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It’s hard to think about hoops when the Lions and Tigers are rocking, but season is starting so time to dive in.

My first question is what are my hopes for the season? I’m so sick of losing, I’m ready to become a mid tier team and get into the playoffs. But at the expense of a generational talent? That’s not a smart trade off. Of course, our lottery luck is pathetic so we can’t rely on tanking this year. We’d also have a lot of company.

My preferred season is to be at least average up until the trade deadline, trade out the vets, tank a bit down the stretch, then hope we get one more legit young player. Then forevermore its “Just win!”

What’s your preferred season outcome?

If the choice is actually getting the #1 pick or the 10 seed, then I'm taking Flagg every time. If the choice is sharing the best odds for #1 or the 10 seed, I'm still taking the lotto odds.

I think the most likely outcome is a mediocre improvement, finishing with the 5-7th worse record, and no clarity on the longer-term viability of our young prospects.

My preference is to watch and root for players that are competing every second on the floor, so give me the play in.

Im down with playing primarily the vets and if the younger guys cant outplay them then they sit until they are capable of and clearly the better basketball player.

Tanking has not worked in Detroit and I hope its in the rear view. Give me Lindsey Hunter, Rodman and Wallace type competitors, working every second of the game clock to win every contest.

Ultimately I believe thats the only route out of the hell this team slid into, phuk a tank!

I'm not confident that our existing talent base + development + outside acquisitions will be able to get us anywhere near where we would need to be to contend for a championship.

Part of that is due to Detroit not being a destination place etc but it speaks more to my opinions of the future potential of our young players outside of Cade.

For that reason I think it would be better for us to get another strong cornerstone piece in the upcoming draft. Ideally we win 10 more games than last year and be in the thick of it in terms of lottery odds and the gods finally give us a scrap of mercy unlike prior years.

I also hope that folks like Ivey and Ausar develop outside shooting and that Duren gets back to playing defense. Whether or not Ausar plays due to the clotting might actually factor in as well... (such a bummer so far).

Depends on the situation. Right now, absolutely the play-in as there is no guarantee that you'll get the #1 pick needed to land Flagg.

Best case scenario, team just narrowly misses the play-in, and still gets the #1 pick.

Done with the losing, period.

I’d like to
Make the play in and win the lottery like Atlanta did, that’s the best case scenario

Well, making the play in means something went very right for player development. But in vacuum, cooper flagg all day. Very fluid high floor prospect with a real chance to develop into a top 10 player eventually.

I think if the choice is Flagg or play-in then it's simple, easily taking Flagg. But if it's a 14% chance at Flagg vs play-in, the latter meaning our young guys took a big step forward and we are no longer a joke around the league, then I take the play-in. The toll of continual losing can be high, both on the young players and the fans.

Play in.

If we were somehow able to win enough games to qualify for that it will mean that our young players have made enough progress to get us there, and the culture is changing. And that's worth way more than a 1 in 7 chance at Flagg.

If you're somehow guaranteeing us Flagg that's another story, but as we've very clearly seen in recent years the world doesn't work that way.

The team needs to start improving the culture, and that happens with winning. This shouldn't be a controversial take at this point. The system no longer rewards being the worst.

Snakebites wrote:Play in.

If we were somehow able to win enough games to qualify for that it will mean that our young players have made enough progress to get us there, and the culture is changing. And that's worth way more than a 1 in 7 chance at Flagg.

If you're somehow guaranteeing us Flagg that's another story, but as we've very clearly seen in recent years the world doesn't work that way.

The team needs to start improving the culture, and that happens with winning. This shouldn't be a controversial take at this point. The system no longer rewards being the worst.

This exactly.
Tanking hasn't worked so far. For the play in to be remotely possible it means cade and at least a few of the others have improved dramatically and the coach is working out. I'd take that

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There is 0% chance of making the playin. So, yeah, hoping the lottery balls bounce our way this year. Sure, it would be nice to be a 500 team with lots of room for improvement still from the young guys, but that's not where we are at. We were literally the worst team in the league last year. If everything goes well, maybe we get out of the bottom 5 and start working our way up.

