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A Falcons fan thinks Vick + Crumpler combined is better than Drew Brees.

Who do you take if you were given a chance.

For the 2001 Atlanta Falcons team, Michael Vick and Alge Crumpler 10 times out of 10. Just judging by how good they are at football.

High 5 wrote:For the 2001 Atlanta Falcons team, Michael Vick and Alge Crumpler 10 times out of 10. Just judging by how good they are at football.

Crumpler is very good. Not the best in the league but Tight Ends are easy to find. Franchise QB's are not. Drew Brees = one of the best in the game at the most important position. Vick = extremely overrated horrible passer who even with the most athletic gifts of any QB to ever play continues to stink it up season after season.

Brees all day

Drew Brees, unless my line is in shambles (Falcons)

Even then, maybe still Brees, and work on fixing the line

brees all day every day

Gilbert0Arenas wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Crumpler is very good. Not the best in the league but Tight Ends are easy to find. Franchise QB's are not. Drew Brees = one of the best in the game at the most important position. Vick = extremely overrated horrible passer who even with the most athletic gifts of any QB to ever play continues to stink it up season after season.

That's your opinion, but as someone who has watched every single Falcons game Vick has played in, I can tell you that you're completely clueless.

Let's see Drew Brees have an MVP year with the coaching staff and supporting cast Vick had last year.

His shoulder would have been permanently messed up

High 5 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



That's your opinion, but as someone who has watched every single Falcons game Vick has played in, I can tell you that you're completely clueless.

Your right. Even the stats are wrong which prove Mike Vick is a below average QB. Now yeah lets blame everything on his supporting cast despite the fact hes had WR's drafted in the first round for consecutive seasons and he still continues to suck along with them. Its just that you along with the other Atlanta fans blame all of Vicks shortcomings on the WR's and never consider the fact that maybe its Vick whos preventing them from reaching potential.

Gilbert0Arenas wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Your right. Even the stats are wrong which prove Mike Vick is a below average QB. Now yeah lets blame everything on his supporting cast despite the fact hes had WR's drafted in the first round for consecutive seasons and he still continues to suck along with them. Its just that you along with the other Atlanta fans blame all of Vicks shortcomings on the WR's and never consider the fact that maybe its Vick whos preventing them from reaching potential.

Saints fan here... it's the receivers.

Instead of just blindly hating a player, watch a game. If you can't see that the line and the receivers are the root of the problem, you are either blind or dumb.

NO-KG-AI wrote:
Saints fan here... it's the receivers.

Instead of just blindly hating a player, watch a game. If you can't see that the line and the receivers are the root of the problem, you are either blind or dumb.

I've watched quite a few Falcons games and the opinion I get of Vick is that, despite the receiver and line issues, he's still a below-average passing QB. Does my observation count any less than yours?

Basketball Jesus wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I've watched quite a few Falcons games and the opinion I get of Vick is that, despite the receiver and line issues, he's still a below-average passing QB. Does my observation count any less than yours?

Yes

Honestly it's hard to gauge him properly, and he hasn't blown anyone away, but he hasn't stunk it up either, his completion % is low, but he still gets more TD's than INT's despite the horrid receivers and the mediocre line.

Honestly, I haven't seen receivers more afraid of the football.

His passing yards are slightly below average, but he doesn't attempt many either.

He was 10th in TD passes... which is slightly above the league average for starters apparently.

He was 20th in passer rating, which again is below average.

His completion % was really bad, but how much better could it get with a line that can hold up from time to time, and some receivers that can hold onto the ball.

I don't think Mike Vick will ever be an elite passer, but if the team was set up right, I could see him at close to 60% and over 3000 yards, with good TD to INT ratio.... nothing mind blowing, but coupled with his game breaking running ability, that's one hell of a weapon.

On a pure QB standpoint, yeah I guess he's slightly below the average, but I would bet he would be above the average with a better supporting cast

NO-KG-AI wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Saints fan here... it's the receivers.

