RealGM

I'm seeing conversations about Jalen on the board and how he's been looking this early part of the season and I feel like this might deserve it's own thread.

I know it has been a little underwhelming at times with Jalen so far this season and he's recently came back from another injury. I was hoping that at the very least he would be comfortably outplaying Isaiah Stewart, but I was wondering as a fanbase how are we feeling about him?

Is this our Center of the future? Would you be okay extending him? If not, then what would he have to improve to convince you?

Meh. He just turned 21 yesterday. Great athlete. Has a lot to learn. Honestly, we gave him a much larger roll than he was really ready for. Hopefully this iteration of the organization is going to do a better job developing guys vs just tossing them out there and hoping for the best. If he just concentrates on setting good screens (not moving, proper position and time etc) on offense and continues working towards controlling the paint on defense, he can carve out a long career in the NBA.

No reason to extend him at this point unless he's going for a stewart type deal.

If he could protect the rim I wouldn’t have a problem with him. I think this team would be better served to have a defensive protect the paint type center. Our offense is guard dominated so scoring isn’t that important for me out of the center position.

I know he is young and can still improve but he looks like the same player he was his rookie year (maybe worse).

My hope is he can throw together a couple 20/20 games and we can ship him out for someone who fits this roster better.

I'd say I'm slightly concerned. Obviously the poor defensive play, but also he just doesn't seem to be utilized offensively in Bickerstaff's scheme, so I just don't really see what role he fits on the team. He is far and away the 5th scoring option on offense and most possessions he doesn't even touch the ball - despite shooting 75%. The drop off from 14pts a game last year to 9 this year I did not see coming.

That being said, I think Pistons are committed to him. I don't know what value he has around the league, but likely not much. He is 21, I'd rather hope he improves vs trading him away for a late 1st.

I think we should still view him as a pretty developmental piece, but the concerns are real. How much better would this team be with a legit 7-foot rim protector starting at center?

I am concerned that he is not eating enough babies.
I am concerned that he is not crushing enough enemies.
I am concerned that his weak ankles will limit him.

Unless you're a low salary low MPG backup, you can't just be a good rebounder in the NBA anymore. You need to either be a rim protector and a good rebounder or you need to be able to bring some offensive skillset and be a good rebounder. Right now Duren doesn't bring enough to the table.... but as others have mentioned he is still just turned 21 and he still has a huge upside.

Right now he's a bottom 5 starting center in the league though(hoopshype had him at 27). Stew is a top 5 backup center in the league for sure but overall we're still below average for that department.

Look at what Lively (Dallas) did as a 12th pick rookie... look at what Gafford (also Dallas) did after being traded out of Washington. Look at what Nic Claxton does with 2.1 BPG but also alters even more shots.... He's limited on offense but protects the rim, etc.

I'm still high on his upside and like what he brings some nights but he hasn't consistently brought it enough. That said, I think its very likely that in 3 or 4 years (at age 24 or 25) he'll be a top 13 to 17 center in this league and be an average starter. He's just likely a few years of incremental improvement away from that. I am hoping he is ok with a payday similar to what Stewart got if he's going to continue to split time with Stew at the five.

One interesting thing about "Rim protectors" is that right now, and I know its early, Crafted NBA has the top rim protectors in the league (minimum of 250 minutes played) as...
1. Wemby
2. Amen Thompson (kind of crazy for a non center, but wouldn't it be great if Ausar gets back and provides the same)
3. Nurkic
4. Isiah Stewart (Impressive for the young fella he's been top 10 before, he's been a big reason our defense is league average now)
5. Chet Holgrem

Honestly, there's a very good case for just starting Stew. I think the main reason not to would be a desire to develop Duren and that Stew gets into foul trouble too easily to work as a starter longterm.

Stu is not a great rebounder IMO. Just too small and does get stuck out on the perimeter on D regularly, leaving the paint for the opposition bigs to rebound. Duren is definitely a lot more reliable as a rebounder.
Agree we need a 7 foot rim protector.


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Duren’s turnover percentage is the "worst in the NBA among players who play at least 15 minutes per game."

https://pistonpowered.com/huge-unexpected-problem-jalen-duren-detroit-pistons

I know He is injury prone but Robert Williams would be perfect

imo trajan must address the guarding stretch bigs problem it caused alot of damaged and added losses to games we should've won. bring in a high motor center that'll make the effort to going out to the perimeter, put a hand up to contest those 3 point shots.

A few years ago, I maintained the argument against trading for Ayton was because we can get 80% of what we need out of Ayton out of a rook/soph Duren with plenty of room to grow. Now that those few years have passed, he's still more or less 80 of what you get out of Ayton but with stagnant growth due to injury setbacks and maybe not as talented as once thought

He's fairly replaceable either through the draft or via FA at this point with his production and lack of defense this year

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Saw a stat where Duren is averaging one ankle injury every 15 games he's played…so yeah, I’m concerned.

Seems like a guy that should still hold decent value for other teams who think they can get more out of him.

I wish Naz Reid would ask for a trade…

I'm okay with Duren right now, but I think the question needs to be "what do we project him to be for our team in 2-3 years time?"

If your answer to that is one of our 3 best players, I think that is a serious concern. If you think he is going to be our 5th-7th best player, I'm less concerned.

Part of this is also about getting the right person next to him. He works okay-ish with Beef Stew, but their skillsets don't compliment each other that well.

i'm not concerned and i think the 25/22 minute split with stewart is a good balance but given what duren has showed so far development-wise i wouldn't think he's the starting center for the future. he's still not good defensively and his decision-making overall is questionable. "he's young" is a great excuse until you look at other young players in the league who have a good bball IQ and are improving quickly.

maybe he turns things around but at this point i would hope they don't extend him this coming off season.

With Duren and any young player, I think it's pretty helpful to divide the issues into "does consistently", "shows flashes" and "doesn't do".

On offense, I think he consistently offensive rebounds and rolls to the basket hard. He shows flashes of setting good screens, high handoff action, simple post moves, and finding people off some sort of hub action. He does not shoot with any range or dribble drive.

Defensively, he consistently rebounds and handles simple coverages where the call is to funnel to him. He shows flashes of 1-on-1 post defense and switching on drives. He does not make plays out of his area and doesn't rotate out to shooters well.

Offensively, if he makes progress on some of the areas he shows flashes in - particularly the screening - I think that's fine.
Defensively, I think he's got to be more consistent in those flash areas and also needs to fix at least 1 of the 2 "doesn't do" to become an above average center. When his man lifts out, he either needs to either be able to guard his man out there or gobble up some shots with weak side blocks/challenges. He can't be slow processing the play and be late on challenges down low and also giving up open 3's. He's got to be able to take something away.

I've been concerned for a while. He's not a rim protector and can't space the floor. He's still young and has room to grow, but I'm not seeing much to make me believe that will happen.

I am on record; I would rather start Ausar/Stewart over Duren/THj (or whomever). You really can't have Ausar/Duren out there together right now and IF he's healthy then I'm placing greater priority on getting Ausar on the court. I think he contributes more to winning bball and has higher upside as an elite 2-way wing.

The problem is Stew isn't really the answer either. He just pairs better with Ausar. We still need to find our long-term answer at C.