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Posted: **Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:53 am**

What can it hurt? Whether you think we have long term concerns or not there is no question that at the moment we are playing poorly. Why not tweak the lineup and try to breath some life into these guys? See if Maxiell can bring a bit of energy to the starting lineup, maybe help get him back on track. He's always done relatively well in that role when we've asked him to do it.

And perhaps Dice can help stabilize that 2nd unit and bring a bit more consistent scoring to it. Get him and Stuckey involved in a few more pick and rolls (a play that used to work beautifully with Dice & Arroyo).

Try it for 2-3 games and see what happens. :dontknow:

Posted: **Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:59 am**

I wouldnt be against it. The only concern i would have is that Maxiell brings energy and hustle to the second unit. The bench in my opinion should be a change of pace with Stuckey pushing the ball Maxiell hustling for boards and hayes hitting threes if we bring dice to the bench that would take away from a uptempo second unit. It would create a one dimensional offense. I believe Maxiells bench role is to bring a fast paced style and push it up the court. It could be a nice change every once in a while but when it comes down to it he is a better sixth man than dice would be.

Posted: **Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:00 am**

Flip already tried this out at the start of the season for several games, Maxiell's numbers are better with him coming off the bench, where he is more productive.

Posted: **Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:06 am**

nasty daddy wrote:Flip already tried this out at the start of the season for several games, Maxiell's numbers are better with him coming off the bench, where he is more productive.

Lies.

As for the change of pace thing, Flip tries to use both units the same way.

Posted: **Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:32 am**

Why not? Dyess is good, but playing him 18 minutes EVERY game before half time is ludacris.

Posted: **Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:38 am**

Maxiell is a very flawed player. I like his energy, but he is too short to really post any bigs, he tries to recklessly dunk far too often, and misses too many FTs. The Pistons definitely need a 4th big man that can score somewhat in the post and play smart. Perhaps CWebb is needed. Time to get rid of Murray or Brezec.

Posted: **Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:46 am**

Roscoe Sheed wrote:Maxiell is a very flawed player. I like his energy, but he is too short to really post any bigs, he tries to recklessly dunk far too often, and misses too many FTs. The Pistons definitely need a 4th big man that can score somewhat in the post and play smart. Perhaps CWebb is needed. Time to get rid of Murray or Brezec.

Jason is a double double guy that just needs some polishing. Posting bigs is overrated, especially with our coach. Flip aint going to dump it into the paint anyway, might as well add more chukkers.

Posted: **Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:31 am**

Hunter wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Lies.

As for the change of pace thing, Flip tries to use both units the same way.

Which part that he never started at the start of the season, or his numbers are down once he started, or the fact that he is more productive coming off the bench in games?

Posted: **Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:00 pm**

nasty daddy wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Which part that he never started at the start of the season, or his numbers are down once he started, or the fact that he is more productive coming off the bench in games?

He started him as a result of injuries or sheed being bad, and not becuase He wanted to see how Mcdyess would do off the bench. Yeah... I am all for this move, and maybe we should see some Amir in there too.

Posted: **Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:04 pm**

Jason Maxiel has already admitted to having dead legs and being tired because of his pt 25mins being the most he's ever played. I dont think starting him and giving him more PT is the answer to his problems. In addition, Maxi is much much better off the bench he gets called for fouls too easily as a starter.

Posted: **Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:56 pm**

Maybe next season we could experiment with this, but we're in a transition phase right now with Stuckey and Max developing still. I just don't think Max is ready for that, he could hit a wall this season with the increased minutes, and he's still very mistake/foul prone when he starts. Teams like to go at him right away, especially the guys like KG, Duncan, Dirk, Randolph, Gasol... etc. I don't like his ability at this point of checking guys like that.

Next year, I call for Max to be the full time starter.

Posted: **Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:04 pm**

Roscoe Sheed wrote:Maxiell is a very flawed player. I like his energy, but he is too short to really post any bigs, he tries to recklessly dunk far too often, and misses too many FTs

He is flawed, but Max shoots a better percentage on his FTs than McDyess. The difference is Max shoots so many, you notice the misses more often. This is a good thing. He has taken 161 FTs this year. McDyess and Sheed combined have taken 156.

IMO, Max needs a little bit of rest right now. He mentioned the fact that he feels a lot different physically than he did about a month ago. Saying his legs felt "Heavy". Maybe give him the week before the all-star break off, so he can get a solid 2 weeks of rest, to get his 2nd wind. It's almost like he has hit his rookie wall (not used to these minutes).

I still believe that starting Afflalo over Rip is the way to go. AA works much better with the starters where he has no pressure to score. Plus, like Max, he makes those hustle plays that get the starters amped up to follow suit. This also gives the bench some continuity, with Rip being on the floor with them the entire time they're in the game.

Posted: **Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:08 pm**

Master Shake wrote:Teams like to go at him right away, especially the guys like KG, Duncan, Dirk, Randolph, Gasol... etc. I don't like his ability at this point of checking guys like that.

