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Some Wonderlic Scores leaked
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:38 am
by Manhattan Project
One of the many variables NFL teams plug into their draft grades are scores from the Wonderlic tests given at the scouting combine. Wonderlic tests are given to help gauge the intelligence of prospects.
NFL teams expect most prospects will score well because players can prepare for the tests. When a player has an unusually low score, it sets off alarms.
A person of average intelligence is supposed to score a 20. NFL teams like to see quarterbacks, offensive linemen, middle linebackers and safeties score higher than that because those positions can be mentally demanding.
At quarterback , none of the top prospects laid a Wonderlic egg. Boston College'sMatt Ryan, he of the off-the-charts intangibles, scored an impressive 32. And his score was matched by Louisville's Brian Brohm, the second-highest-rated quarterback after Ryan on most boards.
Joe Flacco of Delaware scored a 27 and Chad Henne of Michigan scored a 22. Both are considered second-round prospects.
Most of the top offensive linemen also tested well. Michigan'sJake Long scored a 26. Pittsburgh's Jeff Otah scored a 28. Southern California's Sam Baker scored a 27. Vanderbilt's Chris Williams scored a 32. Boston College's Godser Cherilus scored a 25. Virginia's Brandon Albert scored a 23.
At linebacker there are two players who look like surefire first-rounders, but one tested better. Tennessee'sJerod Mayo scored a 26 while USC's Keith Rivers had a 16. Rivers' test probably won't hurt because most teams consider him an outside linebacker.
Kenny Phillips of Miami, the only safety expected to go in the first round, did not help himself with a 16 test score.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ch ... 1355.story
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:51 am
by hermes
ooo kenny only got a 16
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:06 am
by Smooth32
Here's a much bigger list:
Compiled from various sources
Matt Ryan 28/32
Brian Brohm 32/45
Joe Flacco 27/24/30
Matt Flynn 26/38
Josh Johnson 15/24
Andre Woodson 14/20
Chad Henne 22
Sam Keller 21/34
Chris Johnson 10/29
Tashard Choice 21/27
Justin Forsett 21/35
Lex Hilliard 24/50
Danny Woodhead 29/38
Matt Forte 18/25
Owen Schmitt 24/30
Jerome Felton 28/41
Andre Caldwell 8/14Josh Morgan 19/26
Early Doucet 20/28
Keenan Burton 14/30
Harry Douglas 11/28
D.J. Hall 15/24
Luke Swan 25/34
Arman Shields 14/25
Donnie Avery 14/33
Jerome Simpson 17/23
Lavelle Hawkins 17/23
Tim Bugg 28/40
Joey Haynos 23/26
Martin Rucker 23/28
Jacob Tamme 34/34
Jake Long 26
Duane Brown 29/32
Devin Clark 11/29
Roy Schuening 26/45
Steve Justice 19/27
Jeff Otah 28/16/35
John Greco 28/36
Mike McGlynn 19/32
Chad Rinehart 35/42
Kory Lichtensteiger 29/36
Sam Baker 27
Chris Williams 32/31/37
Heath Benedict 28/39
Godser Cherilus 25/50
Brandon Albert 23
Mike Pollak 24/34
Ryan Clady 13
Quentin Groves 25/38
Darrell Robertson 30/33
Brian Johnston 16/31
Kenny Iwebema 22/28
Chris Ellis 14/22
Chris Long 34/45
Wallace Gilberry 17/50
Glenn Dorsey 21/26
Red Bryant 17/20
Carlton Powell 34/43
Kendall Langford 17/33
Xavier Adibi 13/20
JoLonn Dunbar 20/32
Spencer Larsen 25/33
Jerod Mayo 26
Vince Hall 14/23
Keith Rivers 16
Beau Bell 14/18
J Leman 31/34
Ezra Butler 17/26
Ali Highsmith 7/13
Philip Wheeler 29/42
Antoine Cason 16/28
Tracy Porter 4/23
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie 19/38
Leodis McKelvin 13/34
Chevis Jackson 15/30
Charles Godfrey 11/28
D.J. Parker 13/28
DeJuan Tribble 18/33
Travis Williams 4/19
Terrence Wheatley 21/38
Simeon Castille 19/30
Jamie Silva 29/37
Corey Lynch 31/41
Thomas DeCoud 24/36
Kenny Phillips 16
Jermaine Moye 15/32
Taylor Mehlhaff 27/45
http://potencial.wordpress.com/2008/...derlic-scores/
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:23 pm
by Ex-hippie
Anyone know if there's an online version of the Wonderlic? I'd like to lock myself in a room and try it out within the prescribed time.
ESPN has sample questions
here and the only one that looks particularly challenging is #11. #13 also requires a little bit of math, but with pencil and paper I figured it out in about 10-15 seconds, which is fine for a 12-minute test with 50 questions. The rest are pretty much gimmes.
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:44 pm
by CJ_18
Why are all the denominators different?
Can someone explain the scoring system please?
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:45 pm
by Icness
I got wind of most of the scores and the stuff from the Tribune is the same as what I've got. Some other scores I know of:
Ali Highsmith got the lowest score, a 7. Josh Morgan also got a 7. Tracy Porter got a 9.
Ryan Clady--13
James Hardy--13 (IU not looking like such a bastion of academics!)
Beau Bell--14
Andre Woodson and Josh Johnson both got 15--that's really not going to help them.
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:30 pm
by randomhero423
ehhh shouldn't be a big factor.
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:43 pm
by Ex-hippie
Icness wrote:Andre Woodson and Josh Johnson both got 15--that's really not going to help them.
Discuss:
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... _id=835204
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:44 pm
by catalyst
Its sort of like poor combine workouts for star players. It cant help, but probably will not hurt if the player fits a particular team's needs. The only real factors to hurt draftees stock has been attitude (Randy Moss) and late drug rumors (Warren Sapp). I cannot recall anyone who slipped far due to poor testing. Vince young scored about a 3 on wonderlic and it got out. He retook and "improved" to a 14 or so. He was still the 3 pick and ROY.
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:22 pm
by Icness
It's certainly not the be-all/end-all criterium, but I know teams place more of an emphasis on intelligence for the QB, MLB, and C positions. And this year I believe (and I'm certainly not alone!) that intelligence and character are going to play a larger factor than ever before on draft boards.
But as catalyst correctly pointed out, it's not going to stop someone with obvious high-level talent from being drafted high. Dan Marino and Vinny Testaverde probably couldn't score a 10 combined, but they had enough apparent NFL skill to stay high draft picks and have great careers. Jamarcus Russell didn't score well but he still went #1 overall. But if a guy has other legit question marks--which both Woodson and Johnson face--then scoring poorly gives teams another reason to not take a chance.
I honestly don't believe there is more than a small crumb to the racial angle. I'm not saying it's not in the back of some minds in some places, but my experience is that the stigma surrounding black QBs is basically gone. If a guy can make a team better, front office people and coaches care not what color he is. Of course I'm neither black nor a QB...
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:20 pm
by deeney0
Does a Wonderlic score really tell you anything that a combination of light film study and a 15 minute conversation with the guy doesn't?
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:21 pm
by Ex-hippie
Icness wrote:I honestly don't believe there is more than a small crumb to the racial angle. I'm not saying it's not in the back of some minds in some places, but my experience is that the stigma surrounding black QBs is basically gone. If a guy can make a team better, front office people and coaches care not what color he is. Of course I'm neither black nor a QB...
I didn't mean to stir up a major racial discussion here, but I believe one of the arguments in the article I linked is that the Wonderlic can be culturally biased. I didn't write it -- or even read more than the abstract -- but just brought it up.