Cade Theories

[the_l_train]

Not trying to come here and bitch about Cade --- he has taken a clear step-up this year, and I can envision him being a true #1 option for this team. The glaring holes in his game so far have been the turnovers and looking gassed by the 4th quarter. Curious which one of these theories you guys think may be the culprit.

A) Conditioning - I've seen posters mention this one, and saying he needs to find a "real" trainer in the offseason besides his cousin -- I love AshtonDaTrainer on Twitter, but I could see what people are saying here.

B) Injury History - He has had a few major injuries, and I'm curious if he is just not at 100% still --- this may be giving him some hesitancy to be more aggressive at times, and may make him a step slow with his handle

C) Not actually a PG - I have been driving this point home a lot lately -- I am under the impression he is simply not a point guard and we are mismanaging his true position. Could be more of a 2 who can handle some PG responsibilities like Devin Booker --- or more of a point forward like Grant Hill. I think he has the size to excel at the 2 or 3, and just because he is tall doesn't necessarily mean he is a Luke Doncic-esque PG unicorn. If he had less play making and ball handling duties, he could focus on scoring, and I truly think he could be a 30 point per game guy.

D) HE'S VEGAN ---- dude needs a hamburger or at least more fuel than fruits and veggies to give him the proper legs to get through a whole game.

[Billl]

None of the above. He's played a grand total of 5 games with actual NBA players around him. He developed some bad habits playing with bad lineups and it's going to take some time to un-learn those. Most of his turnovers are coming from trying to do too much against a defense focused on him. Instead of just taking what the defense is giving up and rotating the ball, he's trying to split doubles and make low percentage passes. That's the kind of stuff guys fall into when they can't trust their teammates.

Hopefully over this season, we'll see him take another step in learning how to accept the double, stretch their defense out, and then get the ball moving. It's a fine line between being patient and being passive and he's got a ways to go figuring that out. You can see that working early in games, but when the game gets tight in the 4th, he's still trying to do it on his own.

[MrBigShot]

He is just too lazy with the ball. He started off last year the same way, and then in December through February he averaged less than 3 turnovers a game.

If he's not a point guard then I'd ask, what is a point guard in today's nba? He handles the ball as the primary playmaker, initiates the offense most of the game, and creates scoring opportunities his teammates.

On the season he's at 26/7/6 on 47/40/86 shooting splits. Ultimately with Cade, I think the issue is that he has the expectations of being a franchise player, when he probably is better suited to be an elite 2nd best player.

[mattao313]

I don't think he's a pg his handle just isn't good enough and doesn't collapse a defense consistently to be a main ball handler. Should definitely be a off guard but ivey isn't a real pg either cause his handle is worse but he can collapse a defense better and doesn't need a screen to get open. That and defense is the biggest problem with the backcourt.

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[the_l_train]

Forgot one theory....the braids. Maybe they were a little too tight.

[A_dub06]

Not trying to come here and bitch about Cade --- he has taken a clear step-up this year, and I can envision him being a true #1 option for this team. The glaring holes in his game so far have been the turnovers and looking gassed by the 4th quarter. Curious which one of these theories you guys think may be the culprit.

A) Conditioning - I've seen posters mention this one, and saying he needs to find a "real" trainer in the offseason besides his cousin -- I love AshtonDaTrainer on Twitter, but I could see what people are saying here.

B) Injury History - He has had a few major injuries, and I'm curious if he is just not at 100% still --- this may be giving him some hesitancy to be more aggressive at times, and may make him a step slow with his handle

C) Not actually a PG - I have been driving this point home a lot lately -- I am under the impression he is simply not a point guard and we are mismanaging his true position. Could be more of a 2 who can handle some PG responsibilities like Devin Booker --- or more of a point forward like Grant Hill. I think he has the size to excel at the 2 or 3, and just because he is tall doesn't necessarily mean he is a Luke Doncic-esque PG unicorn. If he had less play making and ball handling duties, he could focus on scoring, and I truly think he could be a 30 point per game guy.

D) HE'S VEGAN ---- dude needs a hamburger or at least more fuel than fruits and veggies to give him the proper legs to get through a whole game.

