Someone had to do it…

[theBigLip]

Houston offers KP jr + 2024 unprotected first for Bagley. KP jr never plays a game for us - gets suspended for this season and his remaining contract is not guaranteed.

Yes or no?

[zeebneeb]

Houston offers KP jr + 2024 unprotected first for Bagley. KP jr never plays a game for us - gets suspended for this season and his remaining contract is not guaranteed.

Yes or no?

I doubt they would include an unprotected pick, but if it was, absolutely.

[mattao313]

Why would Houston offer a unprotected 1st? This deal heavily favors the Pistons.

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[theBigLip]

Of course it favors the Pistons. Houston washes their hands of a bad situation.

So would you do it if it were a 2nd round pick? I wouldn’t.

[Cowology]

I actually like Bagley so I'm not looking to dump him. A 2nd wouldn't get it done.

Buuuuut we do have a logjam and with the 1st this is as clean a solution as we'd find. I'd think HOU would want some protection on that pick though. They don't *have* to trade KPJ for his career there to be finished. They can be patient, wait a year and save the asset. Is Bagley that big an incentive?

[Pharaoh]

Houston offers KP jr + 2024 unprotected first for Bagley. KP jr never plays a game for us - gets suspended for this season and his remaining contract is not guaranteed.

Yes or no?

Why would they trade him?

His contract for this season will most likely be voided due to his charges. If not he'll be suspended and not paid anyway.

The rest of his contract = team options that they'll decline.

That's how they wash their hands of him.

There's no need for them to trade a pick of any kind to get that accomplished

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[Uncle Mxy]

I'd do it hypothetically. But, it ain't gonna play that way. Where's Miles Bridges, again? The victim has signaled that she's not going to be a cooperative witness with anyone:

https://balleralert.com/profiles/blogs/former-wnba-player-kysre-gondrezick-sets-record-straight/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

My hunch is that she's going to do what it takes to get some money out of this awful situation. The way to do that is for KPJr to get paid. The best revenge is living well.

[Mr Peanut]

Yes you'd do it from a value standpoint. But Houston also doesn't own the rights to their 2024 pick so it's a moot point.

[bstein14]

His contract is actually going to be somewhat sought after because it could save an owner a ton of money. A suspended player doesn't count against the salary cap or luxury tax. He's likely going to be suspended for all (or at least most) of this season and then he can get cleared off the books completely next year. (only $1 million is guaranteed for next year and then nothing after that). A bunch of teams would be willing to send unwanting players/contracts to get a deal like that with no intentions of ever having him join the team or play for them.

From a pure cap space standpoint, a straight up trade of Bagley for KP Jr makes a lot of sense for Detroit saving them a bunch of money this year and next.... assuming that Wiseman is going to beat out Bagley for that backup C spot its a no brainer to do the swap without any picks involved.

[zeebneeb]

His contract is actually going to be somewhat sought after because it could save an owner a ton of money. A suspended player doesn't count against the salary cap or luxury tax. He's likely going to be suspended for all (or at least most) of this season and then he can get cleared off the books completely next year. (only $1 million is guaranteed for next year and then nothing after that). A bunch of teams would be willing to send unwanting players/contracts to get a deal like that with no intentions of ever having him join the team or play for them.

From a pure cap space standpoint, a straight up trade of Bagley for KP Jr makes a lot of sense for Detroit saving them a bunch of money this year and next.... assuming that Wiseman is going to beat out Bagley for that backup C spot its a no brainer to do the swap without any picks involved.

I've said it before, and ill say it again;

We are in an era, where capspace for teams like Detroit mean almost next to nothing. Any possibly good free agents sign extensions before they hit the market, and whats left gets overpaid, and isn't worth the contract, or if one does slip through the extension process, the likelihood of them signing in Detroit is extreme low.

Pass. Picks, or bust. We are in an era of homegrown talent for teams not named the Lakers, Heat, or any other warm climate spot. You can fill out your own descending order.

Capspace can be utilized in trades, thats it.

[Snakebites]

Only the current year of the deal is fully guaranteed.

They’d simply buy him out or send him home if they don’t find a viable trade before offering this much just to get rid of him. That’s what I’d expect us to do if we made this trade- so why wouldn’t they?

No way you get a protected first let alone unprotected.

[Billl]

I don't think houston even has their own pick this year. They have brooklyns though. Anyway, I can't imagine they attach a 1st to move him. They can just sit him while the charges are being resolved and not pay him. Then just don't exercise the options on the rest of the years.

Obviously, if they offered a 1st for bagley, we should take that and run. Houston is actually trying to win though, so I don't see why they would have any interest in him.

[theBigLip]

Only the current year of the deal is fully guaranteed.

They’d simply buy him out or send him home if they don’t find a viable trade before offering this much just to get rid of him. That’s what I’d expect us to do if we made this trade- so why wouldn’t they?

No way you get a protected first let alone unprotected.

