Time to face reality about Cade

[Notanoob]

As much as it sucks, we're too bad to trade away stuff to try to get better. The hope is that we land Flagg next year at this point.

Cade is okay, but if he was a huge difference-maker the team wouldn't be this bad. He'll look better with better teammates, with more experience, but he's looking like he's just a guy and not a Franchise Player. Until we get one of those we just hope to get lucky in the draft I guess.

The real problem is the people running the team can't evaluate players or value correctly. Doesn't matter if we have draft picks if we pick the wrong guys, doesn't matter if we're willing to spend on free agents if we get guys who suck, doesn't matter if we trade for guys if they can't play and don't fit. Another terrible season is probably necessary just force Gores to clean house.

[tradez401]

Watch on YouTube

the only bright spot for the team this year didnt mentally check out and kept playin till the end.

[tacosman]

Here is the problem with how some fans of the pistons(which is true for many fairly young and consistently bad teams), or rather the two assumptions that tends to burn people for teams like this:

1) There is an assumption of progress, both on an individual and team level

There is this idea that a young team who picks fairly high for several consecutive years is going to have a linear(and positive) win direction year after year and over a long time. And that's just not how it works. Occasionally it has worked like that, but that's not the norm.
I see things like people projecting a win progression per season of 20-25-30-35-40-45-50-55-etc.......Like no, that's usually not how it works.
For every OKC from 12-15 years ago(or what they are doing now), there are 10 other examples where it doesn't happen like that.
It's great to want the team to have this long and consistently upward climb in a linear manner; but wanting and expecting are two different things.

2) *Someone* has to be the one scoring and putting up stats. Let's imagine a hypothetical team with a bunch of young players who has a season +/- per 48 or -20. I mean that's a historically bad team. Let's their they average 100 a game(ie terrible) and give up 120 a game(ie terrible).
Well *someone* or likely a couple of the young guys on the roster are going to put up 22/6 or whatever on middling efficiency. I mean there is 100 points to be divided up.

So fans see a collection of young players who were high draft picks and say "hey he's only 21(or 22 or 23 or whatever) and is putting up 21/7/5 on 45/35/78. That's a real keeper". And he may be or he(more likely) isn't, but this isn't seeing the forest through the trees.

I mean let's be honest. These last few years, or this 'rebuild' so far for the pistons has been terrible. Literally as bad as one could expect. The team was terrible when they started it, and they are still terrible. They haven't any progress at all as a team.

And yet many of the posters here think there is one really good young player who has all-nba potential and then a number of other "quality building blocks for the future"(I pulled that as a quote on here recently; cant remember from who)

Instead, the right way to look at it is this: Start with the realization that this team sucks. I mean really really sucks. A few years into the rebuild the detroit pistons are the WORST.TEAM.IN.NBA.

So then when one is reminded of this fact, let's ask ourselves- Who gets the 'credit' for the pistons being the worst team in the nba?

Well, the obvious next step is to see whose playing all these minutes to make them the absolute worst team in the nba.

And they are(in order and taking away players who played well less than half the games due to trades/injury):

Cunningham
Ivey
Duren
Stewart

So there it is....mostly it's the young players and high(er) draft picks that are supposedly the 'building blocks' that have led them to this worst in the nba status.

That's a problem.

I mean cunningham is supposedly the freaking centerpiece of this. And he's on the court more than anyone and even more importantly has the ball in his hands and has a usage rate far higher than anyone and........14 wins.

Ivey is next and he's a top 5 pick with two seasons under his belt.

You get where I'm going with this.

The players that many fans are counting on as the 'up and coming pieces' are responsible far more than anyone else for what has been pretty much historically bad basketball lately.

If it was going to work with these guys, there *would* be some progression. I'm not asking them to go 44-38 or whatever. But this??

And don't blame the coach or some other nonsense....this team has won 14 games because the guys that have been out there on the court have really really sucked. Period.

I mean as far as Cade's possible extension goes....I mean why not? What other choice do you have? but just because they give him an extension in no way means this is going in the right direction. With cade or anyone on this team.