Option C

I don’t think he’s a point guard, and either is Ivey. We need an efficient point guard general that can hit 3’s and defend. Not sure who that is, but yeah I’d prefer to see Cade as a primary scorer and secondary creator. Would also allow for him to put more effort in on defence too.

I’m also not of the option Cade is THAT guy that can lead a successful team. People say that he hasn’t had a good supporting cast which I agree with, but players that are HIM find a way to overcome that and still get their own. He was drafted #1 and people just assume he’s going to be that guy, and he just isn’t

[JNewton]

Cade uses his brother or cousin as his trainer, which is a concern. I do wish he'd get a professional trainer and dietician (maybe he has and I'm not aware.) But I get the Pistons are probably not currently in a position to really demand much of him on stuff like that.

[Rip32]

He flat out soft imo and non athletic which him easy defendable. Every time the opposition defense tightens he goes limp

[Canadafan]

Not trying to come here and bitch about Cade --- he has taken a clear step-up this year, and I can envision him being a true #1 option for this team. The glaring holes in his game so far have been the turnovers and looking gassed by the 4th quarter. Curious which one of these theories you guys think may be the culprit.

A) Conditioning - I've seen posters mention this one, and saying he needs to find a "real" trainer in the offseason besides his cousin -- I love AshtonDaTrainer on Twitter, but I could see what people are saying here.

B) Injury History - He has had a few major injuries, and I'm curious if he is just not at 100% still --- this may be giving him some hesitancy to be more aggressive at times, and may make him a step slow with his handle

C) Not actually a PG - I have been driving this point home a lot lately -- I am under the impression he is simply not a point guard and we are mismanaging his true position. Could be more of a 2 who can handle some PG responsibilities like Devin Booker --- or more of a point forward like Grant Hill. I think he has the size to excel at the 2 or 3, and just because he is tall doesn't necessarily mean he is a Luke Doncic-esque PG unicorn. If he had less play making and ball handling duties, he could focus on scoring, and I truly think he could be a 30 point per game guy.

D) HE'S VEGAN ---- dude needs a hamburger or at least more fuel than fruits and veggies to give him the proper legs to get through a whole game.

Option C

I don’t think he’s a point guard, and either is Ivey. We need an efficient point guard general that can hit 3’s and defend. Not sure who that is, but yeah I’d prefer to see Cade as a primary scorer and secondary creator. Would also allow for him to put more effort in on defence too.

I’m also not of the option Cade is THAT guy that can lead a successful team. People say that he hasn’t had a good supporting cast which I agree with, but players that are HIM find a way to overcome that and still get their own. He was drafted #1 and people just assume he’s going to be that guy, and he just isn’t

Tyus woulda helped big time. Cade shouldn't be handling the ball so much. He needs someone to help and then get him the ball in a good position to work his magic

[ElectricMayhem]

The biggest thing is he is the first and second focal point of any defense. That's going to lead to a lot of turnovers and that's going to lead to getting exhausted. We can't make teams pay for hounding Cunningham as soon as he touches the ball. We're in a little better position to make them pay this year, but not by much.

[Uncle Mxy]

My theory is that Cade physically shrinks over the course of a game. At the start, he's 6'8" just like the pre-draft measurements. But, by the 4th quarter, he's only 6'4". Years of vegan eating have led to a mycoprotein overabundance which, as everyone should know from high school biology, renders him inherently more gelatinous. It's science, man!

[Kalamazoo317]

He's fine. He's improved every season and we've seen him improve *within* every season. If you were judging Maxey on how good he looks without Embiid or Paul active, you'd probably have similar concerns. We are starting to put some competence around Cade, but he still has to put on a Superman cape most of the time just to keep us in games. I'm not worried about Cade. I'm worried about building around Cade and finding a second star for this team.

[Laimbeer]

He's shown improvement this year, but I don't think he'll ever be what you would hope for a #1 overall pick. He still strikes me as a player without a lot of fire. You can still be a really good player like that, but it's tougher when your alpha doesn't seem to be a leader. As said, he may be best as a scorer and secondary ball-handler, like an ANT-lite.

Then again, Ivey is probably best suited to an ANT type of role as well. Could we get a young point for Ivey? He's shown some improvement, too.

