Flip Saunders gets a lot of flack for his use of the bench (or lack therof), but Im wondering how much of it is Flips fault and how much responsibility (if any) should fall on Dumars.
During the offseason, Dumars said repeatedly that Amir Johnson was already to be penciled into the 9 man rotation he specifically said that DNPs were a thing of the past for Johnson. Unfortunately all Johnson has raked up are DNPs. Does the blame for that fall squarly on Saunders?
Compare Amir Johnsons situation with that of Rodney Stuckeys. After missing 25 games with a hand injury, Stuckey is being thrown right into the game and continuing to play despite at times looking terribly lost on the court. Now, Joe Dumars sat down with Saunders and told him to shorten the rotation in order to further facilitate Stuckeys development despite the fact that it may stunt Afflalo (who is looking more than solid).
Depending on how you look at it, Dumars seems to have essentially forced Saunders hand to shorten the rotation down to 8 (The starters + Max, Stuck and Hayes) until Stuckey becomes fully acclimated as the backup guard. Since Dumars was able to impose his will on Saunders why then is he not doing the same for Johnson?
Is developing Stuckey that much more of a priority than following through with Afflalo, Johnson and seeing what Hermann could bring to the table?
Dumars and the Rotation
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Dumars and the Rotation
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princeofpalace
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princeofpalace
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Liqourish wrote:Where did you hear that Duamrs sat Saunders down and forced him to shorten the rotation to 8?
That would go against everything Dumars said all offseason about wanting to go 10-12 deep every night and getting players acclimated to the system for the playoffs.
Flip Saunders post game interview after the Toronto game
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#1stunna
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Who's saunders boss?
I know joeD doesn't like to get inbetween a coaches philosophy or whatever but if he wanted amir, aaron, herrman whoever to get real playing time they'd be getting it. Thats the bottom line.
It was mostly a pr move in the offseason to hype up these rooks (especially the next superstar johnson). Joe played his part in it also. Amir isnt going to get real playing time this season. I bet if there was a major injury webber would be signed before amir took the open min.
I know joeD doesn't like to get inbetween a coaches philosophy or whatever but if he wanted amir, aaron, herrman whoever to get real playing time they'd be getting it. Thats the bottom line.
It was mostly a pr move in the offseason to hype up these rooks (especially the next superstar johnson). Joe played his part in it also. Amir isnt going to get real playing time this season. I bet if there was a major injury webber would be signed before amir took the open min.
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Champs04bigshot
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I believe that an eight ma rotation is the right way to go. The bench is producing and if you throw in nine or ten man rotations it takes away from our top three bench from meshing with the other starters.
As for Stuckey and Afflalo why are people so high on him he cannot create offensivly, he cannot shoot all that well and is limited to one position. You might say his defense but Stuckey is averaging over two steals a game and creates havoc on opposing gaurds with his energy. Stuckey is by far a better player than Afflalo. Stuckeys hustle, offense and d are all better than Afflalo.
Stuckey is a wild card he can change the game with his passing ability and change of pace off the bench. I dont understand why people want to take Stuckey the future of our backcourt ad stunt his growth for a player that will not be the future or game changer this year in the playoffs. Stuckey is a bigger concern and more of a producer for this years goals then Amir. They are both vital down the road but Stuckey will help us win a championship in a big way THIS year.
As for Stuckey and Afflalo why are people so high on him he cannot create offensivly, he cannot shoot all that well and is limited to one position. You might say his defense but Stuckey is averaging over two steals a game and creates havoc on opposing gaurds with his energy. Stuckey is by far a better player than Afflalo. Stuckeys hustle, offense and d are all better than Afflalo.
Stuckey is a wild card he can change the game with his passing ability and change of pace off the bench. I dont understand why people want to take Stuckey the future of our backcourt ad stunt his growth for a player that will not be the future or game changer this year in the playoffs. Stuckey is a bigger concern and more of a producer for this years goals then Amir. They are both vital down the road but Stuckey will help us win a championship in a big way THIS year.
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BDM22
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Stuckey is much more important to develop early on. We are desperate for a backup PG. Lindsey/Flip have never been able to get it done for more than a couple games per month. Unfortunately for Amir (fortunate for us), Maxiell has stepped up as the obvious 3rd big, and McDyess has had a better year than expected. So, the need isn't really there for another big as much as it is for a backup guard.
That said, there is absolutely no reason for Amir to not get into every single game for at least 5 minutes. Max has admitted to being tired, and playing Dice 30+ per game is asking for trouble. Not to mention the Brezec/Nazr/Herrmann issue (all of them are ahead of Amir in the rotation).
IMO, Flip just doesn't like Amir or the way he plays. Until Flip is gone, Amir isn't going to have much success here.
That said, there is absolutely no reason for Amir to not get into every single game for at least 5 minutes. Max has admitted to being tired, and playing Dice 30+ per game is asking for trouble. Not to mention the Brezec/Nazr/Herrmann issue (all of them are ahead of Amir in the rotation).
IMO, Flip just doesn't like Amir or the way he plays. Until Flip is gone, Amir isn't going to have much success here.
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Grey
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princeofpalace wrote:Flip Saunders post game interview after the Toronto game
He said he would shorten it, but didn't specifically say "8". He was just talking about the plan to get Stucky more playing time.
Here's the comment:
http://www.madrabbit.net/temp/pistons/flip.mp3
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princeofpalace
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Yeah, I remember 8 specifically.
In any case, I just dont quite understand why Saunders is getting all of the blame for the rotation when clearly Dumars has a say in it.
In addition to the fact that Amir Johnson has yet to play any significant minutes when all offseason long he was talking about the importance of Johnson to the team this season. Its not all on Flip Saunders, maybe Saunders doesnt like Johnson that much but Joe has a say in it too, if he really wanted Johnson to play he'd be playing.
I do think its interesting that Dumars told Saunders to play Stuckey maybe he learned something from the Darko situation.
In any case, I just dont quite understand why Saunders is getting all of the blame for the rotation when clearly Dumars has a say in it.
In addition to the fact that Amir Johnson has yet to play any significant minutes when all offseason long he was talking about the importance of Johnson to the team this season. Its not all on Flip Saunders, maybe Saunders doesnt like Johnson that much but Joe has a say in it too, if he really wanted Johnson to play he'd be playing.
I do think its interesting that Dumars told Saunders to play Stuckey maybe he learned something from the Darko situation.