2nd Apron = Hard Cap = Opportunity

[theBigLip]

Our cap situation is just fine. But several other teams are basically f—ked w high payrolls and poor results. This summer will be like walking into a candy store - lots of opportunities to pick up players. Many legit players will be given away just for cap space.

So as well as dealing with our own free agents, we really need to look at the market. And be patient - teams will get more desperate as the summer rolls on.

With that in mind, I think we take care of Beasley, but Schroeder and THJ can wait. There could be better options.

[Snakebites]

Our cap situation is just fine. But several other teams are basically f—ked w high payrolls and poor results. This summer will be like walking into a candy store - lots of opportunities to pick up players. Many legit players will be given away just for cap space.

So as well as dealing with our own free agents, we really need to look at the market. And be patient - teams will get more desperate as the summer rolls on.

With that in mind, I think we take care of Beasley, but Schroeder and THJ can wait. There could be better options.

Don't forget we're gonna need money to keep our guys.

It's not just about the upcoming season. If we overcommit we could be in the same situation as the teams you're talking about in a couple of seasons.

[theBigLip]

Our cap situation is just fine. But several other teams are basically f—ked w high payrolls and poor results. This summer will be like walking into a candy store - lots of opportunities to pick up players. Many legit players will be given away just for cap space.

So as well as dealing with our own free agents, we really need to look at the market. And be patient - teams will get more desperate as the summer rolls on.

With that in mind, I think we take care of Beasley, but Schroeder and THJ can wait. There could be better options.

Don't forget we're gonna need money to keep our guys.

It's not just about the upcoming season. If we overcommit we could be in the same situation as the teams you're talking about in a couple of seasons.

Totally agree. I don’t know if it’s wise to have 2 Max players on a roster anymore. Best strategy might be one Max player and a handful of $20M players. The new CBA is certainly having an impact.

[Snakebites]

Our cap situation is just fine. But several other teams are basically f—ked w high payrolls and poor results. This summer will be like walking into a candy store - lots of opportunities to pick up players. Many legit players will be given away just for cap space.

So as well as dealing with our own free agents, we really need to look at the market. And be patient - teams will get more desperate as the summer rolls on.

With that in mind, I think we take care of Beasley, but Schroeder and THJ can wait. There could be better options.

Don't forget we're gonna need money to keep our guys.

It's not just about the upcoming season. If we overcommit we could be in the same situation as the teams you're talking about in a couple of seasons.

Totally agree. I don’t know if it’s wise to have 2 Max players on a roster anymore. Best strategy might be one Max player and a handful of $20M players. The new CBA is certainly having an impact.

I actually think it makes it darn near impossible to build a dynasty now.

Take a look at what happened to the Bucks- hands tied as their championship core aged out. The Nuggets have (on the whole) gotten a little weaker every year since they won it all. The Celtics, even before the Tatum injury, had a shot at repeating this year but were absolutely staring down the barrell and likely to face significant changes to their core group in the offseason.

And yeah, it's impacting non-championship teams too. We've seen a few teams go all-in and end up falling short too.

Under this new CBA the teams that are successful (IMO) are going to be the teams that anticpate that crunch BEFORE it happens and behave proactively. We're firmly within that window now, so I hope TL knows whats up.

[ComboGuardCity]

The new cap was an over correction in reaction to KD’s move. You should be able to keep your home grown talent regardless of cap

[bstein14]

Cavs jumped up into the 2nd apron with Mobley winning DPOY... I know their owner is likely one of the few willing to pay as he's ultra competitive and worth a ton (2nd richest owner in the league behind only Steve Ballmer) but at the same time it does handicap you as a franchise and also costs a ton of money to stay up in that 2nd apron.

Cavs will almost certainly need to lose one of Ty Jerome(6th man FA), DeAndre Hunter, Max Strus or Issac Okoro before the start of next season.

Denver is just under the 2nd apron and may have to finally move on from MPjr.

Boston has a massive payroll and will likely reduce salary via trade as well unless they win again.

Pistons in a position to have the 2nd most caproom in the league behind only Brooklyn if they want to renounce their FAs.

[Snakebites]

Cavs jumped up into the 2nd apron with Mobley winning DPOY... I know their owner is likely one of the few willing to pay as he's ultra competitive and worth a ton (2nd richest owner in the league behind only Steve Ballmer) but at the same time it does handicap you as a franchise and also costs a ton of money to stay up in that 2nd apron.

This was part of the problem with the previous CBA- you had rich owners who simply didn’t really care about luxury tax penalties.