[DetroitSho]

The excuse of him being blitzed on pick n rolls needs to end. There's something in the way he's navigating those screens is causing his own demise. I'm not sure if it's the angle he's taking or what it is, but if you're being blitzed, that automatically creates an easy 4 on 3 if you navigate it correctly. At least it SHOULD.

He needs to go back and look at film of Grant Hill/Otis Thorpe or even old Pistons TMac/Greg Monroe to see how they created open lanes and looks off the screen and controlled the defense off the same play.

Also to add, he's not a PG. But, if he was matched up with another PG who could play off ball 50/50 then that would change the game. His ideal backcourt mate is actually Jrue Holiday or Dejunte Murray.

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[Billl]

The excuse of him being blitzed on pick n rolls needs to end. There's something in the way he's navigating those screens is causing his own demise. I'm not sure if it's the angle he's taking or what it is, but if you're being blitzed, that automatically creates an easy 4 on 3 if you navigate it correctly. At least it SHOULD.

He needs to go back and look at film of Grant Hill/Otis Thorpe or even old Pistons TMac/Greg Monroe to see how they created open lanes and looks off the screen and controlled the defense off the same play.

Also to add, he's not a PG. But, if he was matched up with another PG who could play off ball 50/50 then that would change the game. His ideal backcourt mate is actually Jrue Holiday or Dejunte Murray.

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It's not an "excuse". Literally everyone agrees he needs to get much better handling double teams. He's gotten into the bad habit of trying to force his way through tough spaces instead of swinging it to an open man. That's just kinda what happens when the guy you are swinging it to is killian hayes. It's why we brought in some vet floor spacers.

[DetroitSho]

The excuse of him being blitzed on pick n rolls needs to end. There's something in the way he's navigating those screens is causing his own demise. I'm not sure if it's the angle he's taking or what it is, but if you're being blitzed, that automatically creates an easy 4 on 3 if you navigate it correctly. At least it SHOULD.

He needs to go back and look at film of Grant Hill/Otis Thorpe or even old Pistons TMac/Greg Monroe to see how they created open lanes and looks off the screen and controlled the defense off the same play.

Also to add, he's not a PG. But, if he was matched up with another PG who could play off ball 50/50 then that would change the game. His ideal backcourt mate is actually Jrue Holiday or Dejunte Murray.

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It's not an "excuse". Literally everyone agrees he needs to get much better handling double teams. He's gotten into the bad habit of trying to force his way through tough spaces instead of swinging it to an open man. That's just kinda what happens when the guy you are swinging it to is killian hayes. It's why we brought in some vet floor spacers.

I think my wording was unclear. He was getting the excuse that he was turning it over on those blitzed pnr's due to lack of shooters. They have shooters now, and he started out the season with the same brain-dead turnovers in those situations. So my point is the issue is him and how he's navigating those screens.

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[BadMofoPimp]

Cade could be a great SF.

[Snakebites]

I don't think Cade is a franchise level talent.

He is what he is.

[Uncle Mxy]

Cade could be a great SF.

Cade could be Grant Hill and we'd still have a .500 record with him.

[VicVinegar]

He's very talented, I think his biggest issues are mental mistakes, which can be fixed. He's been surrounded by G League talent every year and BAD coaches. I think a big reason for his turnovers and being "gassed" in the 4th quarter is because he thinks he has to do everything himself - because he always has had to. Hopefully with some new vets and Ivey taking a step forward, he learns he can rely on his teammates.

At the end of the day, the Cade criticism is mainly driven by two factors:

1. He was drafted first overall and expectations are high

He's not Lebron. He's not Wemby. Not every 1st is a slam dunk homerun, and that is OKAY. Hell here in Detroit we have Casey Mize and Spencer Torkelson, things could be much worse. He's 23 and getting better every year. He's likely a top 50 player in the league currently.

2. He's a "Loser"

Pistons have been TERRIBLE the last 3 years and someone has to be the scapegoat. Just like a quarterback on a bad team. I would argue he has had zero help. Who from the pistons the last three years has ended up doing anything elsewhere? Hayes, Livers, Diallo, Lee, Knox and many others are out of the league. These were guys seeing 15+ minutes a game. Burks, Bojan, Bey, none of those guys instantly got better after leaving the Pistons. Could it just be that those guys were holding Cade and the Pistons back, instead of vice versa?