Rank our 14 players in terms of impact on winning this season.

bstein14 · Post #1 » by **bstein14** » Sun Jul 23, 2023 3:43 am

Let's assume we're sticking with the 14 guys under contract, and won't make any other moves.

Rank them 1-14 in terms of what you expect their impact to be on winning basketball games for us this season. Or rank them 1-14 best to worst if that makes more sense. Not ranking by trade value or anything just what you expect them to bring this year.

1. Cade
2. Bojan
3. Stewart
4. Duren
5. Burks
6. Morris
------- (Winning basketball)
7. Ivey
8. Harris
9. Ausar
10. Livers
11. Bagley
12. Wiseman
13. Sasser
14. Hayes

I have a feeling I'll have Stewart higher than most, and perhaps Ausar lower than most... I think the top 6 play winning basketball and Ivey jumps forward to being real close to being an equal player but perhaps just below winning basketball with where his defense is. Part of me wants to put Ausar higher but history tells me its hard for most rookies to play winning basketball in year one.

Piston Pete · Post #2 » by **Piston Pete** » Sun Jul 23, 2023 4:12 am

1. Cade
2. Ivey
3. Bojan
4. Duren
5. Stewart
6. Morris
7. Burks
8. Harris
9. Bagley
10. Wiseman
11. Ausar
12. Livers
13. Hayes
14. Sasser

Post #3 » by **theBigLip** » Sun Jul 23, 2023 4:27 am

1. Cade
2. Ivey
3. Bojan
4. Duren
5. Stewart
6. Morris
7. Burks
8. Livers
9. Ausar
10. Harris
11. Wiseman
12. Bagley
13. Sassar
14. Hayes

tmorgan · Post #4 » by **tmorgan** » Sun Jul 23, 2023 4:28 am

I think Ausar plays immediate “winning basketball” because his role on offense will be limited for his first year. Transition buckets, offensive rebound buckets, and a green light to shoot only in the second half of blowouts. His defense looks like it’ll be high impact from day one, moreso than anyone else on the roster. So, with that in mind…

Tier 1 (high quality production):
Cade

Tier 2 (solid):
Duren
Ausar
Bojan
Stewart

Tier 3 (acceptable):
Ivey
Burks
Morris

Tier 4 (below average impact):
Harris
Livers
Bagley
Sasser

Tier 5 (just plain bad):
Wiseman
Hayes

Pharaoh · Post #5 » by **Pharaoh** » Sun Jul 23, 2023 4:45 am

1. Cade

2. Bojan
3. Duren
4. Stewart

5. Ivey
6. Morris
7. Burks
8. Ausar
9. Harris

10. Livers
11. Hayes

12. Wiseman

13. Bagley
14. Sasser

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breezypeezy · Post #6 » by **breezypeezy** » Sun Jul 23, 2023 6:18 am

Cade
Duren
Ivey
Bojan
Ausar
Morris
Harris
Bagley
Wiseman
Sasser
Stew
Burkes
Livers
Killian

Mr Peanut · Post #7 » by **Mr Peanut** » Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:56 am

Cade
Bojan
Duren
Ivey
Stewart
Morris
Ausar
Burks
Harris
Bagley
Livers
Wiseman
Killian
Sasser

I think this list might be a little dynamic as the season goes on. Like maybe Duren ends up being number 2 and Ausar is also higher.

joedumars1 · Post #8 » by **joedumars1** » Sun Jul 23, 2023 6:34 pm

1. Cade
2. Duren
3. Bojan
4. Ivey
5. Ausar (high expectations, defense, boards, hopefully shoot well)
6. Monte
7. Stew
8. Joe harris
The rest lol

Post #9 » by **Cowology** » Sun Jul 23, 2023 7:14 pm

I have to think about this, but real interesting to see the diversity of views. Ivey ranges from 2nd to about 7th/8th (below avg). We put the ball in his hands down the stretch last season, but we still have no clue what this is going to look like with Cade under Monte. I really don't know whose going to be handling the ball more.