So it was in the wiretap that Houston was trying to move him. I agree it doesn’t make a lot of sense unless the just didn’t want the PR nightmare. I obviously just made up the unprotected first as a proposal. It would more likely be a 2nd. I guess if we knew Wiseman was going to beat out Bagley, it would save us cap room next year.

And cap room is DIFFERENT now, but not worthless. I would say free agency is worthless. But cap space gives a team maneuverability. We didn’t do a great job of using ours last year, but still better to have. And next summer, with the second apron kicking in, it may be very beneficial.

[Pharaoh]

Only the current year of the deal is fully guaranteed.

They’d simply buy him out or send him home if they don’t find a viable trade before offering this much just to get rid of him. That’s what I’d expect us to do if we made this trade- so why wouldn’t they?

No way you get a protected first let alone unprotected.

So it was in the wiretap that Houston was trying to move him. I agree it doesn’t make a lot of sense unless the just didn’t want the PR nightmare. I obviously just made up the unprotected first as a proposal. It would more likely be a 2nd. I guess if we knew Wiseman was going to beat out Bagley, it would save us cap room next year.

And cap room is DIFFERENT now, but not worthless. I would say free agency is worthless. But cap space gives a team maneuverability. We didn’t do a great job of using ours last year, but still better to have. And next summer, with the second apron kicking in, it may be very beneficial.

Agree cap room is different now

I think the 2nd apron thing is part of the reason Weaver kicked the can down the road.

Atlanta dumped Collins because of it.

Boston won't be able to afford Tatum, Brown and Porzingis.

Brooklyn have Claxton to retain and still have the Ben Simmons situation hanging over them.

Charlotte will likely deal Hayward or let him walk despite paying no one except Ball.

Chicago will have to make a decision on their direction over the next 6-9 months.

Cleveland have Mitchell's pending free agency hanging over their head.

Could go on but what we might see is the MLE kind of guys getting squeezed out of some teams for very little return - like the Grant Williams S&T

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[bstein14]

Only the current year of the deal is fully guaranteed.

They’d simply buy him out or send him home if they don’t find a viable trade before offering this much just to get rid of him. That’s what I’d expect us to do if we made this trade- so why wouldn’t they?

No way you get a protected first let alone unprotected.

So it was in the wiretap that Houston was trying to move him. I agree it doesn’t make a lot of sense unless the just didn’t want the PR nightmare. I obviously just made up the unprotected first as a proposal. It would more likely be a 2nd. I guess if we knew Wiseman was going to beat out Bagley, it would save us cap room next year.

And cap room is DIFFERENT now, but not worthless. I would say free agency is worthless. But cap space gives a team maneuverability. We didn’t do a great job of using ours last year, but still better to have. And next summer, with the second apron kicking in, it may be very beneficial.

Agree cap room is different now

I think the 2nd apron thing is part of the reason Weaver kicked the can down the road.

Atlanta dumped Collins because of it.

Boston won't be able to afford Tatum, Brown and Porzingis.

Brooklyn have Claxton to retain and still have the Ben Simmons situation hanging over them.

Charlotte will likely deal Hayward or let him walk despite paying no one except Ball.

Chicago will have to make a decision on their direction over the next 6-9 months.

Cleveland have Mitchell's pending free agency hanging over their head.

Could go on but what we might see is the MLE kind of guys getting squeezed out of some teams for very little return - like the Grant Williams S&T

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Not sure what the full breakdown normally is, but if you consider 450 players (30 teams by 15 per team, so not counting two-way guys)

100 Players make $17+ milllion
57 Players make $10 million - $16.9 million
43 Players make $7 million to $9.9 million (lots of these are rookie scale guys)
250 players make $6.9 million per year or less

On average.... Most teams are carrying 3 guys in the high teens to Max contract range.
On average.... Most teams have 3 guys in the $7 to $17 million range
On average.... Most teams have everyone else outside their top 6 making $7 million or less.

If Weaver is handing out $10+ million deals to players they really need to be top six type guys on a roster or we're overpaying compared to the mean.

[Cowology]

So it was in the wiretap that Houston was trying to move him. I agree it doesn’t make a lot of sense unless the just didn’t want the PR nightmare. I obviously just made up the unprotected first as a proposal. It would more likely be a 2nd. I guess if we knew Wiseman was going to beat out Bagley, it would save us cap room next year.

And cap room is DIFFERENT now, but not worthless. I would say free agency is worthless. But cap space gives a team maneuverability. We didn’t do a great job of using ours last year, but still better to have. And next summer, with the second apron kicking in, it may be very beneficial.

Agree cap room is different now

I think the 2nd apron thing is part of the reason Weaver kicked the can down the road.

Atlanta dumped Collins because of it.

Boston won't be able to afford Tatum, Brown and Porzingis.

Brooklyn have Claxton to retain and still have the Ben Simmons situation hanging over them.

Charlotte will likely deal Hayward or let him walk despite paying no one except Ball.

Chicago will have to make a decision on their direction over the next 6-9 months.

Cleveland have Mitchell's pending free agency hanging over their head.

