RealGM

It’s only been six games but it has also become clear Jaden has the shortest leash on the entire team. Even in a game he seemingly played well against the Pelicans, Monty only referenced Hayes, Sasser and Cade playing well and needing more minutes together.

What do you think his future in Detroit? Do you feel like we’re squandering talent? Is Monty playing the long game where Ivey ultimately comes out a Star

It's odd even when he's on the floor they play him as a off ball player mostly he doesn't handle the ball much at all. Monty let's other guys play through mistakes I wonder what the actual problem is.

Sent from my SM-A528B using RealGM mobile app

Aside from the “what level player” you think he is or will be, I think the end game is we trade him.

I really hope with Ivey we don't let him have too short of a leash where he ends up being run out of the city and into a new team as a result. I get that Monty has his system and has his guys but to not play our former 5th overall pick more than 25 mins coming off of a tanking rookie season yet showing bright spots is bit of a tough swallow

I'm hoping this initial 10 to 20 games are an experiment for Monty and to see what we got with our more defensive minded guys like Stew, Hayes, Ausar and come all-star break all of this will have been a mirage

That's the hope though

Traded should be by its self. He’s a good offensive player he’s already proved that. He doesn’t fit what Monty wants. I hope he is trade sooner rather than later for everyone’s benefit.

I think some of this stuff is just overreaction. Ivey's future in Detroit will be fine if plays smarter basketball, and he's young and talented. Look, I don't watch every minute of the Pistons, but I think Sasser is an overall better player than Ivey, despite the talent gap between the two. Long term, Ivey's ceiling is much higher, but these past few years of handing over PT on the basis of when you were drafted needed to end.

Now I wish I had some answers for why Killian is still starting...And can anyone argue that 30 million on Joe Harris is even remotely better than a failure?

But for Ivey he's fine.

Traded.

It's a shame because he does have connections to the city and wants to be here. He looked good down the stretch last season and will likely have a very good career, should be remain healthy.

But it's a bad fit/timing and we have some very specific needs that we may be able to address by leveraging Ivey's value.

If he moves into the starting lineup and looks great next to Cade then maybe we hit the pause on that, but otherwise I hope we move him by the deadline. I expect value though. If it's not there, then don't give it away.

I think Ivey is fine on our team if he defends.... and we lose some of the other non shooters to help space the floor for him. He's shown a great ability to get to the basket and a great ability to kick out to open 3 point shooters.... he just needs to play with three point shooters. He doesn't fit great playing with non shooters like Killian, Diallo, etc. He could do some real damage IMO with a healthy bench.

C: Bagley
PF: Harris
SF: Burks
SG: Ivey
PG: Morris

I want to see what he looks like with that lineup. ... or Livers instead of Harris is also a possible move for us. I feel like Ivey could/would really excel with that group.

bstein14 wrote:I think Ivey is fine on our team if he defends.... and we lose some of the other non shooters to help space the floor for him. He's shown a great ability to get to the basket and a great ability to kick out to open 3 point shooters.... he just needs to play with three point shooters. He doesn't fit great playing with non shooters like Killian, Diallo, etc. He could do some real damage IMO with a healthy bench.

C: Bagley
PF: Harris
SF: Burks
SG: Ivey
PG: Morris

I want to see what he looks like with that lineup. ... or Livers instead of Harris is also a possible move for us. I feel like Ivey could/would really excel with that group.

Fair point.

Not everyone’s got to be a dead eye shooter to make Cade successful. The Heat just made the finals with only 1 player shooting over 36%.

ComboGuardCity wrote:Not everyone’s got to be a dead eye shooter to make Cade successful. The Heat just made the finals with only 1 player shooting over 36%.

I think Ivey is showing he’s a shooter. He shot 34% from three last year and ended it well and has started this year at 40% from three.

It’s just his defense. We should get really good value for him.

ComboGuardCity wrote:Not everyone’s got to be a dead eye shooter to make Cade successful. The Heat just made the finals with only 1 player shooting over 36%.

The Heat's shooting was notoriously bad in the regular season and was a major reason they struggled then.

Their shooting came alive on multiple fronts in the playoffs. If anything the differential between the team we saw in the playoffs and the one we saw in the regular season speaks to the importance of 3 point shooting.

It should be as a key starter alongside Duren/Ausar/Cade. I get that Monty is trying to make a point about defense, but then he plays guys like Harris or Burks in crunch time over Ivey.

It's early in the season but if this treatment continues then I can see Ivey wanting out at some stage and you can't really blame him.

Snakebites wrote:

ComboGuardCity wrote:Not everyone’s got to be a dead eye shooter to make Cade successful. The Heat just made the finals with only 1 player shooting over 36%.

The Heat's shooting was notoriously bad in the regular season and was a major reason they struggled then.

Their shooting came alive on multiple fronts in the playoffs. If anything the differential between the team we saw in the playoffs and the one we saw in the regular season speaks to the importance of 3 point shooting.

