Small Forward Question

[stones88]

I, like most Pistons fans, like Prince a lot. Who could forget when Carlisle finally used him in the Orlando series, it was amazing how Prince responded. I think it turned that series around for us. But since then it seems that Prince hasn't been the impact player enough in big games. Granted we did win a championship with him holding down the small forward spot, I still think Dumars could once again put his team over the top with a major trade, by getting Shawn Marion to replace Prince. Now I'm not going to pretend that I know a whole lot about salaries and trade rules or even cap issues, I'll leave that up to the basketball knowledge wizards on this forum. Which brings me to my question(s). Is it possible to bring Marion in for Prince? And if so, does that trade put this team 'over the top' in terms of winning a championship this year? What does everyone think?

[laxation26]

What makes you think Marion would be better than Prince?

[ADM]

*Shakes head* Ballboys.

So, let me get this straight...We need to ship out a proven winner, a veteran, one of the most durable players in the league, a champion whose skills match this team perfectly (good wing defender, good ballhandler, good shooter, doesn't complain about minutes/shots)...

for a guy who puts up stats on a gimmicky, underachieving team, whose skills don't match the team (good defender, but not a ballhandler, and complains about minutes/shots/being "the man") and has never advanced even as far as the Finals?

THAT'S what we need to "put us over the top?" Really? Shawn Marion's a great player, but let's be real. And maybe I'm nuts, but what I think we need to "put us over the top" is a couple of weeks of solid, no-letdown play in May and June. We're AT the top now, all we need to do is play well to get "over" it.

No thanks, I'll keep Tayshaun.

[Hunter]

Well, I'm gonna disagree with ADM and say Marion would be an OUTSTANDING fit and a clear cut upgrade over Prince. I'd love to make that trade.

The problem here within is that Marion plays PF for the Suns, and that is something that Prince can't do. We'd likely have to include Maxiell just to get them to listen, but probably involve a 3rd team. And if past discussions are any indication Phx would want back more that Marion is reasonably worth.

For the record I'd love to turn Prince into a bigger, more physical player such as Marion, Gerald Wallace, Iggy, etc. But any of those would be a tough sell and we'd likely have to overpay to make such a move. Somebody like AK, who's stock isn't as high as it once was, is a more likely candidate, although in his case ADM's argument strikes me as a bit more sound.

[theBigLip]

There are some games where I wish Tay was a bit tougher, but his all around game is as good as anyones, including Marion. COnsidering we have Tay under a reasonable contract, I don't see why we should pay twice as much to get someone that may not even be any better.

On the SF note, I think we should look into giving Childress our MLE in the offseason as Tay's backup.

[Hunter]

There are really 2 areas of concern w/ this team; defensive rebounding and an inability to stop penetration from the SF position.

The first is clearly evident anytime we play a big frontline like Utah. They kill us on the offensive glass. Cleveland did as well in the ECF last year and Boston certainly showed some signs of being able to do it as well. When accounting for pace it's fair to say Marion wouldn't be averaging 12 rpg on this team, but he could certainly grab 9 or 10. It's not like he'd have to compete with Sheed for rebounds.

He'd also be a better defensive matchup against the likes of LeBron & Pierce and he's shown the versatility to be able to defend the likes of both Tim Duncan AND Tony Parker. He's not a lock down defender in the Ron Artest or Bruce Bowen mold, but he's very malleable. And if you don't think he'd fit into Flips offense with his ability to sit in the corner and jack 3's you are kidding yourself.

[Drwho17]

Tayshaun Prince is too incosistent. Personally I think he is extemely over valued, and would be good to move out. When Tayshaun is good, the Pistons are great, when he's not they aren't so good. Billups/Hamilton are pretty consistent, McDyess is fairly consistent, Rasheed is mostly consistent with the occasional very bad game, but Prince is up and down like a yoyo. The Pistons recent rough stretch, I think can be blamed on him more then anyone.

[Snakebites]

Ill agree with Hunter on this one.

Marion is a clear cut upgrade in most aspects over Tay. If we could make that trade, we'd have done it a long time ago.

Grant Hill isnt a long term solution for Phoenix at small forward, and I could see Tay fitting into their style of play, but trading Marion for him would leave them thin at power forward, and would be a downgrade talentwise. We'd need to sweeten the pot, which we might have the chips to do, but it seems highly unrealistic.