Could go on but what we might see is the MLE kind of guys getting squeezed out of some teams for very little return - like the Grant Williams S&T

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

Not sure what the full breakdown normally is, but if you consider 450 players (30 teams by 15 per team, so not counting two-way guys)

100 Players make $17+ milllion
57 Players make $10 million - $16.9 million
43 Players make $7 million to $9.9 million (lots of these are rookie scale guys)
250 players make $6.9 million per year or less

On average.... Most teams are carrying 3 guys in the high teens to Max contract range.
On average.... Most teams have 3 guys in the $7 to $17 million range
On average.... Most teams have everyone else outside their top 6 making $7 million or less.

If Weaver is handing out $10+ million deals to players they really need to be top six type guys on a roster or we're overpaying compared to the mean.

What's the positional breakdown? Bigs have cost more for a long as I've been a Piston fan. I'm curious how much that's shifted in the modern era. In a vacuum I'd still asume the median salary for an avg 4/5 to be higher than that of a comparable 1/2/3. It's just a supply/demand thing. Bigs are harder to find.

[Canadafan]

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1702396724210266128?s=20

[Pharaoh]

So it was in the wiretap that Houston was trying to move him. I agree it doesn’t make a lot of sense unless the just didn’t want the PR nightmare. I obviously just made up the unprotected first as a proposal. It would more likely be a 2nd. I guess if we knew Wiseman was going to beat out Bagley, it would save us cap room next year.

And cap room is DIFFERENT now, but not worthless. I would say free agency is worthless. But cap space gives a team maneuverability. We didn’t do a great job of using ours last year, but still better to have. And next summer, with the second apron kicking in, it may be very beneficial.

Agree cap room is different now

I think the 2nd apron thing is part of the reason Weaver kicked the can down the road.

Atlanta dumped Collins because of it.

Boston won't be able to afford Tatum, Brown and Porzingis.

Brooklyn have Claxton to retain and still have the Ben Simmons situation hanging over them.

Charlotte will likely deal Hayward or let him walk despite paying no one except Ball.

Chicago will have to make a decision on their direction over the next 6-9 months.

Cleveland have Mitchell's pending free agency hanging over their head.

Could go on but what we might see is the MLE kind of guys getting squeezed out of some teams for very little return - like the Grant Williams S&T

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

Not sure what the full breakdown normally is, but if you consider 450 players (30 teams by 15 per team, so not counting two-way guys)

100 Players make $17+ milllion
57 Players make $10 million - $16.9 million
43 Players make $7 million to $9.9 million (lots of these are rookie scale guys)
250 players make $6.9 million per year or less

On average.... Most teams are carrying 3 guys in the high teens to Max contract range.
On average.... Most teams have 3 guys in the $7 to $17 million range
On average.... Most teams have everyone else outside their top 6 making $7 million or less.

If Weaver is handing out $10+ million deals to players they really need to be top six type guys on a roster or we're overpaying compared to the mean.

How many dudes going forward will get "overpaid" on some teams just so they can hit the salary floor?

If not for the salary floor does Houston sign FVV to that contract? After drafting Amen to be their PG!

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[mattao313]

Agree cap room is different now

I think the 2nd apron thing is part of the reason Weaver kicked the can down the road.

Atlanta dumped Collins because of it.

Boston won't be able to afford Tatum, Brown and Porzingis.

Brooklyn have Claxton to retain and still have the Ben Simmons situation hanging over them.

Charlotte will likely deal Hayward or let him walk despite paying no one except Ball.

Chicago will have to make a decision on their direction over the next 6-9 months.

Cleveland have Mitchell's pending free agency hanging over their head.

Could go on but what we might see is the MLE kind of guys getting squeezed out of some teams for very little return - like the Grant Williams S&T

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

Not sure what the full breakdown normally is, but if you consider 450 players (30 teams by 15 per team, so not counting two-way guys)

100 Players make $17+ milllion
57 Players make $10 million - $16.9 million
43 Players make $7 million to $9.9 million (lots of these are rookie scale guys)
250 players make $6.9 million per year or less

On average.... Most teams are carrying 3 guys in the high teens to Max contract range.
On average.... Most teams have 3 guys in the $7 to $17 million range
On average.... Most teams have everyone else outside their top 6 making $7 million or less.

If Weaver is handing out $10+ million deals to players they really need to be top six type guys on a roster or we're overpaying compared to the mean.

What's the positional breakdown? Bigs have cost more for a long as I've been a Piston fan. I'm curious how much that's shifted in the modern era. In a vacuum I'd still asume the median salary for an avg 4/5 to be higher than that of a comparable 1/2/3. It's just a supply/demand thing. Bigs are harder to find.

Hard disagree bigs are probably the least valuable position right now besides Superstar level players. Wings are infinitely more valuable that's why so many teams play small.

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[Uncle Mxy]

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In the 5 stages of grief model, the third stage is bargaining. The last stage is why he'll stay right where he is. That, and a victim who is not cooperating.