How long do we wait before blowing it up again?

[A_dub06]

I realise some will just label me negative and a pessimist but realistically, what chances do we have of building a strong team with the players we have on this roster? Ivey has taken a step forward, and Cade has taken a smaller one too but we have so many question marks remaining. Ausur has great defensive skills but a broken shot, Ron Holland is young but we don’t know what he will be yet, Stewart is better than duren but not a starting Center and duren has the brain of a peanut when it comes to bball IQ/awareness and effort that moves with the wind.

When weaver tore the team down with the idea to build via the draft it was the right move, but the decision to tear down took too long and asset management was at pathetic levels so we had bad equity going into it which was always going to limit the teams ability to have multiple bites at the apple in the draft.

I think it’s pretty clear Cade whilst a good player is not a franchise cornerstone, Ivey at best will be a good scoring bad defending guard, and Duren is never going to be the defensive presence we need at the rim. Do we accept our limitations given we don’t have a franchise guy and ask players off now when they will be highly valued in case their value crashes again so we re-build with multiple picks or young players? If you agree with me that’s Cades NOT that guy, I don’t see how you could come to a conclusion where we don’t blow it up since it’s doubtful we are going to have a really high pick to draft in the top 3 going forward. I don’t know about you guys but I don’t want to be another treadmill team again, and our assets are so low we can’t even keep guys on the roster to make a trade for another good player unless you go for someone that will destroy the cap and offer very little chance of increasing the teams ceiling like Ingram for example. I’m interested to know what my fellow Pistons fans feel on this.

[Canadafan]

I'm enjoying that buzzer beater.
Enjoying the youth we have sprinkled in with Beasley and a lesser extent THJR and Tobias.
Hopefully enjoying some NBA cup action in December.
Maybe a trade to add another piece
Another draft pick this summer.
I don't wanna blow it up I just like the direction we're heading now

[JennetteMcCurdy]

Langdon has been marginally better than Weaver. I think both would have extended Cade and drafted Holland. Guessing both would have done the Hardaway trade. The difference is probably that Weaver would have given Tech more years and money and probably wouldn’t have gotten the other two shooters to surround Cade and Ivey.

The problem with having Langdon this year is that he’s made the team better in a year with a great draft approaching.

We’re about four months from posters realizing “Wait, why did we go for the tenth worst record in an eight man draft?”

Followed by

“Can this core group really win anything?”

Shades of 2010-15 all over again…..

[JLiv]

Very few guards lead their teams to championships. Of the last 10 finals MVPs, 7 are forwards that put immense pressure on the defense, one is Steph Curry, one is Iggy (should have been Steph Curry), and the last is Jokic. Steph and Jokic will both go down as top 15 all time.

The Pistons’ best chance for winning a ring without blowing it up again hinges on getting (or developing) a star on the wing. That’s why I was okay with the Ausar and Holland picks - you HAVE to swing for the fences. Hopefully one of them develops a jumper. If not, keep on trying to get one in the draft. When the goal is a ring, you have to take chances on guys who can raise your ceiling to a championship level, even if the miss rate is high.

[mattao313]

Langdon has been marginally better than Weaver. I think both would have extended Cade and drafted Holland. Guessing both would have done the Hardaway trade. The difference is probably that Weaver would have given Tech more years and money and probably wouldn’t have gotten the other two shooters to surround Cade and Ivey.

The problem with having Langdon this year is that he’s made the team better in a year with a great draft approaching.

We’re about four months from posters realizing “Wait, why did we go for the tenth worst record in an eight man draft?”

Followed by

“Can this core group really win anything?”

Shades of 2010-15 all over again…..

Yeah I agree this team definitely feels like a Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond level team hovering around 7-10 seed sucks lol probably will end up blowing it up in 3 to 4 years. We really got screwed in that wembanyama draft. Maybe we get lucky and get a good player in the lower end of the lottery imo that's our only real hope.

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[A_dub06]

I'm enjoying that buzzer beater.
Enjoying the youth we have sprinkled in with Beasley and a lesser extent THJR and Tobias.
Hopefully enjoying some NBA cup action in December.
Maybe a trade to add another piece
Another draft pick this summer.
I don't wanna blow it up I just like the direction we're heading now

Don’t get me wrong it’s been nice to see the young guys compete and most actually at least try defensively, but beyond that with regard to the direction, we need either Ausur or Holland to become a really good player to make any noise, and both to become really good players in order for us to have a chance at being top 4.

Waiting to see where this path leads risks these players either regressing or just not developing enough and their values declining and thus leaving us in the same state prior to our last rebuild without future 1st round picks and just repeats the process. I really like what both guys could become, but I’m pretty firmly in the camp that developing a consistent 3pt shot is not going to happen for Thompson and because of that he will always hurt the team on that end without having a spacing Center that can also defend the rim and those players don’t become available.