And their starters still only had one guy over 36% in the playoffs. Ivey is already showing progress as a shooter. My point is shooting should not be a deterrent to start Ivey. If we’re building around Cade, he needs to be an above average shooter too. Otherwise we aren’t going anywhere anyways. He’s not Lebron and he’s not Giannis.

Our best bet, imo, is to have two ball handlers in the back court that allows both of them to take the load off at times, but also forces both of them to play defense.

ComboGuardCity wrote:

Snakebites wrote:

ComboGuardCity wrote:Not everyone’s got to be a dead eye shooter to make Cade successful. The Heat just made the finals with only 1 player shooting over 36%.

The Heat's shooting was notoriously bad in the regular season and was a major reason they struggled then.

Their shooting came alive on multiple fronts in the playoffs. If anything the differential between the team we saw in the playoffs and the one we saw in the regular season speaks to the importance of 3 point shooting.

And their starters still only had one guy over 36% in the playoffs. Ivey is already showing progress as a shooter. My point is shooting should not be a deterrent to start Ivey. If we’re building around Cade, he needs to be an above average shooter too. Otherwise we aren’t going anywhere anyways. He’s not Lebron and he’s not Giannis.

Our best bet, imo, is to have two ball handlers in the back court that allows both of them to take the load off at times, but also forces both of them to play defense.

They had Gabe Vincent and Kevin Love. They also had Duncan Robinson and Caleb Martin as big shooters off the bench who saw major upticks.

They were a much better shooting team in the playoffs than the regular season. It’s a big part of what my they went from mediocre to very good in the regular season.

The Heat went from very good from three (the best by percentage)to subpar in the regular season from 21-22 to 22-23 and it majorly contributed to their decline as a team in the regular season. I’d choose a different team to make the case that threes aren’t important.

ComboGuardCity wrote:

Snakebites wrote:

ComboGuardCity wrote:Not everyone’s got to be a dead eye shooter to make Cade successful. The Heat just made the finals with only 1 player shooting over 36%.

The Heat's shooting was notoriously bad in the regular season and was a major reason they struggled then.

Their shooting came alive on multiple fronts in the playoffs. If anything the differential between the team we saw in the playoffs and the one we saw in the regular season speaks to the importance of 3 point shooting.

And their starters still only had one guy over 36% in the playoffs. Ivey is already showing progress as a shooter. My point is shooting should not be a deterrent to start Ivey. If we’re building around Cade, he needs to be an above average shooter too. Otherwise we aren’t going anywhere anyways. He’s not Lebron and he’s not Giannis.

Our best bet, imo, is to have two ball handlers in the back court that allows both of them to take the load off at times, but also forces both of them to play defense.

Ivey's outside shot is fine. I don't think anyone thinks that's a reason he's not getting more playing time. It's more likely defense and stupid turnovers (though obviously there are other guys who have those same problems and get more play). Not sure what else might be going on, but I haven't given up on the idea of developing him yet.

They are going to trade him and go full heliocentric offense with Cade. Buckle up.

Not sure Cade's ready for that workload, honestly. He was gassed down the stretch against the Blazers and was missing bunnies.

Kalamazoo317 wrote:

ComboGuardCity wrote:

Snakebites wrote:The Heat's shooting was notoriously bad in the regular season and was a major reason they struggled then.

Their shooting came alive on multiple fronts in the playoffs. If anything the differential between the team we saw in the playoffs and the one we saw in the regular season speaks to the importance of 3 point shooting.

And their starters still only had one guy over 36% in the playoffs. Ivey is already showing progress as a shooter. My point is shooting should not be a deterrent to start Ivey. If we’re building around Cade, he needs to be an above average shooter too. Otherwise we aren’t going anywhere anyways. He’s not Lebron and he’s not Giannis.

Our best bet, imo, is to have two ball handlers in the back court that allows both of them to take the load off at times, but also forces both of them to play defense.

Ivey's outside shot is fine. I don't think anyone thinks that's a reason he's not getting more playing time. It's more likely defense and stupid turnovers (though obviously there are other guys who have those same problems and get more play). Not sure what else might be going on, but I haven't given up on the idea of developing him yet.

I'm not sure why anyone thinks it's shooting that is the reason Ivey isn't starting.

Killian is the guy starting in his place. That makes the reason self explanatory.

I was just pushing back on the notion that shooting in the starting lineup isn't important in the general sense.

I can’t count that number of posts that have complained about Ivey’s D last year. And they were justified. We now get a legit coach that wants to emphasize D. I’m pretty sure Williams can see Ivey’s athleticism and knows he can coach him up to be a great two way player. And he’s doing that. And I’m confident Ivey will respond and later this season he’ll be starting. I don’t think he’s going anywhere unless we get a crazy good trade offer.

I cant explain everyone else’s minutes and the rotation in general. We are a work in progress for sure. And we are still missing 3 rotation players which is going to complicate things even more. But I’m happy to be patient and see how things go this year.

And there will be trades this year. But I don’t think Ivey will be one of those moved.