The Cockiness.....

[Bamboozled]

What do you Detroit fans think about the team chemistry this year? The last few years, Pistons players (especially Rasheed and Billups) carried themselves with a supreme sense of entitlement, even after playoff losses to the Spurs in 2005, and Cleveland in 2007.

I understand that cockiness/confidence is incredibly important for a contender, but I think it can also distort reality. The 2006-2007 Pistons had flaws (not meaning to offend, but if they wern't flawed, logic suggests them winning the championship), but even in the off-season, Detroit appeared to be unwilling to admit it.

The 2007-2008 Pistons roster appears to be a departure from previos years, as your young guys are getting more playing time. Do you see the same sense of entitlement that eminated from the last few Pistons teams, or do you see this team emphasizing a different philosophy?

[jab]

Ooooo


A Cleveland Fan trolling for a response from us on what's the mood of our team.


Let's see if this tread is locked quickly (not likely) or if you can find someone to entertain you on our board


We wouldn't dare go over to your board and ask how it feels to have the Flopper and Sasha out at the same time because it wouldn't be right.

My reality may be distorted but if your GM doesn't make a move before the trade deadline Cleveland fans may 'witness' the playoffs on TV.

What do you think Mr Bamboozled


edited to assure Mods and the OP I snatched the bait away never to return to this thread.

[Bamboozled]

One of the reasons I posted this on the Detroit board is because a Pistons fan came over and did the whole flaming "we're kicking your ass in the playoffs/you guys flop and suck and blahblah" on the Cleveland board. You can check it. A Detroit fan did dare.

I think Detroit clearly has an argument that they're the best team in the east, as evidenced by their record, and the fact that Boston hasn't done anything of substance yet. I personally think Lebron has improved more than Detroit has, but either way, it'll be an exciting series. Keep in mind that there were a bunch of really exciting games in last year's series.

I also decided to post this question on the Detroit page because Detroit fans are clearly more knowledgeable on the Pistons than I am. I'm not looking to flame this board just to get a rise though. But I can't see how Pistons fans didn't take notice to Billups and Rasheed commenting how Cleveland isn't any good, even though they had just closed out the Pistons.

.

[chrbal]

Teams been humbled...blah, blah, blah.

The real question is what the heck is going on Cleveland. Were the 2 holdouts that much of a distraction? Is Marshall that important? Why does Hughes still start? And why don't either Brown start in his place?
With Varejao hurt, who steps up? Simmons? Dwayne Jones?

Good luck with the "runner up hangover".

Not even trying to talk trash, Cleveland is just that messed up this season. Should be Called "Timberwolves II". At least you guys made the finals.

[Master Shake]

I really didn't think that was bad, seems like its decently legit.

Seriously though, the attitude is still there, its just less aparent than in years past. With guys like Maxiell, Afflalo, Hayes, McDyess, and even now Stuckey, Amir, Brezec, and Hermann, none of whom have really done anything on the big stage, except McDyess and he's still ringless, getting big minutes there seems to be a little more drive and hustle. But really the 4 players who matter, have the same attitude, and thats bad.

I just pray they still feel their underappreciated come playoff time and Flip Saunders figures out how to adjust. Otherwise Cleveland, Orlando, or Boston could all beat us.

Especially Cleveland, Lebron just loves to play the Pistons. Thats a team where we feel we're clearly better than and they take it to us everytime we play.

[Snakebites]

One of the reasons I posted this on the Detroit board is because a Pistons fan came over and did the whole flaming "we're kicking your ass in the playoffs/you guys flop and suck and blahblah" on the Cleveland board. You can check it. A Detroit fan did dare.

Great, one of our ballboys goes on their board trying to stir the pot, was roundly bashed by fans assuring themselves that they will not only beat us in the playoffs, but will have homecourt advantage while doing it, now we get one of there's, trying to do the same thing. Sounds fair, except to just about anyone.

Good to see the spirit of maturity and civility is still alive and well.

[Bamboozled]

I think the holdout affected Pavlovic more than Varejao, as Pavlovic has major confidence issues to go along with him not being that good in the first place. He still has the size to play good defense though, and looked much bigger than Kobe in the first Cavs-Lakers duel.

Marshall is at best a Robert Horry-type role player. But Pistons fans witnessed first hand in Game 1 of last years ECF that Marshall can't be counted on to make a clutch shot.

As for Varejao being hurt, I can only hope it's not a season-affecting thing. He's way more important to the Cavs than Drew Gooden, and if he's not in the playoffs, Rasheed and/or Garnett will absolutely torch the Cavs. Cedric Simmons is still basically a rookie, and Dwayne Jones only gets PT because he hustles.

But most of that could be negated if Lebron steps up again in the playoffs. I've watched him play since he was a rookie. And the leap he's made from last year has been as big of an off-season leap as the one he made from year 1 to year 2. He's playing better D and taking smarter shots. I think he may have benefited as much as anyone from that Team USA stint over the summer. Not intentionally trying to be biased; the guy just keeps defying my expectations.

[Master Shake]

Exactly... I don't want to play Lebron in the playoffs.

[nasty daddy]

How long before Lebron burns out, especially with no supporting cast.

Lock this thread.

[#1stunna]

billups, billups, & billups. Thats the only player I worry about.

You can tell sheeds sick of losing. Mcdyess, maxiell, & rip will always give it there all & tays a go with the flow kind of cat.

Our post season success heavily relies on billups mindset & nobody knows that but himself.

[Bamboozled]

The 2 things I'll always remember about Billups are 1. his amazing ability to get to the free throw line whenever he wants, and 2. how he torched the Spurs in game 7 of the 2005 finals. It took possibly the best on-ball defender of the last 5 years (Bowen) just to contain him at all. Gamer.

