just as much as it concerns teams 2-4.

We saw that with Drummond. While he had some early success the reasons he ultimately failed WERE the same reasons he fell in the draft.

Laremy Tunsil was projected to go #1 in the NFL draft 6 years ago or so. A video surfaced of him smoking weed with a gas mask on he fell to pick 13 due to this. Hes now the best offensive tackle in football .He was traded for a massive haul of picks and is now the highest paid Olineman ITL.

Their are other examples of guys having trouble in sports and falling in the draft due to it and turning out smashing values. Its a risk/reward thing. Obv it could not work out but what were passing up at 5 for said reward is less then every team in front of us.

Also look at the 2012 draft. Nobody good was drafted after Drummond we took by far the best player until into the 2nd round.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2012.html

And if all Miller had done was smoke some weed in a gas mask we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The NFL is a vastly more conservative league with a more conservative (on average) fanbase and management. To compare that with the potential criminal implications of what's going on with Miller is a reach to put it as generously as I can.

And my point about Drummond was that he was seen as having skills to be a top 3 pick and he dropped at the last minute as questions about his mental makeup and toughness surfaced. Those are exactly the reasons he failed. Was he a fine pick at 9? Sure. But nobody looks back at him as a steal. He dropped for a reason and that reason bore itself out. That's the point.

[buzzkilloton]

There’s a paradox inherent to a player dropping. If he’s dropping he’s dropping for a reason that could concern us just as much as it concerns teams 2-4.

We saw that with Drummond. While he had some early success the reasons he ultimately failed WERE the same reasons he fell in the draft.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2012.html

And if all Miller had done was smoke some weed in a gas mask we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The NFL is a vastly more conservative league with a more conservative (on average) fanbase and management. To compare that with the potential criminal implications of what's going on with Miller is a reach to put it as generously as I can.

And my point about Drummond was that he was seen as having skills to be a top 3 pick and he dropped at the last minute as questions about his mental makeup and toughness surfaced. Those are exactly the reasons he failed. Was he a fine pick at 9? Sure. But nobody looks back at him as a steal.

Unless Miller has been charged with a crime its a risk worth taking.

If we had a better GM we could of traded Drummond for a massive haul. His value at one point was very high. SVG wanted to ride his value to zero and try to make him D.Howard. He was a great pick nobody else on the board produced like he did. We just had to sell him high which is easier said then done but a GM who is very in tune with who his players are could of pulled it off IMO.

[Snakebites]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2012.html

And if all Miller had done was smoke some weed in a gas mask we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The NFL is a vastly more conservative league with a more conservative (on average) fanbase and management. To compare that with the potential criminal implications of what's going on with Miller is a reach to put it as generously as I can.

And my point about Drummond was that he was seen as having skills to be a top 3 pick and he dropped at the last minute as questions about his mental makeup and toughness surfaced. Those are exactly the reasons he failed. Was he a fine pick at 9? Sure. But nobody looks back at him as a steal.

Unless Miller has been charged with a crime its a risk worth taking.

If we had a better GM we could have traded Drummond for a massive haul. His value at one point was very high. SVG wanted to ride his value to zero and try to make him D.Howard. He was a great pick nobody else on the board produced like he did. We just had to sell him high which is easier said then done but a GM who is very in tune with who his players are could have pulled it off IMO.

You and I see and remember Dre very differently I guess. Shrug.

[mattao313]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2012.html

And if all Miller had done was smoke some weed in a gas mask we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The NFL is a vastly more conservative league with a more conservative (on average) fanbase and management. To compare that with the potential criminal implications of what's going on with Miller is a reach to put it as generously as I can.

And my point about Drummond was that he was seen as having skills to be a top 3 pick and he dropped at the last minute as questions about his mental makeup and toughness surfaced. Those are exactly the reasons he failed. Was he a fine pick at 9? Sure. But nobody looks back at him as a steal.

Unless Miller has been charged with a crime its a risk worth taking.

If we had a better GM we could of traded Drummond for a massive haul. His value at one point was very high. SVG wanted to ride his value to zero and try to make him D.Howard. He was a great pick nobody else on the board produced like he did. We just had to sell him high which is easier said then done but a GM who is very in tune with who his players are could of pulled it off IMO.

