Looking ahead to next season...

Banger_bro · Post #1 » by **Banger_bro** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:56 am

With this inconsistent team, it is going to take a miracle to win the wild card. There is still hope, but with each stupid loss, the light in growing dimmer.

This season hasn't been a total bust though. We pretty much have our set rotation and bullpen for next season. And from what I heard yesterday on the Sportsnet telecast, BJ Ryan may be ready by spring training, which bolsters the staff by that much more. The pitching (not sure if it was just starters or the whole staff) have the lowest ERA since the All star break.

In light of that, what are the Jays needs for next year? Eash position, except short, has a regular with long term contact, a nice prospect that isn't going anywhere (Rios). What does JP need to do to get the offense in gear?

cb4_89 · Post #2 » by **cb4_89** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:35 am

I think this offense will click sooner or later. He may not need to do much. Maybe sign a free agent or two.

Mak · Post #3 » by **Mak** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:58 pm

Something else will go wrong next year. Our pen has been solid last two years, its their turn to suck next year.

youngLion · Post #4 » by **youngLion** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:40 am

I think the team looks really good next year. The rotation looks to be stellar with Halladay, Burnett, Marcum, McGowan and Litsch or Chacin (or whoever). Contrary to what the previous poster said, the bullpen should be even more dominant, as we'll have Ryan back, making the game one inning shorter.

As for the lineup, here's how I see it: Vernon has had a disastrous season, he has nowhere to go but up. Hopefully he get can back to that .300, 25+ homer range. Add that to Rios' continued development, a more healthy Glaus (hopefully) and Frank Thomas who has picked it up, and I think the lineup can return to it's old form. I truly believe this team can compete next season.

Sai Young · Post #5 » by **Sai Young** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:46 pm

what makes you think ryan will be back
or even back full strength next year

tommy john surgery has had its effects on pitchers
it has made them worse and in billy koch's case
better

so you never know

Post #6 » by **Nolan** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:09 am

We need a true lead off hitter that can steal bases and hit for a high average. Someone can us some easy runs and give of more oportunities to score runs.

Reed Johnson is good and all but he isn't they type of player this team needs in the lead off spot.

Post #7 » by **Nolan** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:12 am

We also need a good catcher. Greg Zaun is not a good enough catcher, I love hos work ethic and all and determintation but he just isn't the right guy. We need someone who can actually pick off runners unlike Zaun who has a terrible throwing arm.

dennistokyo · Post #8 » by **dennistokyo** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:03 am

I don't understand why JP isn't or hasn't traded a couple of bullpen arms for prospects. The Blue Jay season was over a while ago and relievers with ERAs below 3 are very valuable this time of year. Actually, what has JP done this season to better the team?

Post #9 » by **OldNo7** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:44 am

dennistokyo wrote:I don't understand why JP isn't or hasn't traded a couple of bullpen arms for prospects. The Blue Jay season was over a while ago and relievers with ERAs below 3 are very valuable this time of year. Actually, what has JP done this season to better the team?

Nothing because he likes the team for next year.

fliszt25 · Post #10 » by **fliszt25** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:11 pm

dennistokyo wrote:I don't understand why JP isn't or hasn't traded a couple of bullpen arms for prospects. The Blue Jay season was over a while ago and relievers with ERAs below 3 are very valuable this time of year. Actually, what has JP done this season to better the team?

You're not the only one to wonder at this. At the very least, Towers and Frasor are expendable (maybe even Accardo if Ryan returns in strong form). Ricciardi has completely tapped into the resources of our farm system while obliterating it with draft choices that haven't panned out (David Purcey and Romero) and prospect trading (see Michael Young for Esteban Loaiza). JP was supposed to be the kind of GM that would build a contender by maintaining a healthy farm system but he is the absolute antagonist of that kind of a GM. So no, the last thing I expect JP to do is to trade FOR prospects. He seems more intent on getting a hold of washed up players to help the team now (in order to save his job). See Mark Redman, Joe Kennedy, Hector Luna, John Thompson, Tomo Ohka and Victor Zambrano.

beater97 · Post #11 » by **beater97** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:48 am

TheDogPlayingPoker wrote:I think the team looks really good next year. The rotation looks to be stellar with Halladay, Burnett, Marcum, McGowan and Litsch or Chacin (or whoever). Contrary to what the previous poster said, the bullpen should be even more dominant, as we'll have Ryan back, making the game one inning shorter.

As for the lineup, here's how I see it: Vernon has had a disastrous season, he has nowhere to go but up. Hopefully he get can back to that .300, 25+ homer range. Add that to Rios' continued development, a more healthy Glaus (hopefully) and Frank Thomas who has picked it up, and I think the lineup can return to it's old form. I truly believe this team can compete next season.

I wouldn't bank on that...

We need a true lead off hitter that can steal bases and hit for a high average. Someone can us some easy runs and give of more oportunities to score runs.

Reed Johnson is good and all but he isn't they type of player this team needs in the lead off spot.

Tru dat! A solid lead off man should be our number one priority for next off season. I wouldn't be apposed to dealing Glaus either for a prospect or two. Now I don't want this to happen but I wouldn't be angry if it did.