Don't we also have Sheed, or did I miss something? Why wouldn't he be guarding those guys? Sheed is at his best on-the-ball, and Max is at his best off-the-ball. The problem I see with the Sheed/Dice frontcourt is that they're both on-the-ball defenders. Neither have the quickness or hops (or desire) to be consistent threats defensively around the rim. This is one reason I'd like to see Amir. He's the best on the team in that regard.

Posted: **Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:13 pm**

BDM22 wrote:I still believe that starting Afflalo over Rip is the way to go. AA works much better with the starters where he has no pressure to score. Plus, like Max, he makes those hustle plays that get the starters amped up to follow suit. This also gives the bench some continuity, with Rip being on the floor with them the entire time they're in the game.

I agree with that, but Flip would never go for it. Somehow swapping Dice & Maxiell seems more plausible.

But you guys make some good points about Max needing a rest. I'm just looking for something to sorta jump start us a little.

Posted: **Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:15 pm**

BDM22 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
I still believe that starting Afflalo over Rip is the way to go. AA works much better with the starters where he has no pressure to score. Plus, like Max, he makes those hustle plays that get the starters amped up to follow suit. This also gives the bench some continuity, with Rip being on the floor with them the entire time they're in the game.

Starting Afflalo over Rip would be the dumbest thing to do. You want more playing time for Afflalo because you think he is so good last night in over ten minutes of action his only stat was one rebound, and you are this high on him. Rip is shooting about 50 percent from the floor 45 percent from the threes and has shown improved passing ability. Afflalo does nothing. You guys sit here and complain about Stuckey and the lack of production if the people around the team everyday and the coaching staff itself is going to come out and say they are shortening the bench for Stuckey to play they know alot more than we all do about how good both players are. But to say Afflalo should start he does nothing. Stuckey is much better just trying to get used to the game he missed 25 games if he never broke his hand Afflalo wouldnt get off the bench we saw that in preseason and summer league let Stuckey heal first. Afflalo shouldnt get good minutes ever let alone start.

Posted: **Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:27 pm**

Champs04bigshot wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Starting Afflalo over Rip would be the dumbest thing to do. You want more playing time for Afflalo because you think he is so good last night in over ten minutes of action his only stat was one rebound, and you are this high on him. Rip is shooting about 50 percent from the floor 45 percent from the threes and has shown improved passing ability. Afflalo does nothing. You guys sit here and complain about Stuckey and the lack of production if the people around the team everyday and the coaching staff itself is going to come out and say they are shortening the bench for Stuckey to play they know alot more than we all do about how good both players are. But to say Afflalo should start he does nothing. Stuckey is much better just trying to get used to the game he missed 25 games if he never broke his hand Afflalo wouldnt get off the bench we saw that in preseason and summer league let Stuckey heal first. Afflalo shouldnt get good minutes ever let alone start.

If all you can come up with is a "stats" argument with Afflalo, you've already missed the point completely.

But this is exactly why Flip will never go for it. He doesn't have the mental capacity to understand it's not about a demotion to Rip. It's about balancing out the lineups. Giving the starters a defensive/hustle spark so that the starting lineup isn't all layed-back offense-minded players. Giving the bench a legit, consistent, go-to scorer. It doesn't mean AA will play more than 10 minutes or so, or Rip play less than his usual 35. It's simply about finding the right mix of players.

Posted: **Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:44 pm**

BDM22 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
But this is exactly why Flip will never go for it. He doesn't have the mental capacity to understand it's not about a demotion to Rip. It's about balancing out the lineups. Giving the starters a defensive/hustle spark so that the starting lineup isn't all layed-back offense-minded players. Giving the bench a legit, consistent, go-to scorer. It doesn't mean AA will play more than 10 minutes or so, or Rip play less than his usual 35. It's simply about finding the right mix of players.

I understand its not demoting Rip but if you look at the lineups our first team would become stagnant. Rip is who starts our offense and is essentially are go to scorer when hes on the floor until Billups takes over late. If you put Afflalo out there it forces Sheed to not be able to take plays off (which we all know sheed will never come focused to score every night) Also it would make Tayshaun have to score and we all know he has struggled. It would absolutely kill our offense for the first team.

I am still wondering what Afflalo has shown he has not come in a locked down a scorer all season yet people here think he is the second coming of bruce bowen. To me its crazy. Like i said earlier in the preseason Stuckey was by far a much much better player than Afflalo and he plays 15 games most of which with a brace on his hand and now Afflalo is our prized rookie its crazy.

Posted: **Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:47 pm**

Yeah let's bring our only consistent scorer off the bench. Let's rely on Tay and Sheed to show up the first 10 minutes of the game. That's a recipe for success. Morons.

Posted: **Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:10 am**

Chuck Nevicic wrote:Yeah let's bring our only consistent scorer off the bench. Let's rely on Tay and Sheed to show up the first 10 minutes of the game. That's a recipe for success. Morons.

Disagree if you want, but calling us morons is childish and petty.

Posted: **Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:19 am**

I become childish and petty when I'm responding to something so **** stupid.

Cool it. Address the post, not the poster.
Manocad

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