Billl wrote:There is 0% chance of making the playin. So, yeah, hoping the lottery balls bounce our way this year. Sure, it would be nice to be a 500 team with lots of room for improvement still from the young guys, but that's not where we are at. We were literally the worst team in the league last year. If everything goes well, maybe we get out of the bottom 5 and start working our way up.

I think the more realistic thing to happen is a marginal improvement that sees us as the 5th or 6th worst team in the league. That still gives us a decent chance at Flagg, relatively speaking. We'll never have a GOOD chance at him.

I took the question to be more of a pie in the sky "what would I most want". And I'd rather strive for the play-in than strive to once again be the worst.

It's easier to look at this from a more detached perspective when you're early in the rebuild. In recent years I've wanted as many lottery balls as possible. Last year was the year that finally broke me in that regard. It was just...so unpleasant.

Snakebites wrote:

Billl wrote:There is 0% chance of making the playin. So, yeah, hoping the lottery balls bounce our way this year. Sure, it would be nice to be a 500 team with lots of room for improvement still from the young guys, but that's not where we are at. We were literally the worst team in the league last year. If everything goes well, maybe we get out of the bottom 5 and start working our way up.

I think the more realistic thing to happen is a marginal improvement that sees us as the 5th or 6th worst team in the league. That still gives us a decent chance at Flagg, relatively speaking. We'll never have a GOOD chance at him.

I took the question to be more of a pie in the sky "what would I most want". And I'd rather strive for the play-in than strive to once again be the worst.

It's easier to look at this from a more detached perspective when you're early in the rebuild. In recent years I've wanted as many lottery balls as possible. Last year was the year that finally broke me in that regard. It was just...so unpleasant.

Dropping to #5 3 goddamn years in a row while having far and away the worst team was killer. The Pistons always went on those late season "pride" winning streaks in the 2010s to torpedo their draft position back when the lottery odds were more favorable, only to lose out on franchise changing talent again and again in the 2020s. I believe that this team is cursed and will not exceed 30 wins ever again so long as Tom Gores remains the owner.

Snakebites wrote:I think the more realistic thing to happen is a marginal improvement that sees us as the 5th or 6th worst team in the league. That still gives us a decent chance at Flagg, relatively speaking. We'll never have a GOOD chance at him.

If we're the 6th worst team in the league, that means we're probably also the 5th worst team in the East, i.e. the 11th best team, which means we'd be right on the brink of the play-in as well.

JNewton wrote:

Snakebites wrote:

Billl wrote:There is 0% chance of making the playin. So, yeah, hoping the lottery balls bounce our way this year. Sure, it would be nice to be a 500 team with lots of room for improvement still from the young guys, but that's not where we are at. We were literally the worst team in the league last year. If everything goes well, maybe we get out of the bottom 5 and start working our way up.

I think the more realistic thing to happen is a marginal improvement that sees us as the 5th or 6th worst team in the league. That still gives us a decent chance at Flagg, relatively speaking. We'll never have a GOOD chance at him.

I took the question to be more of a pie in the sky "what would I most want". And I'd rather strive for the play-in than strive to once again be the worst.

It's easier to look at this from a more detached perspective when you're early in the rebuild. In recent years I've wanted as many lottery balls as possible. Last year was the year that finally broke me in that regard. It was just...so unpleasant.

Dropping to #5 3 goddamn years in a row while having far and away the worst team was killer. The Pistons always went on those late season "pride" winning streaks in the 2010s to torpedo their draft position back when the lottery odds were more favorable, only to lose out on franchise changing talent again and again in the 2020s. I believe that this team is cursed and will not exceed 30 wins ever again so long as Tom Gores remains the owner.

I don’t believe in curses. We’ve struggled because we’ve been terribly run.

Hopefully that won’t be the case. Too early to tell.

Snakebites wrote:

JNewton wrote:

Snakebites wrote:I think the more realistic thing to happen is a marginal improvement that sees us as the 5th or 6th worst team in the league. That still gives us a decent chance at Flagg, relatively speaking. We'll never have a GOOD chance at him.

I took the question to be more of a pie in the sky "what would I most want". And I'd rather strive for the play-in than strive to once again be the worst.

It's easier to look at this from a more detached perspective when you're early in the rebuild. In recent years I've wanted as many lottery balls as possible. Last year was the year that finally broke me in that regard. It was just...so unpleasant.