Under this system the benefit to an owner willing to splurge is mitigated somewhat. The second apron is pretty much unacceptable unless you’re a team set to contend for the foreseeable future.

[Mr Peanut]

Hopefully Langdon makes the most of it. Weaver would've sold our ~20M cap space for two distant seconds prior to FA starting (again).

[theBigLip]

We’re in good shape. Except for Fontecchio, I don’t think we have any bad contracts, and he might have just been playing hurt last season. We should be able to score some other players. More shooters? Backup PG? I think another scorer is essential, even if we do retain Beasley.

[GreekAlex]

We’re in good shape. Except for Fontecchio, I don’t think we have any bad contracts, and he might have just been playing hurt last season. We should be able to score some other players. More shooters? Backup PG? I think another scorer is essential, even if we do retain Beasley.

Don’t forget, it’s a contract year for Fontecchio.

Might be a little more motivation to play like when we originally acquired him.

[bstein14]

Cavs jumped up into the 2nd apron with Mobley winning DPOY... I know their owner is likely one of the few willing to pay as he's ultra competitive and worth a ton (2nd richest owner in the league behind only Steve Ballmer) but at the same time it does handicap you as a franchise and also costs a ton of money to stay up in that 2nd apron.

This was part of the problem with the previous CBA- you had rich owners who simply didn’t really care about luxury tax penalties.

Under this system the benefit to an owner willing to splurge is mitigated somewhat. The second apron is pretty much unacceptable unless you’re a team set to contend for the foreseeable future.

Cavs have good depth so they could keep everyone and just add 1 or 2 vets on minimum salary deals. Its all a matter of whether or not they are content essentially running it back with the same group next year. They are mostly younger and getting better or at least staying in their primes as everyone in their rotation is in their 20s still.

[blog_pistons]

We have some cap space around $19 million if Cade ends up being an All-NBA player. The problem with signing free agents is for next season, where we'll need to consider Ivey and Duren's salaries to have reasonable salaries around Cade and not overcommit ourselves. This summer, it'll be easy to retain Schroder for around $6-$9 million per year for a couple of years (a second year, perhaps optional), and with the MLE, you can re-sign Beasley because you can't offer him more than $7 million under his current contract; I think it's exactly $7.2 million. So that would give us around $10 million "extra" in cap space to fill three roster spots.

Cade-Denis-Sasser
Ivey-Beasley-SPOT 1
Ausar-Holland-SPOT 2
Tobias- TEK-Klitman
Duren-Stew-SPOT 3

I think Waters will be back, Trajan likes him from his time in OKC.

I would try to move Sasser and Fontechio. The Italian may not have much of a market, but he's experienced, and Sasser needs another place to play minutes; I don't see him as a future asset in Detroit.
Klitman isn't a problem, but he needs to improve significantly to offer NBA bench quality.
I think we'll move into the market after re-signing Schroder and Beasley, although Beasley's re-signing may take a little longer than expected due to having to use the MLE.


Sorry for my english.

[theBigLip]

We have some cap space around $19 million if Cade ends up being an All-NBA player. The problem with signing free agents is for next season, where we'll need to consider Ivey and Duren's salaries to have reasonable salaries around Cade and not overcommit ourselves. This summer, it'll be easy to retain Schroder for around $6-$9 million per year for a couple of years (a second year, perhaps optional), and with the MLE, you can re-sign Beasley because you can't offer him more than $7 million under his current contract; I think it's exactly $7.2 million. So that would give us around $10 million "extra" in cap space to fill three roster spots.

Cade-Denis-Sasser
Ivey-Beasley-SPOT 1
Ausar-Holland-SPOT 2
Tobias- TEK-Klitman
Duren-Stew-SPOT 3

I think Waters will be back, Trajan likes him from his time in OKC.

I would try to move Sasser and Fontechio. The Italian may not have much of a market, but he's experienced, and Sasser needs another place to play minutes; I don't see him as a future asset in Detroit.
Klitman isn't a problem, but he needs to improve significantly to offer NBA bench quality.
I think we'll move into the market after re-signing Schroder and Beasley, although Beasley's re-signing may take a little longer than expected due to having to use the MLE.

Sorry for my english.

Good post. Your English is fine.

The PF position looks weak. I think if we move Tek, Sasser and some draft picks, we could get a quality backup/future starting PF.

[blog_pistons]

Some ideas...