[tacosman]

and yes, before anyone flames me about nets- we suck and I know it and our future isn't good either lol.....

[Billl]

Sleep on cade if you want. The rest of the league seems to know he can play.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

Here is the problem with how some fans of the pistons(which is true for many fairly young and consistently bad teams), or rather the two assumptions that tends to burn people for teams like this:

1) There is an assumption of progress, both on an individual and team level

There is this idea that a young team who picks fairly high for several consecutive years is going to have a linear(and positive) win direction year after year and over a long time. And that's just not how it works. Occasionally it has worked like that, but that's not the norm.
I see things like people projecting a win progression per season of 20-25-30-35-40-45-50-55-etc.......Like no, that's usually not how it works.
For every OKC from 12-15 years ago(or what they are doing now), there are 10 other examples where it doesn't happen like that.
It's great to want the team to have this long and consistently upward climb in a linear manner; but wanting and expecting are two different things.

2) *Someone* has to be the one scoring and putting up stats. Let's imagine a hypothetical team with a bunch of young players who has a season +/- per 48 or -20. I mean that's a historically bad team. Let's their they average 100 a game(ie terrible) and give up 120 a game(ie terrible).
Well *someone* or likely a couple of the young guys on the roster are going to put up 22/6 or whatever on middling efficiency. I mean there is 100 points to be divided up.

So fans see a collection of young players who were high draft picks and say "hey he's only 21(or 22 or 23 or whatever) and is putting up 21/7/5 on 45/35/78. That's a real keeper". And he may be or he(more likely) isn't, but this isn't seeing the forest through the trees.

I mean let's be honest. These last few years, or this 'rebuild' so far for the pistons has been terrible. Literally as bad as one could expect. The team was terrible when they started it, and they are still terrible. They haven't any progress at all as a team.

And yet many of the posters here think there is one really good young player who has all-nba potential and then a number of other "quality building blocks for the future"(I pulled that as a quote on here recently; cant remember from who)

Instead, the right way to look at it is this: Start with the realization that this team sucks. I mean really really sucks. A few years into the rebuild the detroit pistons are the WORST.TEAM.IN.NBA.

So then when one is reminded of this fact, let's ask ourselves- Who gets the 'credit' for the pistons being the worst team in the nba?

Well, the obvious next step is to see whose playing all these minutes to make them the absolute worst team in the nba.

And they are(in order and taking away players who played well less than half the games due to trades/injury):

Cunningham
Ivey
Duren
Stewart

So there it is....mostly it's the young players and high(er) draft picks that are supposedly the 'building blocks' that have led them to this worst in the nba status.

That's a problem.

I mean cunningham is supposedly the freaking centerpiece of this. And he's on the court more than anyone and even more importantly has the ball in his hands and has a usage rate far higher than anyone and........14 wins.

Ivey is next and he's a top 5 pick with two seasons under his belt.

You get where I'm going with this.

The players that many fans are counting on as the 'up and coming pieces' are responsible far more than anyone else for what has been pretty much historically bad basketball lately.

If it was going to work with these guys, there *would* be some progression. I'm not asking them to go 44-38 or whatever. But this??

And don't blame the coach or some other nonsense....this team has won 14 games because the guys that have been out there on the court have really really sucked. Period.

I mean as far as Cade's possible extension goes....I mean why not? What other choice do you have? but just because they give him an extension in no way means this is going in the right direction. With cade or anyone on this team.

I think it’s very smart to not extend Cade this summer. I also think the new HOBO should see what Cade would get in a trade - I think it’s less than what many here would guess.

Cade’s a good player. Is he an All-Star? Should we give him a max deal because he’s our best player? How many games did we win last year? Can he stay healthy?

I’m curious to see what Cade would get us in a trade. I’m even curious to see what teams would even want him. I can’t get the Jalen Rose comparisons out of my head, and he peaked out as the second or third best player on a good Pacers team. Is that worth the max?