[Cowology]

For 20 years I said purgatory was worse than rebuilding. I'm tired of **** rebuilding. Let's just enjoy purgatory for a minute.

[A_dub06]

Langdon has been marginally better than Weaver. I think both would have extended Cade and drafted Holland. Guessing both would have done the Hardaway trade. The difference is probably that Weaver would have given Tech more years and money and probably wouldn’t have gotten the other two shooters to surround Cade and Ivey.

The problem with having Langdon this year is that he’s made the team better in a year with a great draft approaching.

We’re about four months from posters realizing “Wait, why did we go for the tenth worst record in an eight man draft?”

Followed by

“Can this core group really win anything?”

Shades of 2010-15 all over again…..

I doubt weaver would have been able to get Fred Vinson on this team though and I think he will help the team regardless of direction. I don’t think we can fault Langdon yet as he hasn’t really had much to work with although I was and still are against the need to have Harris on the team.

This draft is definitely better and if we don’t have a high pick it’s going to sting for sure, but even going forward what does it look like next season as well? Maybe we lose our pick after next season and then how are we building this team? It just feels to me Weaver really screwed us so hard the stink of his past is going to remain on this team and handicap us too much to be able to build. If we want to trade for another player what assets are we giving up to acquire that difference maker? We don’t have enough assets to get one without giving up something of value so the net result might only be a little increase.

[A_dub06]

Langdon has been marginally better than Weaver. I think both would have extended Cade and drafted Holland. Guessing both would have done the Hardaway trade. The difference is probably that Weaver would have given Tech more years and money and probably wouldn’t have gotten the other two shooters to surround Cade and Ivey.

The problem with having Langdon this year is that he’s made the team better in a year with a great draft approaching.

We’re about four months from posters realizing “Wait, why did we go for the tenth worst record in an eight man draft?”

Followed by

“Can this core group really win anything?”

Shades of 2010-15 all over again…..

Yeah I agree this team definitely feels like a Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond level team hovering around 7-10 seed sucks lol probably will end up blowing it up in 3 to 4 years. We really got screwed in that wembanyama draft. Maybe we get lucky and get a good player in the lower end of the lottery imo that's our only real hope.

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The odds of that though are incredibly slim which is why I think it’s better to eat the dirt now and blow it up as if we miss on the next draft pick and lose next years pick then we will be royally screwed. That’s a whole lot of risk we are taking on for unlikely hope.

[A_dub06]

For 20 years I said purgatory was worse than rebuilding. I'm tired of **** rebuilding. Let's just enjoy purgatory for a minute.

Purgatory does suck but what sucks even more is a bleak future imo but I don’t blame you for feeling the way you do. I just want to see this team become a force again and I don’t see the pathway to that outside of a broken shooter in Ausur and bad shooter in Holland at least for right now becoming snipers from deep. Risk vs reward is rally bad.

[Cowology]

For 20 years I said purgatory was worse than rebuilding. I'm tired of **** rebuilding. Let's just enjoy purgatory for a minute.

Purgatory does suck but what sucks even more is a bleak future imo but I don’t blame you for feeling the way you do. I just want to see this team become a force again and I don’t see the pathway to that outside of a broken shooter in Ausur and bad shooter in Holland at least for right now becoming snipers from deep. Risk vs reward is rally bad.

The system has been tweaked to make tanking less palpable. We've seen that play out in real time over the past few seasons. You can say "bad luck" with regards to the draft lottery results, but it's essentially working as intended. The system probably requires a few tweaks because teams do still need a legitimate path back to relevancy, but as it's currently structured you are taking an awfully big risk by tanking.

Right now there is no super clear path fwd, but we're in yr 1 of a new regime. Patience is absolutely the most prudent move. That doesn't mean you can't change your mind later, but we need to try and win some games. Some of this is just culture. You are not going to develop a winning team with a losing mentality.

You listen to every offer. You look at all your options. But I don't think you are in a big rush to make a big move right now unless it is a clear & significant upgrade.

[mattao313]

Langdon has been marginally better than Weaver. I think both would have extended Cade and drafted Holland. Guessing both would have done the Hardaway trade. The difference is probably that Weaver would have given Tech more years and money and probably wouldn’t have gotten the other two shooters to surround Cade and Ivey.

The problem with having Langdon this year is that he’s made the team better in a year with a great draft approaching.

We’re about four months from posters realizing “Wait, why did we go for the tenth worst record in an eight man draft?”

Followed by

“Can this core group really win anything?”

Shades of 2010-15 all over again…..