Dropping to #5 3 goddamn years in a row while having far and away the worst team was killer. The Pistons always went on those late season "pride" winning streaks in the 2010s to torpedo their draft position back when the lottery odds were more favorable, only to lose out on franchise changing talent again and again in the 2020s. I believe that this team is cursed and will not exceed 30 wins ever again so long as Tom Gores remains the owner.

I don’t believe in curses. We’ve struggled because we’ve been terribly run.

Hopefully that won’t be the case. Too early to tell.

I do think that had the lottery balls dropped in a more normal distribution and we ended up with higher picks then folks would have a different viewpoint. I think we rightfully suffer from a gambler's fallacy PTSD based on what actually happened.

Then again, if things played out closer to odds it's more likely we'd already be further along in terms of talent than we are now and might not be asking this question at all.

Kalamazoo317 wrote:

Snakebites wrote:I think the more realistic thing to happen is a marginal improvement that sees us as the 5th or 6th worst team in the league. That still gives us a decent chance at Flagg, relatively speaking. We'll never have a GOOD chance at him.

If we're the 6th worst team in the league, that means we're probably also the 5th worst team in the East, i.e. the 11th best team, which means we'd be right on the brink of the play-in as well.

Last year, the the 6th worst team was 25 wins. The last playin team in the east was 36. We aren't going to be a 36 win team. Vegas has our over/under at 25, which seems fair. We take a step up from last year, but that's only about half the improvement we need to actually make a playin.

Kalamazoo317 wrote:

Snakebites wrote:I think the more realistic thing to happen is a marginal improvement that sees us as the 5th or 6th worst team in the league. That still gives us a decent chance at Flagg, relatively speaking. We'll never have a GOOD chance at him.

If we're the 6th worst team in the league, that means we're probably also the 5th worst team in the East, i.e. the 11th best team, which means we'd be right on the brink of the play-in as well.

That is exactly my prediction for the year.

The Pistons should improve dramatically this year.

I understand the hesitation in predicting it, as I have stated multiple times that this stretch of bad seasons has put the Pistons in the record books, but, with that said, the Pistons added two players who started for playoff teams last year, and two who played on playoff teams last year.

That is going to make a huge difference. The Pistons haven't had quality vets like this, in a long damn time.

If the Pistons don't win at least 30 games this year, something has gone horribly wrong. (Injuries, coach system sucks, poor trades, Cade doesn't step up, e.t.c)

Can it happen? Yes, of course, but the odds have improved considerably for a much, much better season ahead.

Snakebites wrote:

JNewton wrote:

Snakebites wrote:I think the more realistic thing to happen is a marginal improvement that sees us as the 5th or 6th worst team in the league. That still gives us a decent chance at Flagg, relatively speaking. We'll never have a GOOD chance at him.

I took the question to be more of a pie in the sky "what would I most want". And I'd rather strive for the play-in than strive to once again be the worst.

It's easier to look at this from a more detached perspective when you're early in the rebuild. In recent years I've wanted as many lottery balls as possible. Last year was the year that finally broke me in that regard. It was just...so unpleasant.

Dropping to #5 3 goddamn years in a row while having far and away the worst team was killer. The Pistons always went on those late season "pride" winning streaks in the 2010s to torpedo their draft position back when the lottery odds were more favorable, only to lose out on franchise changing talent again and again in the 2020s. I believe that this team is cursed and will not exceed 30 wins ever again so long as Tom Gores remains the owner.

I don’t believe in curses. We’ve struggled because we’ve been terribly run.

Hopefully that won’t be the case. Too early to tell.

Curse was a bit of a euphemism, for sure.

It's actually a really good question that I had to grapple with for a bit.

I think ideally the Pistons improve and win the draft lottery but if it's a choice of being really bad and landing Flagg vs. Play-In, I'd probably lean towards the play-in because that would represent a huge leap in development for a lot of the young guys and a sign that this might be a group capable of taking an even bigger step going forward.

On the other hand, getting Flagg could raise the ceiling of the team substantially but in the same token if they are bad enough to land him that would mean that this current group is a failure so it would be a brand new rebuild so I take play-in.