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Mock 7.0 now up

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:45 am
by Icness
http://football.realgm.com/src_feature_ ... (mid_march)/

4 rounds on this one, with some commentary at the beginning at the expense of breaking down every pick.

A couple of additional things:

--pay very little attention to when you see that a player is visiting with a team for a private workout. It does not make them any more likely to draft that player than if they never met with them at all. Just last year the Giants met with Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco when they obviously were not taking a 1st or 2nd round QB.

--I am still anticipating a lot of trade movement in the 15-35 range, so many of the picks there are as much player/slot as they are team/player matches. Or they are player/team matches but probably in the wrong slot position.

And a special props to me for landing a deal with another NFL team to help provide them a barrage of mock draft scenarios. Yes folks, I will be getting paid to come up with mocks such as "Run on RBs" and "If the QBs fall". Not being tethered to one team has been very good for me this past season 8-)

Re: Mock 7.0 now up

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:51 pm
by Cliff Levingston
What's with the Bears taking Pat White in the second round?

Re: Mock 7.0 now up

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:29 pm
by -GIL-
Congrats Icness!

Few comments on the draft:

- Just curious: how sure are you on the top 5 picks?

* Last week NFL.com had an article by Sam Wyche where he quoted a source that said the Seahawks were leaning towards going with an "offensive playmaker" with the 4th overall pick. Take it for what it's worth but I just thought it was interesting. On top of that, I just can't see the Seahawks going with Everette Brown with how much money they have invested there now with Cole, Redding, Kerney, and Jackson, as well as the amount of draft picks they spent the past couple of years (Tapp, Jackson, Mebane, Bryant, etc.).

* Malcolm Jenkins to the Browns...really? I have a feeling that the Browns, well Mangini, might really like Jenkins, but that high for a position that they don't really *need* and especially after his 40 time? I'm not totally opposed to Jenkins but I have a gut feeling they'll take Orakpo if he's there (don't like it, but...).

In the 2nd round I have no problem with Larry English. Love it.

But Cedric Peerman with the Kellen Winslow pick? I think Browns' fans would have a collective mutiny if that happened. I know they just signed Noah Herron but they now go 3-deep. Herron isn't much of a reason to pass on a RB but Peerman seems like a duplicate of Herron and, IMHO, won't be much more than a 3rd down back. I could see Donald Brown, Shonn Greene or even Andre Brown (wouldn't agree with it) but is there something I'm missing on Peerman? Or do the Browns just really like him?

Great 3rd round pick too. Love Chung, especially with the Jets matching the Elam offer sheet. Chung is the best SS prospect in the draft.

How I would pick for the Browns:

#5 - Michael Crabtree
#37 - Larry English
#50 - Wood/Luigs/Caldwell
# 100 - Patrick Chung

Any clue which way they're leaning, by any chance? Any info would be appreciated.

* Michael Crabtree seems like a logical pick but Michael Lombardi said he's positive that the Raiders go with a lineman (defensive or offensive) at #7. Take it for what it's worth.

* Clay Matthews that high...REALLY?!?! The kid isn't anything more than a 3rd round talent and teams will pay for taking him anywhere higher than there.

* I can see Tyson Jackson that high but it does seem a bit high there.

* Boy would the Lions be on the right track with those first three picks...but who the heck is Chad Owens?

Overall, great job as always!

Re: Mock 7.0 now up

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:56 pm
by Friend_Of_Haley
Cliff Levingston wrote:What's with the Bears taking Pat White in the second round?

Wildcat offense with Hester and Forte?

Re: Mock 7.0 now up

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:22 am
by sunshinekids99
Pats taking 2 DT's in the first three rounds? Doesn't make much sense to me...plus I don't see how they get time with Wilfork and Wright in the way. Even if they can play DE they are behind Seymour, Warren, Green. Don't understand this at all from a Pats point of view, actually most of their picks I'm not understanding.

Re: Mock 7.0 now up

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:39 am
by NoSkyy
sunshinekids99 wrote:Pats taking 2 DT's in the first three rounds? Doesn't make much sense to me...plus I don't see how they get time with Wilfork and Wright in the way. Even if they can play DE they are behind Seymour, Warren, Green. Don't understand this at all from a Pats point of view, actually most of their picks I'm not understanding.