But anyone giving reasons why Marion WOULDNT be a great fit here is kidding themselves. He's a great defender and has a balanced offensive game, and he'd give us a little more toughness.

The Suns overvalue Marion considerably. They wanted Sheed, Tay, and both of our first rounders for him before. Doubt theyd settle for Tay and Maxiell (or anything close to it) at this point.

[Low-Ki]

Shawn Marion is way better than Prince, in virtually every aspect. The only problem I would see with bringing in Marion would be that he's not going to defer every friggin shot to Rip, and Rip is a rhythm shooter and needs to take a lot of shots to be effective.

[Dirtgrain]

Not too long ago, people were freaking out about needing a LeBron stopper. Marion is the answer? I haven't seen him play that much. How is his handle? Can he play point-forward? Can be the dribbler on a pick and role? I thought he was a power forward. I thought his game was more like Dice's.

Still, Marion puts up good numbers--good playoff numbers, as well. But for this year, with the playoffs in mind, I'm not sure it would be a good idea. Does our team need such a shake up? Will we see flat Pistons when the playoffs start? I don't know. So, I wouldn't be pissed if the trade were made. I just would have no clue how it would affect the team.

[HeroicKennedy]

Marion is nearly 30. For as much as we're clamoring for youth, why would we want to trade our youngest starter?

Yes, Marion is a significant upgrade from Tayshaun. But is he worth what Phoenix is asking for? Oh God, no.

[#1stunna]

I know I'm going to get a lot of smack for suggesting this, but I think our biggest hurdle will be containing bron, pierce, then whatever sf that comes out of the west(outside of sa, he'll prob be good offensively also).

Without a prime bigben in the middle prince has problems with quick sf & he just isnt strong enough to handle the big guys like lebron. So I ask myself who could handle LBJ, Pierce, etc... 1on1 that has low value???

the detroit legend....

[/img]http://www.b12partners.net/mt/images/Ron_Artest.jpeg[img]
[/img]http://www.bball.cz/upload/images/ron_fight.jpg[img]


I know it will never happen, but if it did, outside of SA we would be the clear cut favorites(if artest stays sane). It would be like when Chris Chelios became a redwing. He was probably the most hated hockey player outside of claude lemue(sp?) but right when he put on that red&white jersey & made a big check he became a likeable guy.[/img]

[Hunter]

Even IF we were to ignore the whole brawl thing I wouldn't want Artest on this team.

He may very well be the player most well suited to stopping LeBron & Pierce. Dude is a phenomenal defensive talent. But I watched him ruin 3 consecutive Pacer seasons - the guy is just to big of a head case. Chelios might have been hated, but he was never as destructive to his team as Artest has been, and (correct me if I'm wrong on this one) I don't remember Chely ever beating his wife or abusing animals.

Artest is also a bit of a black hole offensively - I'd seriously question how he'd fit in here. I think he'd be a major disruption both on the court, in the lockeroom and certainly in the press. There is a greater chance of me playing SF for the Pistons than Artest.

Personally I'd be happy if we just made a minor move for Najera. Package Hermann, Hayes and some of those 2nd rounders we have laying around and get the dude.

[srt4b]

To sum it up:

Marion=yes
Artest=hell no

[roc]

To sum it up:

Crash=Oh Hellz yeah!
Marion=MMMmaybe
Artest=hell no

Sorry couldn't help myself, Wallace is my favorite player.

[Hunter]

^And probably about as likely as Artest to land in Detroit.

[ADM]

Marion is the better player but Tayshaun is the better fit for the team. I really think people underestimate the fact that Marion wants to be "the man" on whatever team he's on. He's been grumbling in Phoenix for years. If you read Jack McCallum's book "7 Seconds or Less," you'll find that the whole team had a lot of frustration with Marion's inconsistent effort and his attitude.

Call me crazy, but I'll stick with the guy who we KNOW will be on the floor every night and won't complain when he doesn't get enough touches.

[nasty daddy]

Phoenix would be asking for several players and draft picks for Marion.

[theBigLip]

Unless we can get Durant, Deng, Josh Smith or Marvin Williams (all of whom we would get younger with) I don't see a huge benefit on moving Tay.

[Snakebites]

^Well, we arent getting one of those.