If it were me I'd want Ivey pushing the ball in transition, but Cade running the half-court. Ivey turns into more of a cutter.

Cade isn't the guy you park in the corner or have play off the ball. You want him to have the ball in his hands. Ivey has to adapt to a different role when their minutes aren't staggered, imo. We'll see. *shrug*

Canadafan · Post #10 » by **Canadafan** » Sun Jul 23, 2023 7:29 pm

joedumars1 wrote:1. Cade
2. Duren
3. Bojan
4. Ivey
5. Ausar (high expectations, defense, boards, hopefully shoot well)
6. Monte
7. Stew
8. Joe harris
The rest lol

This looks right to me.

9. Burks
10.Wiseman
11.Bagley
12.Hayes

We need to trade Burks+Bagley(or Wiseman) with all available 2nd rounders immediately to get ourselves a forward that slots right behind Duren on that list

vege · Post #11 » by **vege** » Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:09 am

Last Season WS/48 rank them like this

Jalen Duren
Monte Morris
Alec Burks
Bojan Bogdanovic
Joe Harris
Marvin Bagley
Isaiah Stewart
James Wiseman
Isaiah Livers
Jaden Ivey
Killian Hayes
Cade Cunningham

Cade was injured and his WS/48 was worse than his rookie season (we won less games) so I would rank him higher. Probably between Wiseman and Stewart.

1 - Jalen Duren
2 - Monte Morris
3 - Alec Burks
4 - Bojan Bogdanovic
5- Joe Harris
6 - Isaiah Stewart
7 - Cade Cunningham
8 - James Wiseman
9 - Marvin Bagley
10 - Jaden Ivey
11 - Ausar Thompson
12 - Isaiah Livers
13 - Marcus Sasser
14 - Killian Hayes

So I am hoping for big improvements from Cade and Ivey.

If you want to rank them by VORP

Bojan Bogdanovic
Monte Morris
Alec Burks
Jalen Duren
Joe Harris
Marvin Babley
Cade Cunningham
Isaiah Stewart
Isaiah Livers
James Wiseman
Jaden Ivey
Killian Hayes

So for me the 7 players who should have positive impact are

Bojan Bogdanovic
Jalen Duren
Monte Morris
Alec Burks
Cade Cunningham
Joe Harris
Isaiah Stewart

After that the rest are kinda irrelevant. Ivey need to improve a lot on defense so he can be neutral. Livers doesn't play much, and rookies almost never have an impact so I don't expect much from Ausar. Wiseman, Bagley and Killian are clearly negative impact players and they do not help with winning basketball.

The main thing is, those top 7 players do not assemble a complete team. There are holes there. We have 7 decent players that don't fit well together, you can add Ivey and Ausar to that group and we're still lacking on defense and/or shooting and someone with size, mobility and the skillset to play the 4 for us.

ComboGuardCity · Post #12 » by **ComboGuardCity** » Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:51 am

From now on I’m calling him Jaded Ivey because you all are so jaded by our historically bad 15 years. He’s bound to take a leap and be our #2 guy

Pharaoh · Post #13 » by **Pharaoh** » Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:57 am

vege wrote:Last Season WS/48 rank them like this

Jalen Duren
Monte Morris
Alec Burks
Bojan Bogdanovic
Joe Harris
Marvin Bagley
Isaiah Stewart
James Wiseman
Isaiah Livers
Jaden Ivey
Killian Hayes
Cade Cunningham

Cade was injured and his WS/48 was worse than his rookie season (we won less games) so I would rank him higher. Probably between Wiseman and Stewart.

1 - Jalen Duren
2 - Monte Morris
3 - Alec Burks
4 - Bojan Bogdanovic
5- Joe Harris
6 - Isaiah Stewart
7 - Cade Cunningham
8 - James Wiseman
9 - Marvin Bagley
10 - Jaden Ivey
11 - Ausar Thompson
12 - Isaiah Livers
13 - Marcus Sasser
14 - Killian Hayes

So I am hoping for big improvements from Cade and Ivey.

