Good article on Cade Cunningham from The Ringer...

[bstein14]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2023/11/20/23968151/cade-cunningham-detroit-pistons-breakout-advanced-stats

This is a super long and thourough look at Cade's career thus far and worth the read from any Pistons fan die-hards here on Realgm.

Talks about his raw stats put him in elite company for a young player.... as not many average 18+ 5+ 5+ .... but his advanced stats paint the picture of a horribly inefficient player. Of the top 30 usage players in the league, he's essentially the worst at everything. Ahead of only Herro and Kuzma in FT rate, ahead of only Julius Randle in TS%, and ahead of only Kuzma in +/-. He's dead last in efficiency rating, box plus/minus, and estimated plus/minus.


Pretty much goes on to talk about how Cade is a volume scorer but not an efficient one (reminds of me young Pistons Stackhouse).

Talks about his struggles to finish left, and that when the games get close/tight teams will force him that way and the fact he's come up short on many late game possessions during crunch time.

They watched tape on every Cade FGA of his career, and mentioned how his lack of athleticism often leaves him taking "contorted, contested layups" ... Since he's come into the league 104 players have taking 500+ FGAs near the basket area and Cade ranks 98th of 104 players in FG% at the rim so he's really just awful at finishing in a crowd. Cade's been blocked 25 times this season, which is the most of any player in the NBA.

For his career, Cade is a 31% 3 point shooter and that ranks 139th in the league of the 140 players that have taken 500+ attempts since he has entered the league. Cade essentially makes 32% of wide open threes, 32% of catch and shoot threes, and about 29% of off the dribble threes and 29% of guarded threes.

Also mentions how his career FTAs is lower than pretty much every other high usage player in the league.

[Kalamazoo317]

That matches the eye test. Is he salvageable?

[GreekAlex]

What a tough position for a franchise.

He’s going to want a max deal based on his pedigree/ potential.

With few options to get high end talent, it’s a tough decision.

[DBC10]

Yeah, judging by the current state of things I wouldn't blame the FO for them to be slightly hesitant on forking over the rookie max like it's nothing. He will get it of course but it does put the franchise in a tough spot since it's not a surefire thing that we all thought even a year ago

Plenty of more games yet to come to change course, of course but right now, I think even the staunchest Cade fan has been shakened a bit

[Kalamazoo317]

Were there any other recent guard prospects that were inefficient like that and turned it around? Fox, etc.?

[mattao313]

Were there any other recent guard prospects that were inefficient like that and turned it around? Fox, etc.?

Kemba walker
Fox was never inefficient like cade
Sent from my SM-A528B using RealGM mobile app

[bstein14]

Fox was 2nd worst in the NBA of qualified players as a rookie. Garland was 4th worst as a rookie. Fox is probably the player most recently who starter out high usage, too many TOs (not as many as Cade tho) and not efficient enough with poor defense... that has now worked himself into a very good winning basketball player. It can certainly be done, but its hard to bet the farm on Cade this offseason unless we see some real improvement on efficiency. Most players that turn the ball over that much and score that poorly get the ball in their hands less and get fewer FGAs... assuming the team is trying to win.

[mattao313]

Fox was 2nd worst in the NBA of qualified players as a rookie. Garland was 4th worst as a rookie. Fox is probably the player most recently who starter out high usage, too many TOs (not as many as Cade tho) and not efficient enough with poor defense... that has now worked himself into a very good winning basketball player. It can certainly be done, but its hard to bet the farm on Cade this offseason unless we see some real improvement on efficiency. Most players that turn the ball over that much and score that poorly get the ball in their hands less and get fewer FGAs... assuming the team is trying to win.

Fox by his 2nd season he already had a .54ts in his 3rd he was at .558. Cade so far has been pretty stagnant at around .500ts. Kemba imo is the closest he had 4 inefficient seasons before getting his ish together.

Sent from my SM-A528B using RealGM mobile app

[reanimator]

I've been beating this drum for years now. That said, I do think he has a future as a essential core piece and will look way better in a reduced role once the Pistons can find a true #1 option.

[Kalamazoo317]

He's definitely a willing passer. One reason I wouldn't mind taking a stab at Lavine. I don't think he's the savior or anything, but I'd be interested to see what Cade looked like as the clear #2 option instead of the clear #1.

