Hope this ages bad. Cade/ivey

joedumars1 · Post #1 » by **joedumars1** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:00 pm

Who would you move? Cade have a bunch of value still or not? If he does would it be him you move to use the Ivey/duren/ausar athletic lineup with an added proven asset? That would be a bet on Ivey. Or would you move Ivey for a very solid role player, bet on cade, or everyone probbaly keep both and see how they play together, but I really think one will have to come off bench and idk if either accepts that. Off season, lol, I also see it headed this way

bstein14 · Post #2 » by **bstein14** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:13 pm

As long as they both are better at catch and shoot threes, they will pair fine together. I can see a point to try and offset their minutes to gives them both more time with the ball in their hands as they continue to develop. If that's the case, you simply play them for a few minutes to start the game together, and then have Ivey come out of the game first and then later have him return to give Cade a rest at the end of the first.

First 5 minutes of game: Both play together.
Last 7 minutes of 1st quarter: Only Cade Plays
First 7 minutes of 2nd quarter: Only Ivey plays
Last 5 minutes of 2nd quarter: Both play together.
17 minutes played per half with each getting to start and finish the half and game, total 34 MPG each played this way but with 14 minutes played without the other and 20 minutes played together.

Honestly, having Cade, Ivey, and Ausar all be able to handle the ball and create for teammates could be a huge advantage for us you just have to make sure you keep letting all three develop. Let the vets be catch and shoot guys and let the young trio do them ball handling and shot creating.

Han Solo · Post #3 » by **Han Solo** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:25 pm

I think they will work together once things get evolving. It’s easy to say that won’t - but Pistons aren’t trading either. Take that to the bank.

joedumars1 · Post #4 » by **joedumars1** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:41 pm

bstein14 wrote:As long as they both are better at catch and shoot threes, they will pair fine together. I can see a point to try and offset their minutes to gives them both more time with the ball in their hands as they continue to develop. If that's the case, you simply play them for a few minutes to start the game together, and then have Ivey come out of the game first and then later have him return to give Cade a rest at the end of the first.

First 5 minutes of game: Both play together.
Last 7 minutes of 1st quarter: Only Cade Plays
First 7 minutes of 2nd quarter: Only Ivey plays
Last 5 minutes of 2nd quarter: Both play together.
17 minutes played per half with each getting to start and finish the half and game, total 34 MPG each played this way but with 14 minutes played without the other and 20 minutes played together.

Honestly, having Cade, Ivey, and Ausar all be able to handle the ball and create for teammates could be a huge advantage for us you just have to make sure you keep letting all three develop. Let the vets be catch and shoot guys and let the young trio do them ball handling and shot creating.

Thanks, putting it like that and showing the minutes makes me feel that it can work.

Invictus88 · Post #5 » by **Invictus88** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:51 pm

I hope my criticism of the Stewart signing ages horribly... and fast.

I have fewer concerns with this pairing (or trio now).

flow · Post #6 » by **flow** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:33 pm

I'm not a huge fan of Ivey's game. But even if I was, he's not on Cade's level. Out of sight, out of mind, I guess. It's time for Cade to get back on the floor. There's no decision to make here. See ya, Ivey.

But neither are going anywhere anytime soon.

Lyonfan1 · Post #7 » by **Lyonfan1** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:57 pm

The OP certainly has some reason for concern. It’s interesting how many want to give a pass to Duren, Ausar, Ivey and Cade (for now) as sure building blocks, but Stew and Wiseman have very little support around here.

Wiseman just turned 22 years old and posted 13 points and 8 boards over 25 games with Detroit, and in just 25 mpg. His defensive rating was middle of the pack with GS, and below average here, but in full tank mode who actually played D to finish out last year?

Stewart is a 22 year old that has played both 4 and 5 for us. At over 11 points and 8 rebs a game, and with improving 3 pt range, I wouldn’t be shocked to see 14 and 9-10 boards this year and 34% from deep.

Ausar being able to rebound, defend, pass the pace, and pass makes him a perfect point forward to compliment the lack of ball skills from the two above.

——- here is where I get nervous. Neither Ivey nor Cade have proven to be even decent 3 pt shooters, and even mid range isn’t lights out. Neither is a plus-plus passer or elite rebounder at G either.

I liked the suggestion of spacing their minutes a bit. I think Cade and Ausar is plenty of ball skill and a guy like monte could be an ideal low key compliment with his 39% shooting.

If Ivey got a lot of run with the second unit- lobs to Duren, pushing the pace…. And some shooters around him to kick out would make his knifing style more effective. Hardaway, Duren, Livers, J Harris and Ivey would be a dynamite 2nd unit and some minutes sprinkled in for Burks, Bagley, Sasser

I’m assuming we move on from Bogey soon given the Ausar hype and nobody refuting the trade rumors. Like ya future first for us to take on Hardway and MaGee contracts?

Rip32 · Post #8 » by **Rip32** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:58 pm

flow wrote:I'm not a huge fan of Ivey's game. But even if I was, he's not on Cade's level. Out of sight, out of mind, I guess. It's time for Cade to get back on the floor. There's no decision to make here. See ya, Ivey.

But neither are going anywhere anytime soon.

