RealGM

This chart shows the difference between a player's regular FG% within 6 feet of the basket versus field goal % allowed... which I feel like is a pretty good indication and makes up for the fact that some players get harder asignments than others... its about what you're holding players to compared to their average against everyone else.

Things that stick out here. Opponents are scoring about 12% less than their average when guarded by Stewart within 6 feet of the basket. Players are scoring about 11% lower within 6 feet when contested by Ivey. Players are about 6% less when defended by Ausar.


On the flip side, players score about 7% better inside six feet when contested by Killian Hayes. Cade contests the most FGAs within 6 feet, and opponents score at about a 5% higher than their average FG% against Cade.

it's one of the downsides of "hiding" cade off-ball defensively, he's often the low man rotation so he's tasked with protecting the rim when the bigs are out of the paint. that's why he has so many field goals defensed (more than guys like allen, wemby and KP).

i have noticed he doesn't put up a lot of resistance, usually just putting a hand up and bigger guys don't really have a problem hooking over it. i always suspected it was to avoid fouls because we've seen him play physical post defense when he wants to.

surprised i can't find duren, nba.com has him with well over 90 attempts. not sure where the graph's data is pulled from but nba.com would have him slightly behind ivey and stewart for %.

What does Killian Hayes do on a basketball floor?

Since when is Cade started playing center or PF and became a rim protector? That is what the Stewarts and Durens of the league does.

BadMofoPimp wrote:Since when is Cade started playing center or PF and became a rim protector? That is what the Stewarts and Durens of the league does.

As you can see in the chart, it happens a lot here. He defends more shots at the rim than Stewart.

BDM22 wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:Since when is Cade started playing center or PF and became a rim protector? That is what the Stewarts and Durens of the league does.

As you can see in the chart, it happens a lot here. He defends more shots at the rim than Stewart.

I reckon Cade tries to do it all which I respect but that doesn't mean he should be judged in any facet as a Rim protector from the PG position. That is just stupid talk.

BadMofoPimp wrote:

BDM22 wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:Since when is Cade started playing center or PF and became a rim protector? That is what the Stewarts and Durens of the league does.

As you can see in the chart, it happens a lot here. He defends more shots at the rim than Stewart.

I reckon Cade tries to do it all which I respect but that doesn't mean he should be judged in any facet as a Rim protector from the PG position. That is just stupid talk.

He's been very bad defensively. That's hard to argue. Some of this is a terrible defensive scheme where guards end up switching onto forwards constantly, but also he does seem to just play "no fouls" defense at the rim, and pretty routinely lets guys waltz down there for easy shots where he just stands straight and casually puts an arm up.

And in the modern NBA where bigs gets stretched out to the 3-point line, you need your guards to be able to defend shots near the rim from the guys they're guarding.

A lot comes down to conditioning IMO. He looks exhausted just playing one side of the ball most nights.

I was surprised at first to see this stat. After sometime, I remember him trying to defend shots. It’s not a pretty thing. I think that a lot of this has to do with BB at the four.

BDM22 wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:

BDM22 wrote:As you can see in the chart, it happens a lot here. He defends more shots at the rim than Stewart.

I reckon Cade tries to do it all which I respect but that doesn't mean he should be judged in any facet as a Rim protector from the PG position. That is just stupid talk.

He's been very bad defensively. That's hard to argue. Some of this is a terrible defensive scheme where guards end up switching onto forwards constantly, but also he does seem to just play "no fouls" defense at the rim, and pretty routinely lets guys waltz down there for easy shots where he just stands straight and casually puts an arm up.

And in the modern NBA where bigs gets stretched out to the 3-point line, you need your guards to be able to defend shots near the rim from the guys they're guarding.

A lot comes down to conditioning IMO. He looks exhausted just playing one side of the ball most nights.

Most if not rbrty all-star guards would be terrible with your premise.

BadMofoPimp wrote:

BDM22 wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:
I reckon Cade tries to do it all which I respect but that doesn't mean he should be judged in any facet as a Rim protector from the PG position. That is just stupid talk.

He's been very bad defensively. That's hard to argue. Some of this is a terrible defensive scheme where guards end up switching onto forwards constantly, but also he does seem to just play "no fouls" defense at the rim, and pretty routinely lets guys waltz down there for easy shots where he just stands straight and casually puts an arm up.

