Flip and the Bench...

[Champs04bigshot]

For the last two years our starters have shown that if we are going to get back to the finals we need consistant minutes and production from the bench. Flip Saunders tonight went with Hunter over Stuckey in the second half. Hunter played well but in the end Flip has not played our young bench in close games against good teams examples Boston and Spurs tonight. I know that Stuckey, Hayes and Maxiell are going to have to play in playoff games and play big minutes. It seems Flip will only play Stuckey in blowouts or games against lesser competition and Hayes minutes have gone down drastically since the beginning of the year. I can already see a pattern we have been praising his use of the bench so far this season. But he still reluctant and un trusting in big games. I see this as being a problem and in the playoffs i hope he proves me wrong but i doubt it and in a couple months i hope we wont be saying what a waste of a season. Our eight man rotation is the best bench in the east. Wee need to use it and rely on it. Stuckey again is our future at the point position and for him to be afraid to play him in big games is scary to me. Because if we go into the playoffs and Flip goes back to forty minutes for our starters we will lose. What do you guys think? Stuckey and Hayes should get consistant minutes to help build confidence for their play in the playoffs i see this trend as being troubling i hope that its not just me and someone else can see this.

[bstein14]

Flip has played the bench.

And there is nothing wrong with going for a W against the defending champion after losing two games in a row. This was a big win for us.

Hopefully now that the toughest 3 game stretch we have all season is over we'll get back to beating up on bad teams and getting lots of play for our young guys.

[theBigLip]

Stuckey couldn't play tonight because of a precaution with his hand, that's why Lindsey was activated.

[Champs04bigshot]

Stuckey was able to play he played and look fine in the first half in limited minutes. I understand that we got the win but whats more important getting a win in early january or giving Stuckey minutes and experience against good teams. What happens when he is forced to play against Boston in the playoffs and he hasnt played real minutes against them all year? I understand and even said Flip has played his bench well. All i wanted to get across is at this point in the season experience for young guys is more valuable than a win. We are comfortably in second place in the east and a three game losing streak would do nothing to our veterans. Experience for them to play in tight positions against good teams is more valuable in my opinion.

[triplet1984]

The problem wasn't the Hunter/Stuckey thing in the 4th...

...the problem was riding the starters (except for Max) the ENTIRE THIRD QUARTER.... as they CHOKED AWAY A LEAD... by the way they were on the back end of the TOUGHEST BACK TO BACK OF THE SEASON.

The starters were looking gassed and the lead evaporated. THAT's when the bench should have gotten burn, about halfway or 2/3rds the way through the 3rd quarter.

[nasty daddy]

The problem wasn't the Hunter/Stuckey thing in the 4th...

...the problem was riding the starters (except for Max) the ENTIRE THIRD QUARTER.... as they CHOKED AWAY A LEAD... by the way they were on the back end of the TOUGHEST BACK TO BACK OF THE SEASON.

The starters were looking gassed and the lead evaporated. THAT's when the bench should have gotten burn, about halfway or 2/3rds the way through the 3rd quarter.

IMO Flip had to play our starters to ensure a victory, after 2 straight losses.

[Muzzleshot]

We are comfortably in second place in the east and a three game losing streak would do nothing to our veterans.

Tell that to Rasheed who was clearly perturbed by the way they've been playing over the previous to games. Winning does a lot for any player, that's why they play the game.

By the way, probably the worst coaching decision of the night was the genius not calling a timeout in the 1st quarter when the Pistons were absolutely taking it to the Spurs. There are not many times where you'll see a team go on a 18-2 run without an NBA coach calling a time out. Not a big deal in my opinion with a veteran team, but if Flip let something like that happen he'd catch absolute hell on this board over that.

[7r5ur]

Flip has played the bench.

And there is nothing wrong with going for a W against the defending champion after losing two games in a row. This was a big win for us.

Hopefully now that the toughest 3 game stretch we have all season is over we'll get back to beating up on bad teams and getting lots of play for our young guys.