If you want to rank them by VORP

Bojan Bogdanovic
Monte Morris
Alec Burks
Jalen Duren
Joe Harris
Marvin Babley
Cade Cunningham
Isaiah Stewart
Isaiah Livers
James Wiseman
Jaden Ivey
Killian Hayes

So for me the 7 players who should have positive impact are

Bojan Bogdanovic
Jalen Duren
Monte Morris
Alec Burks
Cade Cunningham
Joe Harris
Isaiah Stewart

After that the rest are kinda irrelevant. Ivey need to improve a lot on defense so he can be neutral. Livers doesn't play much, and rookies almost never have an impact so I don't expect much from Ausar. Wiseman, Bagley and Killian are clearly negative impact players and they do not help with winning basketball.

The main thing is, those top 7 players do not assemble a complete team. There are holes there. We have 7 decent players that don't fit well together, you can add Ivey and Ausar to that group and we're still lacking on defense and/or shooting and someone with size, mobility and the skillset to play the 4 for us.

On your top 7:

Duren, Bojan, Harris, Burks, Cade with Morris & Stewart next in would be a really interesting line up IF Harris and Bojan could just be average defensively

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vege · Post #14 » by **vege** » Mon Jul 24, 2023 4:18 am

Pharaoh wrote:
vege wrote:Last Season WS/48 rank them like this

Jalen Duren
Monte Morris
Alec Burks
Bojan Bogdanovic
Joe Harris
Marvin Bagley
Isaiah Stewart
James Wiseman
Isaiah Livers
Jaden Ivey
Killian Hayes
Cade Cunningham

Cade was injured and his WS/48 was worse than his rookie season (we won less games) so I would rank him higher. Probably between Wiseman and Stewart.

1 - Jalen Duren
2 - Monte Morris
3 - Alec Burks
4 - Bojan Bogdanovic
5- Joe Harris
6 - Isaiah Stewart
7 - Cade Cunningham
8 - James Wiseman
9 - Marvin Bagley
10 - Jaden Ivey
11 - Ausar Thompson
12 - Isaiah Livers
13 - Marcus Sasser
14 - Killian Hayes

So I am hoping for big improvements from Cade and Ivey.

If you want to rank them by VORP

Bojan Bogdanovic
Monte Morris
Alec Burks
Jalen Duren
Joe Harris
Marvin Babley
Cade Cunningham
Isaiah Stewart
Isaiah Livers
James Wiseman
Jaden Ivey
Killian Hayes

So for me the 7 players who should have positive impact are

Bojan Bogdanovic
Jalen Duren
Monte Morris
Alec Burks
Cade Cunningham
Joe Harris
Isaiah Stewart

After that the rest are kinda irrelevant. Ivey need to improve a lot on defense so he can be neutral. Livers doesn't play much, and rookies almost never have an impact so I don't expect much from Ausar. Wiseman, Bagley and Killian are clearly negative impact players and they do not help with winning basketball.

The main thing is, those top 7 players do not assemble a complete team. There are holes there. We have 7 decent players that don't fit well together, you can add Ivey and Ausar to that group and we're still lacking on defense and/or shooting and someone with size, mobility and the skillset to play the 4 for us.

On your top 7:

Duren, Bojan, Harris, Burks, Cade with Morris & Stewart next in would be a really interesting line up IF Harris and Bojan could just be average defensively

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If Bojan was average defensively he would be an all nba player. He is very bad on defense, and Harris is not good either. I would start Monte Morris over Burks in that scenario.

Pharaoh · Post #15 » by **Pharaoh** » Mon Jul 24, 2023 4:34 am

vege wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:
vege wrote:Last Season WS/48 rank them like this

Jalen Duren
Monte Morris
Alec Burks
Bojan Bogdanovic
Joe Harris
Marvin Bagley
Isaiah Stewart
James Wiseman
Isaiah Livers
Jaden Ivey
Killian Hayes
Cade Cunningham

Cade was injured and his WS/48 was worse than his rookie season (we won less games) so I would rank him higher. Probably between Wiseman and Stewart.