[m23uza1hem36]

One of the reasons I posted this on the Detroit board is because a Pistons fan came over and did the whole flaming "we're kicking your ass in the playoffs/you guys flop and suck and blahblah" on the Cleveland board. You can check it. A Detroit fan did dare.

I think Detroit clearly has an argument that they're the best team in the east, as evidenced by their record, and the fact that Boston hasn't done anything of substance yet. I personally think Lebron has improved more than Detroit has, but either way, it'll be an exciting series. Keep in mind that there were a bunch of really exciting games in last year's series.

I also decided to post this question on the Detroit page because Detroit fans are clearly more knowledgeable on the Pistons than I am. I'm not looking to flame this board just to get a rise though. But I can't see how Pistons fans didn't take notice to Billups and Rasheed commenting how Cleveland isn't any good, even though they had just closed out the Pistons.

.

I did NOT say that, I simple stated trade options that won't happen for you guys, oh by the way, your "Mod" started the argument by saying that may
be true and said Lebron has figured out our defense, how do you figure out a defense? It's a 5 Vs 5 game not a 1 Vs 5.

[chrbal]

How long before Lebron burns out, especially with no supporting cast.

Lock this thread.

Why lock it? its not that bad.

[prophet_of_rage]

-= original quote snipped =-



I did NOT say that, I simple stated trade options that won't happen for you guys, oh by the way, your "Mod" started the argument by saying that may
be true and said Lebron has figured out our defense, how do you figure out a defense? It's a 5 Vs 5 game not a 1 Vs 5.

You figure out where the help and the rotations come from. For instance if you get past Prince who rotates to you. Is it it one two or three guys? Are they posts or wings who drop down to help?

Are they denying you the pass which means you have backdoor alleys to the hoop or are they doubling you on the catch?

If you catch in the post where is the help coming from if help is coming and does it come on the catch, the first dribble or the second dribble.

There's lots to figure out about a defence.

[ajaX82]

Im not going to lock this quite yet. He has yet to insult or say anything offensive towards us. If the topic can be discussed decently, there is no problem. But discretion is the word here, and if more want it locked i will do that.

[hoophabit]

The Pistons remain confident, but no question the loss to the Cavs affected the team, but this applies mostly to management which realized that a big weakness was guard depth. The Pistons aren't really good at keeping opposing players in front of them and allow too much penetration. I'm not sure they've really solved that problem as yet, although Afflalo appears to help. I'm not sure it's fair to say "entitlement" so much as an attitude of confidence that comes from a long body of successful work. The Cavs played very good defense, but you have to admit the Pistons cooperated by missing an inordinate number of open shots as well.

I agree that LeBron is playing better than ever and the Cavs will be no picnic for any team. Every team has their weaknesses. Frankly, if LeBron were to twist his ankle at the wrong time the Cav are done.

I didn't find your initial post incendiary, and thought you deserved a civil response. We fans sometimes have a hard time keeping in mind that, where we're concerned, this all just for fun anyway.

[theBigLip]

I'm glad this has turned into a legit discussion - no need to lock.

Cleveland looked very good against the Lakers on Sunday, which was one of the reasons I started the thread about getting the #1 seed - I'd much rather have the Celtics and the Cavs play each other first, so the #1 seed is important.

That being said, the Cavs front office is pathetic. How can you have the best (or one of the best) players in the game and not surround him with quality players. Ferry totally overspent on marginal players and has painted himself into a corner. LeBron needs help if he wants to win it all.

As for the Pistons attitude, it is okay now considering we are only midseason. Come playoff time, we need Billups to shut up and put up. If that happens, we could win another Championship.

We do need to come up with a better strategy against LBJ. This is where I miss Ben. Dice and Sheed are going to have to come up strong and help out Prince. We also need to work hard in the backcourt and try to keep the ball out of his hands in the first place and to use up a lot of the playclock. Flip may be an offensive genius but if he can't figure out how to stop LBJ, we ain't going anywhere.

[Snakebites]

-= original quote snipped =-



You figure out where the help and the rotations come from. For instance if you get past Prince who rotates to you. Is it it one two or three guys? Are they posts or wings who drop down to help?

Are they denying you the pass which means you have backdoor alleys to the hoop or are they doubling you on the catch?

If you catch in the post where is the help coming from if help is coming and does it come on the catch, the first dribble or the second dribble.

There's lots to figure out about a defence.

Made easier if you have a coach who doesnt make adjustments and keeps the defensive approach static. A better defensive mind would make adjustements after Lebron adjusted to us.

I dont really think the Cavs have a better team than us (though thats a pretty vague statement in and of itself) but they definetely appear to have our number at the moment. Its got less to do with effort and "cockiness" and more to do with matchup issues and a failure on our part to adjust.

[Roscoe Sheed]

If the Pistons play the Cavs in the playoffs, I'd put Rip on him most of the time. He is quicker than Tay. The problems LeBron presents to the Pistons are mostly when he dribble penetrates. Rip stands a much better chance of keeping him in front. Hunter also could be used in a pinch once in a while as well.

[Roscoe Sheed]

-= original quote snipped =-



Made easier if you have a coach who doesnt make adjustments and keeps the defensive approach static. A better defensive mind would make adjustements after Lebron adjusted to us.

I dont really think the Cavs have a better team than us (though thats a pretty vague statement in and of itself) but they definetely appear to have our number at the moment. Its got less to do with effort and "cockiness" and more to do with matchup issues and a failure on our part to adjust.

I agree. Chauncey was thrown way out of whack by the traps, Sheed went AWOL once in a while in games 3-6, and the defensive schemes against LeBron were terribly stubborn- way too few adjustments