Me either! He's not a point and not great of a shooter for me. That's why I wanted Mathurin!
With Ausar being a point forward this should allow Cade to be more of a scorer and not limited to point guard duties

MotownMadness · Post #9 » by **MotownMadness** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 4:05 pm

My plan is if it doesn't work out you could probably always trade Ivey for a starting 2 and 4 to fill out the roster to your likings.
Of course i hope it works out though

NYPiston · Post #10 » by **NYPiston** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 4:16 pm

To even suggest trading Cade is blasphemy but I do have concerns with the Cade/Ivey fit and now Cade/Ivey/Ausar fit.
I think Ivey has a higher ceiling but I do wonder how much better Mathurin would have fit. Cade/Mathurin/Ausar just seems like a better blend of skills especially with Ausar showing the ability to be a secondary ballhandler if need be and making Ivey sort of redundant in that sense. The lack of long range shooting is a real concern too. The talent of the three is sky high but I
m skeptical about how it will mesh.

mattao313 · Post #11 » by **mattao313** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 4:19 pm

They're equal imo people act like Cade is God around here but he was really inefficient last season. He had a ton to prove this season. Ivey is terrible on defense, if he wants to be a legit starting caliber guard he needs to improve but people here really underrate him as a playmaker. He's probably the only guy on the that can consistently collapse a defense without having to pound the rock like Cade and is really good in the two man game with a big.

They both need to improve considerably before I start thinking of only committing to one or the other.

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Rip32 · Post #12 » by **Rip32** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 4:24 pm

mattao313 wrote:They're equal imo people act like Cade is God around here but he was really inefficient last season. He had a ton to prove this season. Ivey is terrible on defense, if he wants to be a legit starting caliber guard he needs to improve but people here really underrate him as a playmaker. He's probably the only guy on the that can consistently collapse a defense without having to pound the rock like Cade and is really good in the two man game with a big.

They both need to improve considerably before I start thinking of only committing to one or the other.

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Cade is a non athletic Grant Hill imo and the jury is still out on his health.

MotownMadness · Post #13 » by **MotownMadness** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 4:42 pm

mattao313 wrote:They're equal imo people act like Cade is God around here but he was really inefficient last season. He had a ton to prove this season. Ivey is terrible on defense, if he wants to be a legit starting caliber guard he needs to improve but people here really underrate him as a playmaker. He's probably the only guy on the that can consistently collapse a defense without having to pound the rock like Cade and is really good in the two man game with a big.

They both need to improve considerably before I start thinking of only committing to one or the other.

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Ivey can get Assist but Cade can really run a offense. Cade's shot probably comes around as well. He was a 40% 3pt shooter in college and is a great FT shooter.

vege · Post #14 » by **vege** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 5:11 pm

I don't think there's a need to move either. Cade showed a hell lot more than Ivey so if we needed to move one, this shouldn't even be debatable. Cade is by far the superior player.

Worst case scenario, Ivey doesn't develop well and he is a scorer off the bench, that's his floor imo and that's still an usefull NBA player, just not a great one. Best case scenario he is an All NBA player, but that's very unlikely.

Jordan Clarkson would be a usefull player for us (and most NBA teams) as a 3rd guard, and that's the worst case scenario for Ivey imo.

Right now we have Cade/Ausar/Duren as starters and Ivey/Stew as good bench players imo.

Livers is a serviceable 8-9th man if he can stay healthy, but not super important and easily replaceable by a vet on a minimum salary or the room exception.

The rest of the players are just not NBA Material (and will never be imo) or are too old, we're still several pieces away from doing something.

Post #15 » by **theBigLip** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 5:27 pm

They are still young. They are improving. Need to let them continue to grow. I think Ivey learned a lot last year. He’s going to be fine. And Cade obviously needs to stay healthy so we can see the real him.

Stewart and Wiseman? Stewart is a keeper, even w the new contract. Wiseman needs some minutes this year. As long as he keeps improving, I think he’s a long term keeper as well.

Cade/Sassar?
Ivey/???
Ausar/Livers
???/Stewart
Duren/Wiseman?

Sassar and Wiseman are question marks. Need a star PF and backup SG to add to the young core. Anyone not listed is tradeable.

Spider156 · Post #16 » by **Spider156** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 8:41 pm

If we’re trading one of Cade or Ivey we’re likely looking at getting Devin Booker or Jaylen Brown back in a trade.

Invictus88 · Post #17 » by **Invictus88** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:00 pm

Spider156 wrote:If we’re trading one of Cade or Ivey we’re likely looking at getting Devin Booker or Jaylen Brown back in a trade.

There's no way either Boston or Phoenix does this. Their fan bases would crucify them in fact.

Booker and Brown are established All-nba veterans. You would need to trade both Ivey and Cade to get one of them.

GreekAlex · Post #18 » by **GreekAlex** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:33 pm

Invictus88 wrote:
Spider156 wrote:If we’re trading one of Cade or Ivey we’re likely looking at getting Devin Booker or Jaylen Brown back in a trade.

There's no way either Boston or Phoenix does this. Their fan bases would crucify them in fact.

Booker and Brown are established All-nba veterans. You would need to trade both Ivey and Cade to get one of them.

It’s not worth speculating at this point. We have to see what we have first and how much of a jump Cade and Ivey take.

Brown is amazing but the new contract is going to be burdensome if he’s not in the right situation.

breezypeezy · Post #19 » by **breezypeezy** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:47 pm

Trading Cade talk would garner a 30 day suspension if I ran this joint. :lol:

Seriously though, no need to trade any of Cade, Ivey, Ausser or Duren till weve seen what they can do together.
This is like a solution in search of a problem!

MortSahlfan · Post #20 » by **MortSahlfan** » Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:50 pm

Who would I move? Ivey. Easy question, especially with Ausar here.

Three guys who like the ball in their hands will never work. Ausar is already a fine defender/rebounder and has crazy speed as he gets back on the defense, which is something a lot of guys don't do, or do it half-assed

I'd LOVE to see a poll. Would you post one?