RealGM

We have a long way to go for this season. I assume there will be “some” improvement in both of them, but nothing hugely different.

Hayes is more valuable for sure, but they are both in similar situations:
* neither are worth their options for next year $9M for Hayes and $15M for Wiseman.
* Hayes is worth more than a minimum salary, and Wiseman too (sort of) if one thinks there is still some potential, even if it were to take another year or two.

So here’s the question- what would you be willing to offer them? Or just let them walk and get nothing in return?

Nothing to Wiseman

Probably nothing to Killian either. Only way we consider keeping him is if Ivey is dealt somewhere for an upgrade at SF/PF. He really doesn’t provide much, could easily be replaced for cheaper than what he might want.

Serious, Weaver needs to cut his losing moves/drafted players.

Plenty of more talented players in the NBA that can help this team win ballgames.

Weaver lives by GM wishful thinking, that's why he has about a dozen NBA draft bust reclamation projects thus far....

Piston Pete wrote:Nothing to Wiseman

Probably nothing to Killian either. Only way we consider keeping him is if Ivey is dealt somewhere for an upgrade at SF/PF. He really doesn’t provide much, could easily be replaced for cheaper than what he might want.

Both will be RFAs if we extend QOs but I don't think we should extend a QO to either player... let them both become UFAs... maximize our cap space. If someone signs one of them no big deal on our end better FAs will be out there.

bstein14 wrote:

Piston Pete wrote:Nothing to Wiseman

Probably nothing to Killian either. Only way we consider keeping him is if Ivey is dealt somewhere for an upgrade at SF/PF. He really doesn’t provide much, could easily be replaced for cheaper than what he might want.

Both will be RFAs if we extend QOs but I don't think we should extend a QO to either player... let them both become UFAs... maximize our cap space. If someone signs one of them no big deal on our end better FAs will be out there.

THIS

Strictly no QOs for either.

Killian would have to go on a hell of a hot streak to be worth it and Wiseman can’t do anything at this point to realistically become worth the QO.

If we get offered a second rounder or two at the deadline for Killian we should take it and run (I'm probably being optimistic though).

No one is offering anything for Wiseman. He will expire at the end of the season and that will be it.

Mr Peanut wrote:If we get offered a second rounder or two at the deadline for Killian we should take it and run (I'm probably being optimistic though).

No one is offering anything for Wiseman. He will expire at the end of the season and that will be it.

Never say never. If a contending team gets hit with an injury bug and need another big body, I could see them taking on Wiseman and his expiring deal as a fill-in rental.

Gimme 2nds for both

Piston Pete wrote:

Mr Peanut wrote:If we get offered a second rounder or two at the deadline for Killian we should take it and run (I'm probably being optimistic though).

No one is offering anything for Wiseman. He will expire at the end of the season and that will be it.

Never say never. If a contending team gets hit with an injury bug and need another big body, I could see them taking on Wiseman and his expiring deal as a fill-in rental.

Gimme 2nds for both

Never say never, but a contending team that is most likely in the luxury tax isn't going to take on Wiseman's 12M salary (which could cost them 20-30M+ with luxury tax bills taken into account) when they could most likely find a guy who can do the job better on a vet min.

I like Killian Hayes, but he has to become consistent before I sweat losing him in free agency. Most likely his production can be replaced with the likes of Monte Morris or other similar quality vet guard. Those guys can be found in trades or free agency without too much trouble. In a vacuum, what do I think a "slightly better than today" Killian Hayes will be worth as a free agent? 3 years / 20M to be a backup point guard. If he improves and builds upon his offense throughout the season he can get more.

Wiseman? That's a tough one because he isn't even playing for us. I think he could get a minimum contract fairly easily. Maybe a 2 year / $10M deal with the second year team option or something if a team thinks they can "unlock him" like Weaver did.

Moses ShamMoses wrote:I like Killian Hayes, but he has to become consistent before I sweat losing him in free agency. Most likely his production can be replaced with the likes of Monte Morris or other similar quality vet guard. Those guys can be found in trades or free agency without too much trouble. In a vacuum, what do I think a "slightly better than today" Killian Hayes will be worth as a free agent? 3 years / 20M to be a backup point guard. If he improves and builds upon his offense throughout the season he can get more.

Wiseman? That's a tough one because he isn't even playing for us. I think he could get a minimum contract fairly easily. Maybe a 2 year / $10M deal with the second year team option or something if a team thinks they can "unlock him" like Weaver did.

