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It looks like Bagley is the odd man out with Duren back. Wiseman was fairly active tonight going 4-4 and also adding in 3 blocks. I think you can see he's picked up some of what Monty has been wanting. This leaves Marvin Bagley making $12.5 million this year and next and out of the rotation even with Stewart injured. 15th man Knox getting minutes (and rightfully so) over Bagley which has me wondering if Bagley's done for this season if Stewart comes back and we mostly remain healthy.

What's your thoughts on Bagley? I find it doubtful we pay Wiseman to be our backup center next year again if we've already got big money owed to Bagley but I guess that's TBD at this point.

Trade bait!

Neptune wrote:Trade bait!

Might be true. A healthy scratch has happened many a time before a trade.

Monty always said Bagley and Wiseman would battle for the backup C minutes. Bagley had his chance, now it's Wiseman time, and Monty will give him a several games look.

That's not because Wiseman have been good or anything, it's just his opportunity to play, that's all.

Wiseman have been awful. He have a few moments here and there, but overall he's been lost on both sides of the floor.

I would rather have Stewart playing backup C and some (limited) minutes at PF.

Neptune wrote:Trade bait!

More like trade ballast.

I'd rather keep developing Wiseman over playing Bagley. Bagley is mostly just a bad contract at this point, not all that useful.

bagley was out of the rotation in sacramento before we traded for him so nothing surprising.

so glad weaver signed him for 3 years just because he caught a few lobs when he was with us for like 15 games.

Will have to pay somebody to take him, though a team trading Detroit a PF for Ivey might take him as a salary balast neutral.

Any chance his back is barking again and it's more injury related and he's day-to-day?

whitehops wrote:bagley was out of the rotation in sacramento before we traded for him so nothing surprising.

so glad weaver signed him for 3 years just because he caught a few lobs when he was with us for like 15 games.

When Weaver says "defense first" he completely kills his case (and I give him a lot of the blame) not only trading for him, but re-signing him when we didn't need him. And then getting Wiseman. And then he throws the "To win a championship, you need 4 big men" just to cover for himself, buy time.. He's been absent but he'd say nothing of substance anyway.

Neptune wrote:Trade bait!

I cannot think of a single team that would want Bagley. He still sucks, and he's got a year remaining on his contract.

Nobody wants a center who can't play interior defense and can't shoot and gets bodied by bigger opponents.

whitehops wrote:bagley was out of the rotation in sacramento before we traded for him so nothing surprising.

so glad weaver signed him for 3 years just because he caught a few lobs when he was with us for like 15 games.

Weaver made a bet on him: that Bagley would pan out and then the Pistons would have him under contract until 2025, presumably the year after they'd spent all of their cap space, and then re-sign him via Bird rights.

Regrettably, this front office has been faaaaaaaaaar too focused upon, attached to, and confident in its projects. And all of that investment has produced exactly zero NBA rotation players.

Wiseman is just the latest project, one who never should have been on the team -- and probably wouldn't be on the team if the front office hadn't been obsessed with a hopeless project of converting their capable backup center into the worst starting power forward in the league.

I imagine Bagley’s been sidelined due to his back issues

I never had any major issues with Bagley. He's a bit overpaid, but I was OK with his terrible D given that he was an efficient bench scorer who was passable on the glass. I mean...we're a bottom 5 defense with or without Bags. You need guys in your 2nd unit who can put the ball through the hoop.

Bagley/Stew is a pretty solid bench tandem. They've played well together at times and theoretically compliment each other by being a 4/5 at one end a 5/4 at the other.

It just feels like everything has turned to **** this year. Everything. Thank god we're only 38 minutes away from a new year.

I think that at this point. The Pistons need to try to improve/develop Wiseman. Bagley is just a rotational big with limited upside. We gave up Bey for him. I just don’t see what giving minutes to Bagley does for this team.

It's surprising, as he has had a few decent games this season and Wiseman certainly isn't lighting the world on fire. I think almost certainly one of them will be gone by the deadline, but both of them also have no value right now.

Cowology wrote:I never had any major issues with Bagley. He's a bit overpaid, but I was OK with his terrible D given that he was an efficient bench scorer who was passable on the glass. I mean...we're a bottom 5 defense with or without Bags. You need guys in your 2nd unit who can put the ball through the hoop.