SVG wanted to trade Drummond Gores loved him tho.

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[DBC10]

And if all Miller had done was smoke some weed in a gas mask we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The NFL is a vastly more conservative league with a more conservative (on average) fanbase and management. To compare that with the potential criminal implications of what's going on with Miller is a reach to put it as generously as I can.

And my point about Drummond was that he was seen as having skills to be a top 3 pick and he dropped at the last minute as questions about his mental makeup and toughness surfaced. Those are exactly the reasons he failed. Was he a fine pick at 9? Sure. But nobody looks back at him as a steal.

Unless Miller has been charged with a crime its a risk worth taking.

If we had a better GM we could of traded Drummond for a massive haul. His value at one point was very high. SVG wanted to ride his value to zero and try to make him D.Howard. He was a great pick nobody else on the board produced like he did. We just had to sell him high which is easier said then done but a GM who is very in tune with who his players are could of pulled it off IMO.

SVG wanted to trade Drummond Gores loved him tho.

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Yep to his credit, SVG realized fairly quick in all honesty of Drummond's deficiencies and tried to trade him at least every season from 2016 and on. Of course it either didn't work out due to Gores and or teams didn't want him at likely the price we were asking for

[buzzkilloton]

And if all Miller had done was smoke some weed in a gas mask we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The NFL is a vastly more conservative league with a more conservative (on average) fanbase and management. To compare that with the potential criminal implications of what's going on with Miller is a reach to put it as generously as I can.

And my point about Drummond was that he was seen as having skills to be a top 3 pick and he dropped at the last minute as questions about his mental makeup and toughness surfaced. Those are exactly the reasons he failed. Was he a fine pick at 9? Sure. But nobody looks back at him as a steal.

Unless Miller has been charged with a crime its a risk worth taking.

If we had a better GM we could of traded Drummond for a massive haul. His value at one point was very high. SVG wanted to ride his value to zero and try to make him D.Howard. He was a great pick nobody else on the board produced like he did. We just had to sell him high which is easier said then done but a GM who is very in tune with who his players are could of pulled it off IMO.

SVG wanted to trade Drummond Gores loved him tho.

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Nah SVG wanted to run Smith,Drummond, and Monroe. Their were offers on the table he didnt want to take them. Drummond did have alot of value at one time early in his career.

He may of been down to trade him at the end of his tenure. By that point Drummonds value was completely shot. As I was saying we needed a GM who was capable of selling him high which SVG was not. SVG thought he could make Smith,Monroe,and Drummond work.

"For so long over the summer, Stan Van Gundy salivated over three promising talents in the Detroit Pistons’ frontcourt, so misfit together yet so individually gifted apart, and told executives and agents: Give me this chance to make them right, a season to prove I’ll execute and complement their offensive and defensive skills. Andre Drummond. Josh Smith. Greg Monroe. Just give me the opportunity of a year, and this Pistons’ franchise will survive the consequences, Van Gundy felt.

Several NBA teams had pitched sign-and-trades scenarios to the Pistons’ front office, but Van Gundy responded with a turn-off: The president and coach requested All-Star caliber players in return, league sources told RealGM. In one instance, two other franchises had agreed to a three-team deal that needed the Pistons’ acceptance, delivering Monroe a maximum-level contract. Opposing team executives involved pushed for it. Only, Detroit rejected."

https://basketball.realgm.com/article/235778/Greg-Monroes-Inevitable-Pistons-Future

[joedumars1]

There’s a paradox inherent to a player dropping. If he’s dropping he’s dropping for a reason that could concern us just as much as it concerns teams 2-4.

We saw that with Drummond. While he had some early success the reasons he ultimately failed WERE the same reasons he fell in the draft.

Laremy Tunsil was projected to go #1 in the NFL draft 6 years ago or so. A video surfaced of him smoking weed with a gas mask on he fell to pick 13 due to this. Hes now the best offensive tackle in football .He was traded for a massive haul of picks and is now the highest paid Olineman ITL.