Wiseman is essentially sitting in a situation similar to what Bagley was two years ago. Former #2 not currently playing, and Sacramento was able to get a decent bench rotation player in Lyles and some 2nd rounders from Detroit for him. That said, Weaver almost certainly overpaid for Bagley.

In the current situation, to play as third PG/SG and third C when all are healthy, taking into account that it is possible that neither will receive a better offer, I could see a minimum renewal for both of 2x6M$ or 3x10M$, being in both cases, the last year team option.
They are still very young and I remain confident that they can continue to improve.

Pandev wrote:Serious, Weaver needs to cut his losing moves/drafted players.

Plenty of more talented players in the NBA that can help this team win ballgames.

Weaver lives by GM wishful thinking, that's why he has about a dozen NBA draft bust reclamation projects thus far....

I have been saying the same thing for a year now and my deadline is this trade deadline. If Weaver doesn't make a trade for a real starting PF then we are going into the offseason hopefully not giving Killian Wiseman even Livers a contract. None of them deserve one. Killian is the only one worth the minimum salary but he can get that from any team why? because he's serviceable unlike Wiseman and Livers. Point being, my patience with Weaver is wearing thin. He's drafted great but has been abysmal with trades and free agency. At this point I would let him draft next summer and let him walk after that if he's not able to get talent with that much cap space and young cheap contract assets.

I'd try to re-sign Kill on the cheap. I think the Wiseman experiment is over.

Can't see either getting an extension. Hayes is at least showing some progress and will likely get some sort of offer in free agency. Not sure it will be from us, but someone will. Wiseman looks like he's on the way out of the league unless he makes some major progress. Maybe he gets a 2 way offer and someone tries to develop him that way.

Billl wrote:Can't see either getting an extension. Hayes is at least showing some progress and will likely get some sort of offer in free agency. Not sure it will be from us, but someone will. Wiseman looks like he's on the way out of the league unless he makes some major progress. Maybe he gets a 2 way offer and someone tries to develop him that way.

i could see hayes getting a close to minimum 1+1 deal, kind of like stanley johnson got after his rookie deal. wiseman is in a tough spot because he wouldn't be 2-way eligible so a team would have to sign him to a full roster spot. i think the best he could wish for is what happened to diallo where he gets an off season deal and cut so he's eligible for their g league team.

i don't think there are many (if any) GMs as willing to take on clearly bad "reclamation projects" as weaver.

i would so much rather re-sign monte morris than re-sign hayes tbh and it's not even close. we're eventually going to have to play functional basketball if we want to give the young guys a chance to actually improve.

Does Monte Morris play basketball? I'm going to reserve judgment on whether he should replace anyone in our lineup until he can actually get on the court.

I think we keep Killian on a short cheaper 3 yr deal, I’d trade Wiseman for anything we can get unless he’s already committed to a three year cheap deal himself after his contract expires. That I think is the best case scenario for both with us. Maybe they like the team, and chemistry, and feel this is where they can grow. We have no time for Wiseman, Killian has lucked out mostly with Morris being out he’s showed he’s serviceable, and still improving.

I bet they give Hayes a contract averaging $8-9mil per for 3 years. Hope last year is a team option.

I pass on both.

I hope Hayes figures it out. I really do like his overall game and absolutely see the value, but based on what he's currently shown I don't know how you can justify giving him anything. He's been historically bad shooting the ball at a time when shooting is more important than ever. On a roster that desperately needs shooting.

Hayes was essentially made expendable the moment we acquired Morris. He had this one last chance to try and show something but I don't think anybody can honestly say he's shown enough.

Cowology wrote:I pass on both.

I hope Hayes figures it out. I really do like his overall game and absolutely see the value, but based on what he's currently shown I don't know how you can justify giving him anything. He's been historically bad shooting the ball at a time when shooting is more important than ever. On a roster that desperately needs shooting.

Hayes was essentially made expendable the moment we acquired Morris. He had this one last chance to try and show something but I don't think anybody can honestly say he's shown enough.

That’s a good point. No matter what Hayes shows, a lot of his allure is wrapped up in his potential.

Even if he’s a plus defender and playmaker, I don’t see him becoming a good enough shooter with any type of consistency to warrant being a complementary piece on a team built around Cade, Ausar & Duren.