Going for the W is playing Stuckey in the 2nd half. Playing Lindsey is Flip's way of deflecting the blame of the last 2 losses off of him and onto the rookies.

The Pistons would have won this game regardless of who played backup point in the 2nd half. The Spurs didn't have it together. That much was obvious. Lindsey played pretty well, but Rodney has done well most any time he has been put out on the floor and given a shot to actually play his game (not the stand in the corner game Flip loves playing with anyone under the age of 26).

[prophet_of_rage]

You forget that Flip played his rookie backcourt together in the Boston game after they got a 12 point lead and they proceeded to give it all away.

They got burn in a blowout game against Dallas. Do you really think Sheed, Rip and Billups are going to willingly ride the pine when they need a win on a road trip and they're playing the team that they lost their championship to?

The bench is getting time but the Pistons need to beat quality opponents and they needed a win in the worst way last night. You can't lose to three elite teams.

And no the Pistons would not have won with just anybody playing backup point. You need poise and savvy. That's what Hunter brings.

[Liqourish]

They got burn in a blowout game against Dallas.

WHAT?!? They cut the deficit the starters obtained and then didn't sniff the court again until Flip surrendered in a 20 pt massacre because he left the starters in when they sucked ass. I refuse to give credit to Flip for playing the bench in that Dallas game when you realize HOW he used the bench in the Dallas game.

You need poise and savvy. That's what Hunter brings.

We'll agree to disagree, but what happens when Hunter gets injured and all you have is Stuckey/Afflalo... what happens then? Play Chauncey/Rip 48 mins each?

Three losses suck, but we're in January. Our starers aren't playing at a high level and the young guys NEED to play.

[ADM]

Everyone is way too flipped out about the bench playing. The Big 4 are all averaging several minutes per game less than last year and we've been able to mix the bench in pretty well. It shouldn't shock you that the starters play more in games against the best teams in the league. When we get back to blowing out scrubs, we'll get back to playing the bench more.

Also, I think Flip made the right decision to put Lindsey in last night. Yes, you have to give Stuckey minutes, but you have to put him in a position to succeed. For whatever reason, Jacque Vaughn was giving him fits putting pressure on him bringing the ball up, so he was thoroughly useless out there. He needs to develop his handle (AND REGAIN FULL USE OF HIS LEFT HAND) before you just throw him to the wolves, IMO.

[Liqourish]

The starter minutes are down due to the amount of games where the Pistons were up large going into the fourth. Also the massacre in Dallas were Flip surrendered after letting the starters give the game away, the bench got a good 7 minutes in to skew the numbers.

I'm not going out on a limb when I say, the best teams in the league are exactly who are bench is going to see in the playoffs. They needed these games more than Tayshaun, Sheed, Rip and Chauncey.

Sheed and Tay had an amazing game against San Antonio, but they shouldn't have to play 40+ minutes no matter who they face.

Rip was the only starter who showed up against Dallas, yet Tay, Sheed and Chauncey all played the entire third quarter while the 5 pt deficit turned into a 19 pt deficit. This is when we need the bench, and yet they aren't trusted enough to play, even though they played well in the 1st half.

I'm not by any means claiming that all the bench should play 30 mpg, but there are situation when this team needs fresh legs or a change of pace and thats what the bench provides and yet they aren't called upon.

Bench guys should earn their minutes.... absolutely. So why isn't Afflalo playing? He's earned minutes. Dice was in foul trouble all game against the Spurs and Max was frustrated, why didn't Herrmann get in there for 5 mins? He played well against Dirk and Saunders even said that Walter earned more time... yet he got rewarded by obtaining another DNP-CD.

For the last time, I'm not saying the starters and bench should have alotted minutes no matter what, but situations in which the bench should play, they are not because Flip wants to ride the starters win or lose.

[triplet1984]

Sorry but playing the starters the whole 3rd quarter was pretty much a disaster. A 15-20 point lead evaporated. They were sluggish, it was the tail end of the toughest back to back, they were sucking up gas.