Yeah I agree this team definitely feels like a Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond level team hovering around 7-10 seed sucks lol probably will end up blowing it up in 3 to 4 years. We really got screwed in that wembanyama draft. Maybe we get lucky and get a good player in the lower end of the lottery imo that's our only real hope.

Sent from my moto g 5G - 2024 using RealGM mobile app

The odds of that though are incredibly slim which is why I think it’s better to eat the dirt now and blow it up as if we miss on the next draft pick and lose next years pick then we will be royally screwed. That’s a whole lot of risk we are taking on for unlikely hope.

Yeah it just depends on how much you think we could get for some of our "core" pieces. I don't think none of our guys are that valuable to cash in yet. Cade is probably the closest but he ain't that good if I was another team Cade wouldn't be my 1st, 2nd, or 3rd cash in trade option.

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[zeebneeb]

Holy crap. Cade is one of only three players in the league averaging 23 points,(23.5) 8 assists,(8.9) and 7 rebounds(7.2) per game in the league, and he's not a franchise cornerstone.

(The "others" being James and Jokic)

**** hell.

"Not a PG" 8.9 apg 4th in the league.

Grant Hill never even averaged those numbers.

What the hell do people want? Its his third season.(missed a while year for injury, or did we all just collectively forget that?)

As for the rest of the team, can we see how the season plays out first? Did we forget that the team had a saboteur last season as a head coach?

It hasn't even been 20 games and the Pistons are having their best season since 2018 and we got a guy playing at an all-nba level.

Pump the brakes.

[bstein14]

Holy crap. Cade is one of only three players in the league averaging 23 points,(23.5) 8 assists,(8.9) and 7 rebounds(7.2) per game in the league, and he's not a franchise cornerstone.

(The "others" being James and Jokic)

**** hell.

"Not a PG" 8.9 apg 4th in the league.

Grant Hill never even averaged those numbers.

What the hell do people want? Its his third season.(missed a while year for injury, or did we all just collectively forget that?)

As for the rest of the team, can we see how the season plays out first? Did we forget that the team had a saboteur last season as a head coach?

It hasn't even been 20 games and the Pistons are having their best season since 2018 and we got a guy playing at an all-nba level.

Pump the brakes.

Weaver just came in and cleared house even though we had some decent young players in Brown and Kennard. I think its safe to say TL has shown some patience on build on what's in place instead of just feeling the need to automatically make the team "his team".... I would be ok with moving on from one of the Weaver draft picks at the deadline or in the offseason but it doesn't really make sense to do a clean slate.

Our draft pick is top 13 protected this year I could see us being very likely to make the play-in games and then losing in them and having the 9th or 10th pick this year to build on with our already young core... and then the bigger jump forward next season into actually making the playoffs.

14 wins to mid to low 30s wins and the play-in in 2025 to mid 40s wins and being a playoff team in 2026 is a fine pace to be at coming off a 14 win season. No need to reset anything at this point.

[BadMofoPimp]

This is the very start to a new beginning and development moving forward. Make a few tweeks in a few years and this could develop into a contender like any other team who is managed well with low injuries. To think that it is time to blow it up right as the team starts making strides is kind of insane. I think this is just starting to get exciting

[A_dub06]

Holy crap. Cade is one of only three players in the league averaging 23 points,(23.5) 8 assists,(8.9) and 7 rebounds(7.2) per game in the league, and he's not a franchise cornerstone.

(The "others" being James and Jokic)

**** hell.

"Not a PG" 8.9 apg 4th in the league.

Grant Hill never even averaged those numbers.

What the hell do people want? Its his third season.(missed a while year for injury, or did we all just collectively forget that?)

As for the rest of the team, can we see how the season plays out first? Did we forget that the team had a saboteur last season as a head coach?

It hasn't even been 20 games and the Pistons are having their best season since 2018 and we got a guy playing at an all-nba level.

Pump the brakes.

Russel Westbrook set the record for most triple
Doubles, what has he accomplished again? Stats are one thing, winning games are another. I don’t believe Cade is a player that can quarterback a great team. You’re not even quoting his %’s, 44/35/80 are not great numbers by any means. He’s not a good defender, he’s turnover heavy and with his athletic limitations he needs to be much more efficient to become a franchise player.

Yes it’s his 4th season and yes he’s played with scrubs, but actually great players get there’s regardless and overcome which is why they are great players and Cade is not.

[mattao313]

Holy crap. Cade is one of only three players in the league averaging 23 points,(23.5) 8 assists,(8.9) and 7 rebounds(7.2) per game in the league, and he's not a franchise cornerstone.

(The "others" being James and Jokic)

**** hell.

"Not a PG" 8.9 apg 4th in the league.