Instead of just blindly hating a player, watch a game. If you can't see that the line and the receivers are the root of the problem, you are either blind or dumb.

I guess I'm as blind and dumb as the Falcons organization. You know since the recievers and the offensive line are so bad, they couldn't fix it for the six years Vick has been in the league. But yeah it couldn't be that Mike Vick just has amazingly low pocket awareness, is more likely to run than pass (which is why he gets sacked a lot too) and maybe that besides gunning the ball, he puts absolutely no touch on his passes. But how could he be faulted??? Hes the most over glamorized player to ever play a professional sport.

Here try this, go look at the # of balls dropped by the Falcons WR's, factor them into Vicks completion % as catches and see how he grades out in accuracy. Quick hint: his completetion rate still stinks. But its the recievers right??!???

But yeah, I'm a dumb and a blind hater. So is the Falcons organization. At the same time you and the rest of the Falcons fans are living under a rock if you think the problem has been the recievers for over six years.

Gilbert0Arenas wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I guess I'm as blind and dumb as the Falcons organization. You know since the recievers and the offensive line are so bad, they couldn't fix it for the six years Vick has been in the league. But yeah it couldn't be that Mike Vick just has amazingly low pocket awareness, is more likely to run than pass (which is why he gets sacked a lot too) and maybe that besides gunning the ball, he puts absolutely no touch on his passes. But how could he be faulted??? Hes the most over glamorized player to ever play a professional sport.

Here try this, go look at the # of balls dropped by the Falcons WR's, factor them into Vicks completion % as catches and see how he grades out in accuracy. Quick hint: his completetion rate still stinks. But its the recievers right??!???

But yeah, I'm a dumb and a blind hater. So is the Falcons organization. At the same time you and the rest of the Falcons fans are living under a rock if you think the problem has been the recievers for over six years.

1 or 2 passes is the difference between a great completion percentage and a poor one ESPECIALLY on a team that doesn't throw the ball that often.

If the Falcons didn't have all these problems why do you think they took the time to analyze them on NFL Network?

As far as not surrounding him with talent in the last 6 years, the problem is that Rich McKay has NEVER been a great evaluator of WR talent even before his days in ATL. See Jacquez Green, Anthony, etc in Tampa.

And the Oline and whole offense was set back by the buffoons that were coaching the last 3 years.

Vick's best years were with Reeves in a vertical offense which is where he belongs.

It's sad he may not get that chance to be back in a vertical offense this time with a real supporting cast

Gilbert0Arenas wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I guess I'm as blind and dumb as the Falcons organization. You know since the recievers and the offensive line are so bad, they couldn't fix it for the six years Vick has been in the league. But yeah it couldn't be that Mike Vick just has amazingly low pocket awareness, is more likely to run than pass (which is why he gets sacked a lot too) and maybe that besides gunning the ball, he puts absolutely no touch on his passes. But how could he be faulted??? Hes the most over glamorized player to ever play a professional sport.

Here try this, go look at the # of balls dropped by the Falcons WR's, factor them into Vicks completion % as catches and see how he grades out in accuracy. Quick hint: his completetion rate still stinks. But its the recievers right??!???

But yeah, I'm a dumb and a blind hater. So is the Falcons organization. At the same time you and the rest of the Falcons fans are living under a rock if you think the problem has been the recievers for over six years.

Dropped passes are assuming the ball is actually touched.... I'd like to introduce you to Michael Jenkins... Mr. I short arm stuff because I am afraid of contact.

The receivers have been an issue for 6 years, Vick deserves some blame also, because he doesn't have the best decision making, but the Receivers are ridiculously bad.... Alge Crumpler is the only person worth throwing to, and even he had 2-3 drops, just in the Saint's games.

And again, I'm not a Falcons or a Vick fan, I hate them with a passion.

I think both of you, NO-KG-AI and High 5, know my stance on this... I honestly believe Vick has nowhere else to go. He's at that stage of his career where the habits and things that he picked up in the early stages of his career will stick around, and barring a meteoric retooling, it'll be hard for him to improve any further.