And in the modern NBA where bigs gets stretched out to the 3-point line, you need your guards to be able to defend shots near the rim from the guys they're guarding.

A lot comes down to conditioning IMO. He looks exhausted just playing one side of the ball most nights.

Most if not rbrty all-star guards would be terrible with your premise.

What's the "premise" exactly? We see the stats right there. He is the defender on a lot shots at the rim and he doesn't put up resistance. The speculation would be if he's allowing his own man to get to the rim and score over him more than the other guys on the chart, or if he's just bad as the help guy and shouldn't be put in that position.

Ivey and Ausar don't have the same problem and they are smaller or the same size as Cade.

BDM22 wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:

BDM22 wrote:He's been very bad defensively. That's hard to argue. Some of this is a terrible defensive scheme where guards end up switching onto forwards constantly, but also he does seem to just play "no fouls" defense at the rim, and pretty routinely lets guys waltz down there for easy shots where he just stands straight and casually puts an arm up.

And in the modern NBA where bigs gets stretched out to the 3-point line, you need your guards to be able to defend shots near the rim from the guys they're guarding.

A lot comes down to conditioning IMO. He looks exhausted just playing one side of the ball most nights.

Most if not rbrty all-star guards would be terrible with your premise.

What's the "premise" exactly? We see the stats right there. He is the defender on a lot shots at the rim and he doesn't put up resistance. The speculation would be if he's allowing his own man to get to the rim and score over him more than the other guys on the chart, or if he's just bad as the help guy and shouldn't be put in that position.

Ivey and Ausar don't have the same problem and they are smaller or the same size as Cade.

So, just about every All-Star guard in history suck for you. I get it.

You should try a team of all Centers and Power Forwards.

BadMofoPimp wrote:

BDM22 wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:
Most if not rbrty all-star guards would be terrible with your premise.

What's the "premise" exactly? We see the stats right there. He is the defender on a lot shots at the rim and he doesn't put up resistance. The speculation would be if he's allowing his own man to get to the rim and score over him more than the other guys on the chart, or if he's just bad as the help guy and shouldn't be put in that position.

Ivey and Ausar don't have the same problem and they are smaller or the same size as Cade.

So, just about every All-Star guard in history suck for you. I get it.

Where did I say Cade sucks?! Why is it that irrational fans can't even hear an ounce of criticism about Cade's game without doing this nonsense?!

It's ok to say that Cade has been bad defensively. If you think it's not OK to live in objective reality, that's a YOU problem.

BDM22 wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:

BDM22 wrote:What's the "premise" exactly? We see the stats right there. He is the defender on a lot shots at the rim and he doesn't put up resistance. The speculation would be if he's allowing his own man to get to the rim and score over him more than the other guys on the chart, or if he's just bad as the help guy and shouldn't be put in that position.

Ivey and Ausar don't have the same problem and they are smaller or the same size as Cade.

So, just about every All-Star guard in history suck for you. I get it.

Where did I say Cade sucks?! Why is it that irrational fans can't even hear an ounce of criticism about Cade's game without doing this nonsense?!

It's ok to say that Cade has been bad defensively. If you think it's not OK to live in objective reality, that's a YOU problem.

I get that Cade isn't great on Defense, but no player is great at everything. I see not a single reason in hell to create a thread to attack Cade for not being a Rim Protector.

Cade is big for a guard, so you'd hope he could put up a bit more resistance in this category, especially if he keeps being put in this position. Definitely an area in his game that needs improvement if he's going to keep growing into a franchise player for us.

I am perfectly fine with Cade being below average on defense, seeing as how much of a load he has to carry on offense right now.

For some added context;

Cade is 3rd in the league in drives per game;

1.)SGA-22.8
2.)Ja Morant-21.2
3.)Cade-18.4
4.)Luka-18.4

He carries a 30.2% usage rate(13th)

18th in total points scored(819. Just behind ANT, LeBron, e.t.c.)

4th in FGA (678. Behind Luka, Brunson, SGA)

20th scoring (23.4)

14th in assist %

11th in APG (7.4)

8th in time of possession (7.1)

10th in total touches (84.3)

I am trying to find a total points generated for each team, but its difficult, to nail down. I can assure you he would be near the top.