Their are other examples of guys having trouble in sports and falling in the draft due to it and turning out smashing values. Its a risk/reward thing. Obv it could not work out but what were passing up at 5 for said reward is less then every team in front of us.

Also look at the 2012 draft. Nobody good was drafted after Drummond we took by far the best player until into the 2nd round.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2012.html

I’d take Sewell. Weed/murder, uh yeah, but with that said, yes I’d take take miller if he’s there at 5. Whoever we take hopefully can play off ball. Im still wondering how cade/Ivey mesh we throw in another guy that needs the ball could go bad.

[buzzkilloton]

Bill Simmons always does that trade value article that he started with Grantland. Not saying Simmons is some guru but hes unbiased for Pistons and very biased for Celtics. His 2015 trade value rankings had Drummond at 28th overall. Their was a time Drummond was considered a hot upcoming young player. Sure when you look back at his career overall it was a letdown but their was a time where he had value we just didnt sell him at that time.

Also keep in mind the league wasnt onto paint bound non shooting centers being not valuable back then. Their were alot of moments in SVGs tenure that could of made things diff and trading Drummond early would of been one of them. The other ones were missing when the warroom was split down to the last minutes on Booker vs Stanley and we went Stanley and ofc Kennard over D.Mitch. Even if we didnt hold onto Booker or D.Mitch we could of used them to pick up massive assets.

"28. Andre Drummond
Meet the lottery “project” who blossomed in Detroit and prevented Joe Dumars’s post-2004 Pistons reign from being remembered as a Billy King–level train wreck. Only his reprehensible free throw shooting prevents Drummond from cracking the top 20.10 (Had they added a free throw shooting contest to All-Star Saturday featuring Drummond, Howard, Jordan, Lou Amundson and Elfrid Payton, I definitely would have enjoyed that more than the skills challenge.) The good news for Drummond: Along with Moses and Shaq, he’s one of only three 21-or-under centers who averaged 12 points and 13 boards per game … and he’s about to do it twice. Moses and Shaq! More important, the post–Josh Smith emergence of Drummond and Greg Monroe as a big-boy tandem has driven not just Detroit’s belated playoff run, but Smith’s historic 2014-15 Least Valuable Player campaign. Has anyone ever submitted a stronger LVP showing?"

https://grantland.com/features/2015-nba-trade-value-part-2-the-temple-of-doom/

[hoophabit]

Drummond's physical gifts were remarkable, but a lack of competitive edge and an unwillingness to adjust his game to his strengths and weaknesses limited his career. Had he chosen to keep his offense close to the basket, consistently defend as well as he on occasion showed he could, and be the truly great rebounder he is, things would have worked out better.

Miller's situation is unfortunate in many ways. He could be guilty of only doing a favor to a friend whose vicious intent was unknown to him. He has delivered materials prepared by his attorneys, and I don't doubt he's been told by them not to talk about the matter until it is resolved. At this point no charges have be brought and it's been a while since the crime. I'm sure teams are gathering as much information as possible. I don't claim to know anything about the particulars.

[Pharaoh]

Is it possible Miller ends up in a civil case?



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[TPA]

Is it possible Miller ends up in a civil case?



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This was my thought. He may not be found liable for the murder case, but parties are always lined up and ready for civil suits against anyone involved. I have a feeling that somebody is just waiting for him to get that first NBA contract before naming him, in perhaps a wrongful death suit, or something along those lines. Teams probably want to know whether Miller is absolved from any future liabilities, which I would assume would be a resounding "no". This begs the question that these teams at the top of the draft are going to have to decide; whether the media circus and added baggage of future litigation is worth the investment in Miller as a face of your franchise. The cookie cutter statement provided by Miller's camp (and their refusal to expound any further) does absolutely nothing to qualm the concerns of front offices in a position to draft the kid.

[bstein14]

Pacers are reportedly wanting to package their 3 first round picks to move up in this draft. #7, #26, #29

It's pretty likely they won't be able to move into the top 3 with those picks so they are really possibly looking at moving up to #4 or #5 IMO.... unless they would give up an asset to move up one spot.

I'm not sure we really have room for #26, #29 and #31 on our roster anyways but it will certainly be interesting to see if they are able to make a move or if they just end up keeping all three.