Nobody here actually defends the 3rd quarter, that's where Flip **** up. The result here is the starters played the whole third quarter... got like 4 to 5 minutes of rest, then played the 2nd half of the 4th quarter.

What's that you say? The 4th quarter is the most critical? Well no ****, then why are they playing the whole damn 3rd WHILE THEY ARE GIVING UP THE LEAD?

Flip hasn't learned ****, he just looks good because the starters had a few amazing 3rd quarters against bad teams that led to blowouts. Mark my words, if the starters didn't pull out the early blowouts, their season averages in minutes would be the same.

[Liqourish]

What's that you say? The 4th quarter is the most critical? Well no ****, then why are they playing the whole damn 3rd WHILE THEY ARE GIVING UP THE LEAD?

^shhhhhhh... you're not suppose to actually pay attention to these types of things, just be thankful that Flip coached us to a victory over the Spurs in January.

[princeofpalace]

Flip Saunders has played the bench vastly more in comparison to last year. I applaud him for that, I applaud him for going with Arron Afflalo over Flip Murray. I appluad him for throwing Stuckey to the wolves (most nights). I applaud him for experimenting with Hermann during the Dallas game. During the offseason everyone was ragging on Saunders saying thta he would NEVER give a rookie substantial minutes but guesss what, he has. Now, Pistons fans just need something to complain about.

Saunders is making strides, nobody can deny that. He still needs work in his rotations in substitution patterns though but overall I think he is gettign better.

IMO- The bench lost the Boton game but the Starters lost the Dallas game. Last night the starters were on fire, each one of them was playing like the game meant something there was no reason for them not to play.

Stuckey apparently reinjured his hand which is why Hunter was activated which has already been stated repeatedly. However, even if Stuckey was 100% ok to play I still would have preferred Hunter to him because Detroit needed a Win. I would have liked to see Hunter play in that Boston game as well because he has proven that he can get it done defensively. I can only imagine the threads on this board if Detroit went with the bench and lost that game last night. Saunders made the right call.

[#1stunna]

I agree with the op about the bench. These games against bos, dal, sa, phx, & so forth are much more important(to develop the bench) than whether the pistons get a W or L. Playing min against teams like the bucks & 4th qtr blowouts is not enough. Saunders is getting far more praise than he should.

I don't blame him for last nights game cuz you could tell the starters wanted to play.

Theres no way were catching BOS unless KG goes down & even if he did homecourt seems like a curse in the east anyways. From my understanding only rip cares about his min. I would let rip get his & let dyess's drop significantly with tay billups & sheed not hitting over 32 (especially against playoff teams). Even mess with the starting rotations a bit with 1 or 2 of stucky, maxiell, & hayes starting here & there. Wish we could see how good herrmann really is.

[Low-Ki]

We needed to win that game in SA or there would have been rioting in the streets. I don't mind the bench use really this season - they're just keeping the starter minutes low and better "rested" for the post-season where every team save maybe Dallas, runs an 7-8 man rotation.

[<3AmirJohnson<3]

Coaching Candidates Next Year

Saunders?
Skiles?
Sloan?
Brown?
Zeke?
Lindsey?
Curry?
Cleaves?

[Liqourish]

Coaching Candidates Next Year

Saunders?
Skiles?
Sloan?
Brown?
Zeke?
Lindsey?
Curry?
Cleaves?

Laimbeer

Laimbeer is the only coaching canidate I know that would keep these egos in check. He's also a man I know our players (Chauncey and Sheed, I'm looking at you) would respect in the LB mode and actually listen to. If they didn't listen, Laimbeer would pull their asses and put them in their place.

[#1stunna]

Coaching Candidates Next Year

Saunders?
Skiles?
Sloan?
Brown?
Zeke?
Lindsey?
Curry?
Cleaves????

Those would be fun to see. Especially zeke. Cleaves? what cleaves are you talking about (mateen )

Maybe laimbeer? Carlise, cowens, idk