Royce O'Neale x Tek & Sasser (Royce 10,125,000 (25/26) $10,875,000 (26/27) $11,625,000 (27/28)
Gafford x Tek & Sasser and one/two 2nd round (Gafford $14,386,320) same with PJ Whasingthon
Richaun Holmes x Tek & Sasser (Holmes $13,280,737)
Okongwu x Tek & Sasser and one/two 2nd round (Okongu 25/26 $15,000,000 26/27 $16,120,000 27/28 $16,880,000)
Obi Toppin x Tek & Sasser (Toppin 25/26 $14,000,000 26/27 $15,000,000 27/28 $16,025,000)
Deni Avdija x Tek & Sasser and one/two first round lottery protected (Avdija 25/26 $14,375,000 26/27 $13,125,000 27/28 $11,875,000)

[Crymson]

Our cap situation is just fine. But several other teams are basically f—ked w high payrolls and poor results. This summer will be like walking into a candy store - lots of opportunities to pick up players. Many legit players will be given away just for cap space.

The 2nd apron is not a hard cap. It becomes a hard cap only if a team does certain things. Otherwise, it's just a barrier past which additional restrictions on acquiring talent apply. Teams which are far above the cap and want to compete are the least likely to simply dump good players, because they are the least able to replace those players.

That's why we saw no instances of such players being jettisoned last summer. This upcoming offseason does not figure to be any different.

[Crymson]

Cavs jumped up into the 2nd apron with Mobley winning DPOY... I know their owner is likely one of the few willing to pay as he's ultra competitive and worth a ton (2nd richest owner in the league behind only Steve Ballmer) but at the same time it does handicap you as a franchise and also costs a ton of money to stay up in that 2nd apron.

This was part of the problem with the previous CBA- you had rich owners who simply didn’t really care about luxury tax penalties.

Under this system the benefit to an owner willing to splurge is mitigated somewhat. The second apron is pretty much unacceptable unless you’re a team set to contend for the foreseeable future.

Just getting below the second apron doesn't increase flexibility by much, and only in extremely rare cases will doing so be worth dumping anyone of value.

As for tax penalties, the second apron is a correlation rather than a cause; second apron teams have hefty tax bills because they're paying a lot of salary, not because they're above the second apron.

[Snakebites]

Cavs jumped up into the 2nd apron with Mobley winning DPOY... I know their owner is likely one of the few willing to pay as he's ultra competitive and worth a ton (2nd richest owner in the league behind only Steve Ballmer) but at the same time it does handicap you as a franchise and also costs a ton of money to stay up in that 2nd apron.

This was part of the problem with the previous CBA- you had rich owners who simply didn’t really care about luxury tax penalties.

Under this system the benefit to an owner willing to splurge is mitigated somewhat. The second apron is pretty much unacceptable unless you’re a team set to contend for the foreseeable future.

Just getting below the second apron doesn't increase flexibility by much, and only in extremely rare cases will doing so be worth dumping anyone of value.

As for tax penalties, the second apron is a correlation rather than a cause; second apron teams have hefty tax bills because they're paying a lot of salary, not because they're above the second apron.

The secondary restrictions are pretty significant- they can’t aggregate salaries in trades and they lose the mid level exception. Teams are trying to avoid and get out of it for a reason.

[BadMofoPimp]

I still think Schroder is a key player to keep. He slides in well when Cade is out and is a competitor. Hard to find that have to trade for but only need to resign at his price range. 2nd unit could use his abilities.

[Crymson]

The secondary restrictions are pretty significant- they can’t aggregate salaries in trades and they lose the mid level exception. Teams are trying to avoid and get out of it for a reason.

They lose the TP-MLE, which, at only around $5.7 million, is too small to add anyone of substance who wouldn't just sign for the minimum to be part of a contender anyway. It certainly won't replace a genuinely useful rotation player. The trade restrictions are unhelpful, but dumping a useful player in order to shed those restrictions would be counterproductive in all but a very niche scenario; and a team in such a scenario would find a way to bundle that player into the trade rather than ship him out for nothing.

Teams are trying to avoid the second apron until they're ready to field a contender because once you're there, you're restricted and it's tough to get out. Teams that are already there pretty much just need to live with it and to hold tight to the talent you've got.

The Pistons had a boatload of cap space last offseason, the advent of the second apron. Zero good opportunities from second apron teams presented themselves, and the above is why. THJ was the best offer they received, and that was from a team trying to avoid the first apron so that it could use the NTP-MLE.

[the_l_train]

I still think Schroder is a key player to keep. He slides in well when Cade is out and is a competitor. Hard to find that have to trade for but only need to resign at his price range. 2nd unit could use his abilities.

100% agree. I’m hoping Shroder/Beasley are liking this situation enough to take a reasonable offer to stay.

I absolutely hated staggering Cade and Ivey at the PG spot to start the year, and would love to see how Shroder meshes with Ivey.