When Cade has proper players around him, his efficiency, defense, everything will skyrocket.

whitehops wrote:it's one of the downsides of "hiding" cade off-ball defensively, he's often the low man rotation so he's tasked with protecting the rim when the bigs are out of the paint. that's why he has so many field goals defensed (more than guys like allen, wemby and KP).

i have noticed he doesn't put up a lot of resistance, usually just putting a hand up and bigger guys don't really have a problem hooking over it. i always suspected it was to avoid fouls because we've seen him play physical post defense when he wants to.

surprised i can't find duren, nba.com has him with well over 90 attempts. not sure where the graph's data is pulled from but nba.com would have him slightly behind ivey and stewart for %.

Duren is in the 86 percentile as a rim defender.

vege wrote:

whitehops wrote:it's one of the downsides of "hiding" cade off-ball defensively, he's often the low man rotation so he's tasked with protecting the rim when the bigs are out of the paint. that's why he has so many field goals defensed (more than guys like allen, wemby and KP).

i have noticed he doesn't put up a lot of resistance, usually just putting a hand up and bigger guys don't really have a problem hooking over it. i always suspected it was to avoid fouls because we've seen him play physical post defense when he wants to.

surprised i can't find duren, nba.com has him with well over 90 attempts. not sure where the graph's data is pulled from but nba.com would have him slightly behind ivey and stewart for %.

Duren is in the 86 percentile as a rim defender.

According to your favorite website, your favorite player is the #1 rim defending guard in the entire NBA

BDM22 wrote:

vege wrote:

whitehops wrote:it's one of the downsides of "hiding" cade off-ball defensively, he's often the low man rotation so he's tasked with protecting the rim when the bigs are out of the paint. that's why he has so many field goals defensed (more than guys like allen, wemby and KP).

i have noticed he doesn't put up a lot of resistance, usually just putting a hand up and bigger guys don't really have a problem hooking over it. i always suspected it was to avoid fouls because we've seen him play physical post defense when he wants to.

surprised i can't find duren, nba.com has him with well over 90 attempts. not sure where the graph's data is pulled from but nba.com would have him slightly behind ivey and stewart for %.

Duren is in the 86 percentile as a rim defender.

According to your favorite website, your favorite player is the #1 rim defending guard in the entire NBA

Ivey is a good rim protector, still because of how dumb he is, he still manages to be a terrible defender. He's been improving tho, but the bar is still super low for him. Hopefully next season he's not going to be killian Hayes offense bad on defense.

Part of the reason is, undoubtedly... Cade drops down after switches and is left with a big so he's trying to contest a player bigger than him... But that's only part of the equation he also does poorly against the guy he is guarding as well... part of the reason he defends more shots than anyone within 6 feet of the basket is because he isn't putting up resistance ahead of that to keep his opponent out of the basket area.

Ivey appears to be an elite defender within 6 feet of the basket... he can use his athleticism to elevate up and I would say he gets many of his blocks down at the basket area he isn't blocking a ton of jump shots.

If nothing else, this chart is pretty interesting to look at and see how players do against our guys in comparison to how they normally perform on a nightly basis.

bstein14 wrote:Part of the reason is, undoubtedly... Cade drops down after switches and is left with a big so he's trying to contest a player bigger than him... But that's only part of the equation he also does poorly against the guy he is guarding as well... part of the reason he defends more shots than anyone within 6 feet of the basket is because he isn't putting up resistance ahead of that to keep his opponent out of the basket area.

Ivey appears to be an elite defender within 6 feet of the basket... he can use his athleticism to elevate up and I would say he gets many of his blocks down at the basket area he isn't blocking a ton of jump shots.

If nothing else, this chart is pretty interesting to look at and see how players do against our guys in comparison to how they normally perform on a nightly basis.

Opponents are always trying to get Cade out of the game because they can't handle him on offense, so they attack him over and over again to get him in foul trouble.

Regardless of the reason, Cade has proven he can do much better than that, so he got to do better, he can be a good defender when he is focused on the defensive end, he's been laughable on defense for a while.