1 - Jalen Duren
2 - Monte Morris
3 - Alec Burks
4 - Bojan Bogdanovic
5- Joe Harris
6 - Isaiah Stewart
7 - Cade Cunningham
8 - James Wiseman
9 - Marvin Bagley
10 - Jaden Ivey
11 - Ausar Thompson
12 - Isaiah Livers
13 - Marcus Sasser
14 - Killian Hayes

So I am hoping for big improvements from Cade and Ivey.

If you want to rank them by VORP

Bojan Bogdanovic
Monte Morris
Alec Burks
Jalen Duren
Joe Harris
Marvin Babley
Cade Cunningham
Isaiah Stewart
Isaiah Livers
James Wiseman
Jaden Ivey
Killian Hayes

So for me the 7 players who should have positive impact are

Bojan Bogdanovic
Jalen Duren
Monte Morris
Alec Burks
Cade Cunningham
Joe Harris
Isaiah Stewart

After that the rest are kinda irrelevant. Ivey need to improve a lot on defense so he can be neutral. Livers doesn't play much, and rookies almost never have an impact so I don't expect much from Ausar. Wiseman, Bagley and Killian are clearly negative impact players and they do not help with winning basketball.

The main thing is, those top 7 players do not assemble a complete team. There are holes there. We have 7 decent players that don't fit well together, you can add Ivey and Ausar to that group and we're still lacking on defense and/or shooting and someone with size, mobility and the skillset to play the 4 for us.

On your top 7:

Duren, Bojan, Harris, Burks, Cade with Morris & Stewart next in would be a really interesting line up IF Harris and Bojan could just be average defensively

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If Bojan was average defensively he would be an all nba player. He is very bad on defense, and Harris is not good either. I would start Monte Morris over Burks in that scenario.

True that.

BTW if you were to include Ausar & Ivey in your top 9 we have the same 9 dudes

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vege · Post #16 » by **vege** » Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:13 am

Pharaoh wrote:
vege wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:
On your top 7:

Duren, Bojan, Harris, Burks, Cade with Morris & Stewart next in would be a really interesting line up IF Harris and Bojan could just be average defensively

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

If Bojan was average defensively he would be an all nba player. He is very bad on defense, and Harris is not good either. I would start Monte Morris over Burks in that scenario.
True that.

BTW if you were to include Ausar & Ivey in your top 9 we have the same 9 dudes

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Let's hope Monty Williams agree with us, and don't start Wiseman over Duren.

Pharaoh · Post #17 » by **Pharaoh** » Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:57 am

vege wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:
vege wrote:
If Bojan was average defensively he would be an all nba player. He is very bad on defense, and Harris is not good either. I would start Monte Morris over Burks in that scenario.
True that.

BTW if you were to include Ausar & Ivey in your top 9 we have the same 9 dudes

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

Let's hope Monty Williams agree with us, and don't start Wiseman over Duren.

Hopefully!

Unless the new coaching staff can fix him in training camp he shouldn't even be in a 9 or 10 man rotation

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Pharaoh · Post #18 » by **Pharaoh** » Mon Jul 24, 2023 8:29 am

9 man rotation for "winning":

Duren 30 Stewart 18
Bojan 32 Stewart 10 Ausar 6
Ausar 22 Harris 20 Cade 6
Ivey 28 Burks 20
Cade 26 Morris 22

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SuperBad · Post #19 » by **SuperBad** » Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:32 am

If wiseman is on the roster there going to give him 12-18 minutes if he has a good attitude, there’s way too much potential and not enough time to let him sit another year, this like Killian is the make or break year, Killian needs to outplay someone, but I beg Wiseman gets at least 12min a game

Billl · Post #20 » by **Billl** » Mon Jul 24, 2023 2:14 pm

Most of the young guys are still going to be making a ton of mistakes, and that will cost us as many games than their talent will help win.