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Pistons 0-15 without Duren this season, 4-6 without Cade...

I know a lot has to do with how bad we were playing Bagley and Wiseman so much earlier this season when Duren was out.... but it did often feel like without Duren we didn't have a chance.

Without Cade, it has often felt like we're harder to defend and less predictable with more ball movement and Ivey and/or Duren having bigger games.

Interesting numbers. Of course there are a lot of other factors that go into them as you alluded to. I think Cade is more valuable in general, but I think Duren shines at a position we were weak at.

Going forward next year, it’s probably Duren/Stewart/Wiseman (much improved) as our depth chart at center. It should be better even if Duren goes out.

theBigLip wrote:Interesting numbers. Of course there are a lot of other factors that go into them as you alluded to. I think Cade is more valuable in general, but I think Duren shines at a position we were weak at.

Going forward next year, it’s probably Duren/Stewart/Wiseman (much improved) as our depth chart at center. It should be better even if Duren goes out.

If Stewart and Wiseman are both on the team next year, I may be out for the season.

I just cannot watch losing basketball anymore from the Pistons.

Stewart is a backup center. There is no universe in where the Pistons do not have the assets to obtain a starting 4. Either in the draft, or via trade. Stewart is great coming off the bench.

This eliminates the need for Wiseman.

Wiseman to the start the year=loser season yet again.

zeebneeb wrote:

theBigLip wrote:Interesting numbers. Of course there are a lot of other factors that go into them as you alluded to. I think Cade is more valuable in general, but I think Duren shines at a position we were weak at.

Going forward next year, it’s probably Duren/Stewart/Wiseman (much improved) as our depth chart at center. It should be better even if Duren goes out.

If Stewart and Wiseman are both on the team next year, I may be out for the season.

I just cannot watch losing basketball anymore from the Pistons.

Stewart is a backup center. There is no universe in where the Pistons do not have the assets to obtain a starting 4. Either in the draft, or via trade. Stewart is great coming off the bench.

This eliminates the need for Wiseman.

Wiseman to the start the year=loser season yet again.

So because Stewart is not a starting 4 he's "losing basketball"? And let's face it, you're watching the same amount next year whether they're on the team or not. I get a kick anytime people waste keystrokes and say things like that.

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DetroitSho wrote:

zeebneeb wrote:

theBigLip wrote:Interesting numbers. Of course there are a lot of other factors that go into them as you alluded to. I think Cade is more valuable in general, but I think Duren shines at a position we were weak at.

Going forward next year, it’s probably Duren/Stewart/Wiseman (much improved) as our depth chart at center. It should be better even if Duren goes out.

If Stewart and Wiseman are both on the team next year, I may be out for the season.

I just cannot watch losing basketball anymore from the Pistons.

Stewart is a backup center. There is no universe in where the Pistons do not have the assets to obtain a starting 4. Either in the draft, or via trade. Stewart is great coming off the bench.

This eliminates the need for Wiseman.

Wiseman to the start the year=loser season yet again.

So because Stewart is not a starting 4 he's "losing basketball"? And let's face it, you're watching the same amount next year whether they're on the team or not. I get a kick anytime people waste keystrokes and say things like that.

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No, I will not. I went 5 years without watching any Pistons basketball previously when the team was a trainwreck.

Hope was the selling point this time with all the draft picks. That has been utterly destroyed.

Wiseman still on the team next year is an obvious signal of ineptitude.

And yes, as much as I like Stewart the competitor, he is not a starting level power forward in the NBA. I would like to have a different player, several of which are attainable for the right price. The terrible nature of this team means I'm willing to part with starters, and picks to do so, to finally bring something resembling winning basketball ball to Detroit.

Hopefully Weaver gets canned before he can make any further decisions, but if Gores keeps him on, its going to be brutal.

Some context;

Of the top 20 lowest winning percentage GM's of all-time, Troy Weaver is currently 9th at .238%

Further context;

There is only one GM with more games on their watch in the top 30, and that is Stu Jackson. 78/300 .206

Weaver is at 72/231 .238

4 of the GM's ahead of Troy for worst GM winning percentage haven't even hit 70 losses, with one at 13 before he was canned. If you correct for GM's with at least 100 losses, he is at the fifth lowest winning percentage in NBA history, with the second most games under his watch.

This is, without question, the worst period of Detroit Pistons basketball in their storied history. They are the second oldest NBA team, so it's a feat to be this bad.

Draft a PF and have Stewart backup the 4 and 5. Problem solved.

zeebneeb wrote:

theBigLip wrote:Interesting numbers. Of course there are a lot of other factors that go into them as you alluded to. I think Cade is more valuable in general, but I think Duren shines at a position we were weak at.

Going forward next year, it’s probably Duren/Stewart/Wiseman (much improved) as our depth chart at center. It should be better even if Duren goes out.

If Stewart and Wiseman are both on the team next year, I may be out for the season.

I just cannot watch losing basketball anymore from the Pistons.

Stewart is a backup center. There is no universe in where the Pistons do not have the assets to obtain a starting 4. Either in the draft, or via trade. Stewart is great coming off the bench.

This eliminates the need for Wiseman.

Wiseman to the start the year=loser season yet again.

I believe u misunderstood BigLip. I believe he meant the depth chart at center would be Duren-starter. Stew-backup. Wiseman-3rd stringer

This is a crazy stat bc out of the core 4. He's last in order. Cade, Ausar, Ivey and Duren. Outside of being an elite Rebounder not sure what Duren does well.

Canadafan wrote:

zeebneeb wrote:

theBigLip wrote:Interesting numbers. Of course there are a lot of other factors that go into them as you alluded to. I think Cade is more valuable in general, but I think Duren shines at a position we were weak at.

Going forward next year, it’s probably Duren/Stewart/Wiseman (much improved) as our depth chart at center. It should be better even if Duren goes out.

If Stewart and Wiseman are both on the team next year, I may be out for the season.

I just cannot watch losing basketball anymore from the Pistons.

Stewart is a backup center. There is no universe in where the Pistons do not have the assets to obtain a starting 4. Either in the draft, or via trade. Stewart is great coming off the bench.

This eliminates the need for Wiseman.

Wiseman to the start the year=loser season yet again.

I believe u misunderstood BigLip. I believe he meant the depth chart at center would be Duren-starter. Stew-backup. Wiseman-3rd stringer

Thx, that’s exactly what I meant. Stewart as a backup off the bench is great. And Wiseman as a 3rd big I think is great as well as long as he keeps improving like he has this year. And if we can extend him for cheap.

bjones521 wrote:This is a crazy stat bc out of the core 4. He's last in order. Cade, Ausar, Ivey and Duren. Outside of being an elite Rebounder not sure what Duren does well.

It's more about who takes the role when they're out. Instead of putting Stew at the 5 when Duren is out and using Fontecchio/Ausar/Bojan (when he was here) at the 4, Monty would lean on Wiseman and Bagley. When Cade is out, it takes Ivey out of this stand-in-the-corner all game role and unlocks his game. so there's less of a drop-off.

Stew is high because he's the only guy on the roster that can shoot a bit and play D.

bjones521 wrote:This is a crazy stat bc out of the core 4. He's last in order. Cade, Ausar, Ivey and Duren. Outside of being an elite Rebounder not sure what Duren does well.

Not sure he's last at all. When Tom Gores came to visit during the losing streak he spoke with Cade and Duren. It's very possible he's looked at as the second best prospect on our team behind Cade. James Edwards III also spoke on how its believed that Duren would bring back more(a better player) in a trade than Ivey.