RealGM

Word out of EsPN is that Smith has informed the Hawks that he does not want to re-sign with them while Woodson is still the coach there....

I would gladly offer McDyess and either Maxiell or Amir for Smith....maybe throw in the 2nd rounder from Minnesota if need be.

Billups / Stuckey
Hamilton / Afflalo
Prince / Sharpe
Smith
Sheed / Samb

is this something new or based off the SI report?

Piston Pete wrote:Word out of EsPN is that Smith has informed the Hawks that he does not want to re-sign with them while Woodson is still the coach there....

I would gladly offer McDyess and either Maxiell or Amir for Smith....maybe throw in the 2nd rounder from Minnesota if need be.

Billups / Stuckey
Hamilton / Afflalo
Prince / Sharpe
Smith
Sheed / Samb

If that deal could get it done it'd have already happened and we'd be building the Church of Dumars for all of us to worship at.

Then again stranger things have happened....

A lot of teams would give a lot more than Dice or Maxiell for Smith...

Probably a lot of teams would be willing to pay him more in a sign and trade also.

Plus, to make it work capwise, we'd almost certainly have to take back SMith's new contract + $10 million or more...

He's going to be BYC...

That means a Billups/Bibby swap or taking on CLaxton's bad contract.

Explain BYC.
Is there any way to avoid giving him BYC status?

I'd have said Tay and Amir for Josh Smith, but BYC kills that possibility.

bstein14 wrote:A lot of teams would give a lot more than Dice or Maxiell for Smith...

Probably a lot of teams would be willing to pay him more in a sign and trade also.

Plus, to make it work capwise, we'd almost certainly have to take back SMith's new contract + $10 million or more...

He's going to be BYC...

That means a Billups/Bibby swap or taking on CLaxton's bad contract.

I was thinking Dice AND Maxiell

or

Dice AND Amir

for Smith....

Here's a few examples...

Assuming Smith agrees to a sign and trade for this contract...

08-09: $10 mil
09-10: $11
10-11: $12
11-12: $13
12-13: $14
13-14: $15
Total 6 years $75 million...

His contract would only count half ($5 mil) for salary coming back.

So Bibby($15 Million) + Smith ($5 million) the Hawks could take back 125% of $20 mil which is $25 million.

Billups + Prince for Smith + Bibby would work...

Smith ($5) + Speedy ($5.8) + Zaza ($4) = $14.8 million... Hawks could take back $18.5... Pistons must give at least $15.9 million...

So Dice + Billup or Dice + Prince or Sheed + Amir or Sheed + Max + AA would all work...

Of course picks can be added too without affecting the #'s

GJense4181 wrote:Explain BYC.
Is there any way to avoid giving him BYC status?

You need to either use his previous years salary (about $3.2 mil) or 50% of his current salary in a trade. Even if he signs a contract starting at $10 mil that means the Hawks can only take back $5 mil (well 125%, +100k of $5 mil to be precise, so like $6.35 mil). There isn't really any way around it.

The most common solution is to involve a 3rd team far enough below the cap the absorb the difference in exchange for something like a 2nd round pick.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#73

If he starts at $12 mil per then the Hawks can take back about $7.6 mil.

Starting at $15 mil they could take back about $9.5 mil.

But keep in mind WE still count the full value of his contract, so we'd have to be able to absorb that $10, $12 or $15 mil.

Interesting.....assuming Smith would sign a deal similar to that, and his trade value dollar-wise would be around $5 million, I bet we could peak their interest with a package consisting of:

Maxiell AND Amir

for Smith...


Billups / Stuckey
Rip / Afflalo
Prince / Sharpe
Smith / Dice
Sheed / Samb

Piston Pete wrote:Interesting.....assuming Smith would sign a deal similar to that, and his trade value dollar-wise would be around $5 million, I bet we could peak their interest with a package consisting of:

Maxiell AND Amir

for Smith...


Billups / Stuckey
Rip / Afflalo
Prince / Sharpe
Smith / Dice
Sheed / Samb

But it goes both ways...

Detroit would have to give up $8.0 million to take back a $10 mil Smith contract.

Atlanta could only take back $5.0 * 125% + $100k which is $6.35...

So a trade only involving Smith from Atlanta doesn't work. We'd have to give up at least $8.0 million and they'd only be able to take back $6.35 million

I'd LOVE to land Josh Smith, for just about anything we've got.