You're not the only one to wonder at this. At the very least, Towers and Frasor are expendable (maybe even Accardo if Ryan returns in strong form). Ricciardi has completely tapped into the resources of our farm system while obliterating it with draft choices that haven't panned out (David Purcey and Romero) and prospect trading (see Michael Young for Esteban Loaiza). JP was supposed to be the kind of GM that would build a contender by maintaining a healthy farm system but he is the absolute antagonist of that kind of a GM. So no, the last thing I expect JP to do is to trade FOR prospects. He seems more intent on getting a hold of washed up players to help the team now (in order to save his job). See Mark Redman, Joe Kennedy, Hector Luna, John Thompson, Tomo Ohka and Victor Zambrano.

First of all what the hell would Frasor or Towers get you? Nothing is the answer. I would much rather have them doing well from the pen then to trade them for a couple of spects that would never see the MLB.

And also, those signings you talk about at the bottom of your post that you suggest he made because he feared losing his job? In my opinion and a lot of other peoples on this board those were good low risk high reward signings. What did it cost us to sign all those players? Very little, why not take a chance and maybe something will work out! Also I really liked Luna, thought he would stay up with the team longer then he did. Although I guess he didn't deserve to stay with the team...

fliszt25 · Post #12 » by **fliszt25** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:17 pm

beater97 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

First of all what the hell would Frasor or Towers get you? Nothing is the answer. I would much rather have them doing well from the pen then to trade them for a couple of spects that would never see the MLB.

And also, those signings you talk about at the bottom of your post that you suggest he made because he feared losing his job? In my opinion and a lot of other peoples on this board those were good low risk high reward signings. What did it cost us to sign all those players? Very little, why not take a chance and maybe something will work out! Also I really liked Luna, thought he would stay up with the team longer then he did. Although I guess he didn't deserve to stay with the team...

Ok, I markedly disagree with you on Frasor and Towers. Consider that the Yankees were able to trade Scott Proctor (numbers comparable to Frasor) and get Wilson Betemit, a decent player with some upside out of L.A. Theoretically, by sending a package of Frasor AND Towers to a REAL contender, we may have been able to equal or top that.

Your point about low risk high reward signings is noted but you seem to be missing the crux of my argument. I mean, Luna may turn out to be a quality backup infielder but that is not what the Jays need to right the ship. My point is that JP seems to be centering ALL of his time on these minor signings and avoiding any big impact moves in an attempt to find 'diamonds in the rough' to improve the major and minor league teams. Hector Luna is not going to solve our hitting problems and nor are Kennedy and Redman going to replenish our barren farm system. Hopefully, we get some pitching depth out of these signings but it's not as much the signings that bother me rather than the lack of significant moves I'm seeing.

The point is: we have TOO many good arms in the bullpen. This is our asset. Why not try to obtain a prospect or a player with upside for one or two of them? Contenders are always seeking that competitive edge and you must agree that, in our present state, we are definitely not a contender.

Also, I did have a problem with the Zambrano, Ohka and Thompson signings in the context of the pitching we had in the minors. How many of those 3 signings are still here? Instead, we have a starting rotation exclusively (except for AJ) based on our FARM SYSTEM. And of course, all 3 of our young starters were only used when none of JP's low risk/quick fix signings were panning out. So, in fact, often, the low risk high reward mentality can be a waste of time.

Finally, if JP had had a proven track record of finding diamonds in the rough, I'd be more inclined to be patient on him with these signings. However, none of these signings have worked out yet.

SDM · Post #13 » by **SDM** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:48 pm

Mike Gonzalez on the DL netted Adam LaRoche. Accardo can net something similar.

Boston and Cleveland are getting by with first basemen who aren't traditional power guys but have high OBP and are smart baserunners you can pencil in at #2 or #5. Overbay definitely fits this category and his deal can be moved. I think packaging Accardo/Overbay can net us something special.

youngLion · Post #14 » by **youngLion** » Sat Sep 1, 2007 6:32 am

SDM wrote:Mike Gonzalez on the DL netted Adam LaRoche. Accardo can net something similar.

Boston and Cleveland are getting by with first basemen who aren't traditional power guys but have high OBP and are smart baserunners you can pencil in at #2 or #5. Overbay definitely fits this category and his deal can be moved. I think packaging Accardo/Overbay can net us something special.

Gonzalez wasn't on the DL when he was traded.

What do you mean by something special? Another first baseman? If not, who would fill that gap?

SDM · Post #15 » by **SDM** » Sat Sep 1, 2007 4:41 pm

My bad, I thought he was injured while he was with the Pirates.

By something special, it would be nice to get another legit .300 threat to the lineup, possibly at SS. That package could easily net it.

risktaker91 · Post #16 » by **risktaker91** » Sat Sep 1, 2007 8:20 pm

Yeah we need a speedy lead off .300 hitting SS. I agree that Accardo and Overbay could get us something like that.

So for next year our pitching looks great, both the Starting Lineup and the bullpen.

We just need more speed at the top of the lineup and some more power from Glaus/Wells/Thomas. Perhaps JP can pick up another bat and someone who can constantly git .300.

I really like this team for next year, but I also really liked this team for this year. Hopefully it works out next year.