With that said, I'd take Vick and Crumpler over Brees in a heart-beat, and build an offense around an inside-outside run offense with a power back, complimented with a drop-off/screen/short-passes passing game, with the QB option added in small dosages.

NO-KG-AI wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Saints fan here... it's the receivers.

Instead of just blindly hating a player, watch a game. If you can't see that the line and the receivers are the root of the problem, you are either blind or dumb.

Bronco fan here, if you can't see that Vick is just as much to blame, then you are just as blind or dumb as the other guy.

I have watched plenty of games, Vick is a bad QB. He is Joey Harrington with a 4.4 40. He dosent check off, he dosent read defenses and he is terribly inaccurate.

For all the blame on the Multiple diffrent recievers, multilpe diffrent years Vick deserves just as much. I kinda compare it to someone who has been divorced, 5 times. At some point, blaming everyone else around you has to go out the window and you have to think, you know maybe im the problem.

Ill take Brees over Vick straight up, but with crumpler throw in you have to go with Vick and crumpler.

Except that Vick doesn't decide who he marries, management does

Hard to check down when you are running for your life.

He does have problems checking down, and reading defenses, but when he has time to throw, he usually hits his targets pretty well. He's not the most accurate guy in the league, but he's not terribly inaccurate.

It seems like everytime the receivers do there job, and the line holds up, he throws for around 60% and 3 TDs. (Pitt, cincy, Dal come to mind)

Bleh, frankly, if he ever comes back, and the Falcons decide to get some talent on offense, I hope I am wrong for sure.

NO-KG-AI wrote:Except that Vick doesn't decide who he marries, management does

Hard to check down when you are running for your life.

He does have problems checking down, and reading defenses, but when he has time to throw, he usually hits his targets pretty well. He's not the most accurate guy in the league, but he's not terribly inaccurate.

It seems like everytime the receivers do there job, and the line holds up, he throws for around 60% and 3 TDs. (Pitt, cincy, Dal come to mind)

Bleh, frankly, if he ever comes back, and the Falcons decide to get some talent on offense, I hope I am wrong for sure.

Yeah, but you can say that about any player in the league. Bottom line is, great players make players around them great. Look at Brady last year, out of all the recievers he worked with, Troy Brown might of made the Falcons roster.

Vick has happy feet, if crumpler is coverd he runs. Im just tired of people always saying, its not his fault. His recievers cant catch, his line cant block. Thats why he is so bad, it has nothing to do with the fact that he has not made any progress since his rookie year.

He is the same player, and im of the opnion especially with QB's. If you dont get it by your 3rd year in the league you never will. If Vick dosent get convicted, and Vick dosent get banned from the league for life. We will be here next year, hearing the same people say...Its the Falcons year, Vick has it together, he finally has the peices.

Dont we here that same lame argument every year? Every year same thing happens, the Falcons are in the middel of the pack, or towards the bottom like they always have been(outside that year they got smoked by the broncos in the superbowl).

IMO, the Falcons would be better cutting there loses, getting a more traditional system, solid qb, solid running back, and build a defense if they wanna win anytime soon.

Which is why I believe Vick will never win a superbowl if he is found innocent. Running QB's dont win superbowls, period. The league has been filled with running QB's the last 15+ years. Pocket passers win, they take less of a beating.

When guys start turning into more traditional QB's they seem to have better years, and get farther. IE: Mcnabb, McNair. The problem is, Vick has not shown any consistant ability that he can be a average pocket passer. When his legs go out, when he loses that speed and agility he will be riding the pine, assuming hes not in prison.

Because Vick without the legs is garbage, and at the QB position that is not good at all. I said hes harrington with mobility, make that Kyle Boller rocket arm, crazy potential but never seems to put it all together.

Elway=GOAT, in regards to the "scrambling QBs will never win a Superbowl" part of the reason is that the sample size is a lot smaller compared to pocket-QBs. I bet if you look at it from a relativity stand point, it might show that Scrambling QBs get to the Superbowl just as often as Pocket QBs.