Bagley/Stew is a pretty solid bench tandem. They've played well together at times and theoretically compliment each other by being a 4/5 at one end a 5/4 at the other.

It just feels like everything has turned to **** this year. Everything. Thank god we're only 38 minutes away from a new year.

That's not true. We are the #14 defensive rating and a top 3 on opponent FG% when Duren is playing. We are #29 and at the very bottom of opponent FG% when Duren is not playing.

Bagley and Wiseman are that bad on defense. Duren is not prime Howard on defense, but he make us respectable, without Duren we are dead last.

So no, you are incorrect saying we're a bad defensive team with or without Bagley. Bagley and Wiseman are a huge reason on why we are a terrible defensive team. They are not the only reason tho.

Cade/Bojan and Ivey need to do much better than they've been doing on defense, but Cade and Bojan have a crazy offensive load and Bojan is not getting any younger.

Duren and Stewart are our only really good defenders, Ausar and Sasser are fine, the rest are bad, but Bagley and Wiseman are making everyone around them worse in that side of the court because they're dumb and don't understand the game.

vege wrote:

Cowology wrote:I never had any major issues with Bagley. He's a bit overpaid, but I was OK with his terrible D given that he was an efficient bench scorer who was passable on the glass. I mean...we're a bottom 5 defense with or without Bags. You need guys in your 2nd unit who can put the ball through the hoop.

Bagley/Stew is a pretty solid bench tandem. They've played well together at times and theoretically compliment each other by being a 4/5 at one end a 5/4 at the other.

It just feels like everything has turned to **** this year. Everything. Thank god we're only 38 minutes away from a new year.

That's not true. We are the #14 defensive rating and a top 3 on opponent FG% when Duren is playing. We are #29 and at the very bottom of opponent FG% when Duren is not playing.

Bagley and Wiseman are that bad on defense. Duren is not prime Howard on defense, but he make us respectable, without Duren we are dead last.

So no, you are incorrect saying we're a bad defensive team with or without Bagley. Bagley and Wiseman are a huge reason on why we are a terrible defensive team. They are not the only reason tho.

Cade/Bojan and Ivey need to do much better than they've been doing on defense, but Cade and Bojan have a crazy offensive load and Bojan is not getting any younger.

Duren and Stewart are our only really good defenders, Ausar and Sasser are fine, the rest are bad, but Bagley and Wiseman are making everyone around them worse in that side of the court because they're dumb and don't understand the game.

You can try and spin the stats any way you want, but we're a bad defensive team with or without Bagley.

Cowology wrote:

vege wrote:

Cowology wrote:I never had any major issues with Bagley. He's a bit overpaid, but I was OK with his terrible D given that he was an efficient bench scorer who was passable on the glass. I mean...we're a bottom 5 defense with or without Bags. You need guys in your 2nd unit who can put the ball through the hoop.

Bagley/Stew is a pretty solid bench tandem. They've played well together at times and theoretically compliment each other by being a 4/5 at one end a 5/4 at the other.

It just feels like everything has turned to **** this year. Everything. Thank god we're only 38 minutes away from a new year.

That's not true. We are the #14 defensive rating and a top 3 on opponent FG% when Duren is playing. We are #29 and at the very bottom of opponent FG% when Duren is not playing.

Bagley and Wiseman are that bad on defense. Duren is not prime Howard on defense, but he make us respectable, without Duren we are dead last.

So no, you are incorrect saying we're a bad defensive team with or without Bagley. Bagley and Wiseman are a huge reason on why we are a terrible defensive team. They are not the only reason tho.

Cade/Bojan and Ivey need to do much better than they've been doing on defense, but Cade and Bojan have a crazy offensive load and Bojan is not getting any younger.

Duren and Stewart are our only really good defenders, Ausar and Sasser are fine, the rest are bad, but Bagley and Wiseman are making everyone around them worse in that side of the court because they're dumb and don't understand the game.

You can try and spin the stats any way you want, but we're a bad defensive team with or without Bagley.

The stats are showing we're an average team with Duren over Bagley, so you are incorrect again.

It's been nice to see Wiseman show some flashes as a rim protector in the last couple of games. No reason to expect it'll be something consistent, but something to watch, I guess.