[NYPiston]

There's no doubt that Cade has his own self improvement to work on but I'd love to see him on a team that isn't a complete dumpster fire before passing real judgment. I believe the best stretch of his career was the second half of his rookie season when Bey and Grant were playing some of their best ball as a Piston.
Ever since then, it's been injury and this abomination of a supporting cast that he plays with.

I've said this many times, the Pistons have failed Cade much more than Cade has failed the Pistons.
Only the elite of the elite young players could survive in an environment like this. Cade is not a Luka and he's not a Lebron, he's not equipped to carry the entire weight of a franchise. I do think he could still be a #1 option but he needs a strong 1A to feed off of like Tatum/Brown for instance.

Give him a Brown level player, and not Fn Killian Hayes or a rookie in Ausar who can't create any offense at this point in his career, and I bet he'll look a lot better. Part of the reason for the inefficiency besides the fact that he's the sole focus of the defense is that he has to force up shots because nobody else can hit one. When Stewart is the 2nd best offensive option in your starting lineup, you know you're hooped so to speak. Even with Ivey yesterday, you could see flashes of a better game from Cade. Get this man some freaking help already.

[Absolutia]

I'm still using the last third of his rookie season as a means to judge him. He was a consistent meance to defenses and unless he's lost something since surgery, then it seems logical that he'll get better.

[Kalamazoo317]

There's no doubt that Cade has his own self improvement to work on but I'd love to see him on a team that isn't a complete dumpster fire before passing real judgment. I believe the best stretch of his career was the second half of his rookie season when Bey and Grant were playing some of their best ball as a Piston.

Exhibit A on why I was against trading Grant.

[Homelander87]

On a good team, Cade would be the 2nd option at best. Watching his game from what I've seen cements everything that was said above. He's only 6'6 so it's not like he's overly big for a guard anyway.

[mattao313]

On a good team, Cade would be the 2nd option at best. Watching his game from what I've seen cements everything that was said above. He's only 6'6 so it's not like he's overly big for a guard anyway.

He's a big pg (I don't think he's a pg) but he's unathletic so it negates his size advantage. He finishes around the rim like a 6 foot guard.

Sent from my SM-A528B using RealGM mobile app

[vege]

There is nothing new in that article. It's a good article nonetheless.

Cade is bad at selling contact, so he doesnt shoot a lot of FTs.

Defenses have been crazy on him because he's been playing with inept offensive players, so his percentages are bad.

His TS% have been bad, for those reasons (and a few other reasons the article explain). Doesn't mean it can't be better, once he have a decent team around him.

Yes he have flaws. Some of those flaws can't be fixed, some can. He is a player that still need to be developed, and he is in a toxic situation.

So no, it's not doom's day. He is the guy we will build around, and it can work, it's just not going to work with the wrong pieces around him.

This season will continue to be painful. Monte Morris is out for at least 8 more weeks. At least Bojan and Duren are about to be back. Duren will probably play on friday fwiw.

[vege]

There's no doubt that Cade has his own self improvement to work on but I'd love to see him on a team that isn't a complete dumpster fire before passing real judgment. I believe the best stretch of his career was the second half of his rookie season when Bey and Grant were playing some of their best ball as a Piston.
Ever since then, it's been injury and this abomination of a supporting cast that he plays with.

I've said this many times, the Pistons have failed Cade much more than Cade has failed the Pistons.
Only the elite of the elite young players could survive in an environment like this. Cade is not a Luka and he's not a Lebron, he's not equipped to carry the entire weight of a franchise. I do think he could still be a #1 option but he needs a strong 1A to feed off of like Tatum/Brown for instance.

Give him a Brown level player, and not Fn Killian Hayes or a rookie in Ausar who can't create any offense at this point in his career, and I bet he'll look a lot better. Part of the reason for the inefficiency besides the fact that he's the sole focus of the defense is that he has to force up shots because nobody else can hit one. When Stewart is the 2nd best offensive option in your starting lineup, you know you're hooped so to speak. Even with Ivey yesterday, you could see flashes of a better game from Cade. Get this man some freaking help already.

I read your message after I posted mine. We said almost the same thing, but you said it better.

[Kalamazoo317]

He had like 11 free throws against Denver, so there's hope on that front. Not sure any of them were and 1's, so didn't really help his efficiency, but it's something.

[Kalamazoo317]

Oh and he's 6'7. He grew an inch since coming into the league.

[vege]

This is a much better breakdown imo. It show the good and the bad

Watch on YouTube

I posted it before, but people tend to have bad memory, especially during a 12 games losing streak.