Grant Hill never even averaged those numbers.

What the hell do people want? Its his third season.(missed a while year for injury, or did we all just collectively forget that?)

As for the rest of the team, can we see how the season plays out first? Did we forget that the team had a saboteur last season as a head coach?

It hasn't even been 20 games and the Pistons are having their best season since 2018 and we got a guy playing at an all-nba level.

Pump the brakes.

Yeah with a 53 ts averaging 5 turnovers a game stop being a homer. He is not a franchise cornerstone.

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[NYPiston]

How do you go about "blowing it up" though?

I don't know, the timing of the thread seems weird considering that the team has already reached half of last seasons' entire win total in 19 games lol. A testament to how bad they were last season but also to the significant improvements made early on this season.

The right thing to do is to let this play out, let these young guys grow under competent coaching and see where it takes them. There's no reason why this team can't take an Orlando/Houston level jump maybe not this season but certainly by next.
The one thing I'd do is scour the trade market for Duren. He's very talented but I don't believe that he's a guy this particular core can win big with simply because he's just another non-shooter in a lineup of young player full of non-shooters. Cade and Ivey are improving as shooters but are still on the average side, Holland and Ausar are likely to never be shooters (I'd look to move on of them as well down the line). Other than that, I don't see the need to blow it up but I do think they need a core piece or two that fits better with Cade, Ivey and Ausar/Holland.

[A_dub06]

How do you go about "blowing it up" though?

I don't know, the timing of the thread seems weird considering that the team has already reached half of last seasons' entire win total in 19 games lol. A testament to how bad they were last season but also to the significant improvements made early on this season.

The right thing to do is to let this play out, let these young guys grow under competent coaching and see where it takes them. There's no reason why this team can't take an Orlando/Houston level jump maybe not this season but certainly by next.
The one thing I'd do is scour the trade market for Duren. He's very talented but I don't believe that he's a guy this particular core can win big with simply because he's just another non-shooter in a lineup of young player full of non-shooters. Cade and Ivey are improving as shooters but are still on the average side, Holland and Ausar are likely to never be shooters (I'd look to move on of them as well down the line). Other than that, I don't see the need to blow it up but I do think they need a core piece or two that fits better with Cade, Ivey and Ausar/Holland.

Trade Cade, Ivey, Duren & Thompson (if the offer is high enough) for preferably as many 1st round picks as possible. Stew and Tek could also be traded but also depend on the trade package. It just depends on what the offers are.

You’re talking about adding pieces which I need to ask co’w from where exactly? We won’t finish bottom 5 in the draft and our pick this or next year will be gone form the dumb Stew trade. Or if it’s via trade you need to give up something to get something so which asset are you moving to get back another one? If you’re not trading Cade I don’t even know what the best package we could get would be, so how are we trading players with question marks and getting back something better? Ivey has played great thus far but what if he regressed in the 2nd half of the season? There’s no clear path to improve without development across to the board.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

How do you go about "blowing it up" though?

I don't know, the timing of the thread seems weird considering that the team has already reached half of last seasons' entire win total in 19 games lol. A testament to how bad they were last season but also to the significant improvements made early on this season.

The right thing to do is to let this play out, let these young guys grow under competent coaching and see where it takes them. There's no reason why this team can't take an Orlando/Houston level jump maybe not this season but certainly by next.
The one thing I'd do is scour the trade market for Duren. He's very talented but I don't believe that he's a guy this particular core can win big with simply because he's just another non-shooter in a lineup of young player full of non-shooters. Cade and Ivey are improving as shooters but are still on the average side, Holland and Ausar are likely to never be shooters (I'd look to move on of them as well down the line). Other than that, I don't see the need to blow it up but I do think they need a core piece or two that fits better with Cade, Ivey and Ausar/Holland.

Trade Cade, Ivey, Duren & Thompson (if the offer is high enough) for preferably as many 1st round picks as possible. Stew and Tek could also be traded but also depend on the trade package. It just depends on what the offers are.

You’re talking about adding pieces which I need to ask co’w from where exactly? We won’t finish bottom 5 in the draft and our pick this or next year will be gone form the dumb Stew trade. Or if it’s via trade you need to give up something to get something so which asset are you moving to get back another one? If you’re not trading Cade I don’t even know what the best package we could get would be, so how are we trading players with question marks and getting back something better? Ivey has played great thus far but what if he regressed in the 2nd half of the season? There’s no clear path to improve without development across to the board.

The time to do all that was this past summer. But after that Word Salad presser it was pretty obvious it wasn’t going to happen.

So TL is having the young core grow together. I do enjoy watching them so much more than last year. It’s just….. the timing couldn’t be worse