It won't work, though.

Smart money is on him accepting the qualifying offer.

Piston Pete wrote:Interesting.....assuming Smith would sign a deal similar to that, and his trade value dollar-wise would be around $5 million, I bet we could peak their interest with a package consisting of:

Maxiell AND Amir

for Smith...

If Atlanta would let go of Smoove for that and he would sign a 5 year 45-50 mil deal. I'd sweeten it up and give Atlanta Max/Amir/'09 1st/Minny 2nd/Both Toronto 2nds for Smoove.

It all depends on how enamored Sund is with Amir, because I believe Atlanta could get more.

I'm not even sure who has cap room still. I think GS still has a lil room left and then Memphis. You'd probably have to get one of them to take back about $3-4 mil. You could try and blow the deal up large enough it can be executed with just 2 teams, but that can actually be more difficult. Especially because that means one team is taking back more salary than they are giving, and in todays Tax intensive climate nobody really wants to do that.

Hunter wrote:I'm not even sure who has cap room still. I think GS still has a lil room left and then Memphis. You'd probably have to get one of them to take back about $3-4 mil. You could try and blow the deal up large enough it can be executed with just 2 teams, but that can actually be more difficult. Especially because that means one team is taking back more salary than they are giving, and in todays Tax intensive climate nobody really wants to do that.

Billups + Sheed for Smith/Bibby would work and be almost even...

Billups + Prince + Amir for Smith/Bibby/Future picks would also be close to even and work...

Memphis is under the cap, and could simply take Amir for nothing( a future first going to Atlanta) but then we'd still have to give Atlanta $5-$6 million in salary... We don't have the small contracts to make that work.

Atlanta isn't going to take Dice a few future picks.

Don't under-estimate the significance of $2-3 mil difference. Remember - that is like $4-6 mil with the tax and Mr D. is still our owner.

Anyway, I'm thinking JSmooth will probably start around $12 mil, even if that is overpaying. If you could start him at $10 mil I'd actually be pretty happy with that.

Also, still don't think you can trade Sheed unless you get a C back in return, and Tay doesn't do much for ATL unless they think Marvin can move to the 4 (and I'm not sold on that). It's not just a question of value, but also one of fit. Chauncey, Dice & Amir (or Maxiell) plus picks for Bibby & Smith makes the most sense to me...but the numbers still don't work. Well, without busting out my calculator they probably do work but then Detroit is paying like an extra $10 mil in tax.

Hunter wrote:Don't under-estimate the significance of $2-3 mil difference. Remember - that is like $4-6 mil with the tax and Mr D. is still our owner.

Anyway, I'm thinking JSmooth will probably start around $12 mil, even if that is overpaying. If you could start him at $10 mil I'd actually be pretty happy with that.

Also, still don't think you can trade Sheed unless you get a C back in return, and Tay doesn't do much for ATL unless they think Marvin can move to the 4 (and I'm not sold on that). It's not just a question of value, but also one of fit. Chauncey, Dice & Amir (or Maxiell) plus picks for Bibby & Smith makes the most sense to me...but the numbers still don't work. Well, without busting out my calculator they probably do work but then Detroit is paying like an extra $10 mil in tax.

Detroit has plenty of room under the tax tho.

The tax is estimated to be at about $70 million next year. Detroit has $8 million in breathing room right now even after giving Sharpe and another rookie min contracts.

One of the reasons Dumars may be reluctant to use the MLE is because so many teams are in or near the tax limit and he can afford to take on extra salary back in a trade without paying tax.

What is the BYC provision guarding against? Why does it exist? What loophole did it close?

are we sure BYC applies to sign and trades?

keep in mind, in a SnT, the signing team can not package said player in a trade, meaning atl would only beable to take back up to 125% of 50 % ofsmith's starting salary (assuming byc applies), about 7.5 million assuming his deal starts at 12. if so, the only starter we could include in the deal would be dyess, and not much else salary.

if byc applies in sign and trades, our best offer would be crappy, to say the lest.

I didn't realize we had that much wiggle room with the tax threshold.

And yes, BYC is most definitely applicable in S&T's.

One complication with sign-and-trade deals is that the signed player can immediately become a BYC player (see question number 73 for more information on BYC), so the player's BYC value must be used when determining whether the trade is allowed.