Quoted from the beginning:

"I do not expect New England to keep more than two of their first four picks (all in the top 58). I slotted players with the draft position and not necessarily the Patriots to some extent with all three second rounders. I do strongly believe they will take at least one RB with those picks -- they have just one RB on the roster who figures in their plans beyond next season. And if the Patriots think that just the #34 pick will be enough to get Julius Peppers from Carolina, they are sorely mistaken. "

Re: Mock 7.0 now up

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:55 am
by Celtics_Champs
It's like the 2 RB's of last time right, Ic? You're just picking players for that spot, but think the patriots will make a trade. I hope so, because a DT is not something I would want to see them draft.

Come on then BB, and make a move already, don't string us fans out till the draft and ruin our mocks!

Re: Mock 7.0 now up

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:24 am
by Manhattan Project
The only thing that I would change about the Jets draft is the fourth round, Id take Barden over Dillard. Only reason being is that I'm a sucker for 6'6 receivers who can be used in the redzone. Id love to grab Sanchez, obvious since I been a supporter all along. Darius Butler/Sean Smith id be happy with either one. Brown/Jennings Id be happy either one.

Re: Mock 7.0 now up

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:20 pm
by Flaming Mo
Let Knowshon Moreno drop two more spots and I'm happy for the Jets... :wink:

Re: Mock 7.0 now up

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:04 pm
by hermes
like the vikes picks

Re: Mock 7.0 now up

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:25 pm
by Icness
Few comments on the draft:

- Just curious: how sure are you on the top 5 picks?

Less now than when I wrote it. My "knowns":
Curry will not fall below KC. It's more likely that Rush Limbaugh will solicit campaign $$ for Hillary Clinton than the Chiefs not taking him.
STL prefers Monroe to Jason Smith and will take him if he's there. If DET takes Monroe (not likely) then the Rams will take Curry
Seattle is looking to slide back a few spots and take Crabtree. They don't want the risk at that high a pick. He's not out of the question at #4, but neither is Matt Stafford or Mark Sanchez.
Detroit is probably 75% sold on Curry, 15% Jason Smith, 5% Stafford, and 5% Monroe.

* Last week NFL.com had an article by Sam Wyche where he quoted a source that said the Seahawks were leaning towards going with an "offensive playmaker" with the 4th overall pick. Take it for what it's worth but I just thought it was interesting. On top of that, I just can't see the Seahawks going with Everette Brown with how much money they have invested there now with Cole, Redding, Kerney, and Jackson, as well as the amount of draft picks they spent the past couple of years (Tapp, Jackson, Mebane, Bryant, etc.).

You know, I forgot about Cole completely. I agree with Wyche's assessment but I think it might be a little lower.

* Malcolm Jenkins to the Browns...really? I have a feeling that the Browns, well Mangini, might really like Jenkins, but that high for a position that they don't really *need* and especially after his 40 time? I'm not totally opposed to Jenkins but I have a gut feeling they'll take Orakpo if he's there (don't like it, but...).

Orakpo is unlikely because he's had some trouble staying healthy and they are tired of being snakebit on that. Very tired. Everette Brown is a very realistic possibility. And one Browns beatie insists off the record that they are very serious about taking Matt Stafford if he is there. IMO that's a smokescreen to either drive up the asking price for the pick or to help try and get Jay Cutler, but that's just a guess.

In the 2nd round I have no problem with Larry English. Love it.

But Cedric Peerman with the Kellen Winslow pick? I think Browns' fans would have a collective mutiny if that happened. I know they just signed Noah Herron but they now go 3-deep. Herron isn't much of a reason to pass on a RB but Peerman seems like a duplicate of Herron and, IMHO, won't be much more than a 3rd down back. I could see Donald Brown, Shonn Greene or even Andre Brown (wouldn't agree with it) but is there something I'm missing on Peerman? Or do the Browns just really like him?


They do very much like Peerman, for a couple of reasons. First is that he's a lot like Deangelo Williams, a between-the-tackles guy but with great explosion after he gets thru the line. He plays big. His 40 time is very good, but what really sets it apart was his 10-yard split. He's at 1.4, and no other RB has put up better than 1.5 in any officially timed workout. He's also got great hands, low mileage, and high character. I believe you're going to see him steadily climbing draft boards and in other mocks soon enough.

Great 3rd round pick too. Love Chung, especially with the Jets matching the Elam offer sheet. Chung is the best SS prospect in the draft.


They are super pissed that the Jets matched on Elam, even though everyone I talked to expected that to happen. They're still in denial/shock that Jones took significantly less money and security to leave. I am not a Chung fan at all (too deliberate and very much a tweener type, a la Terrence Holt), but as I always say...these picks represent what I believe the teams will do given the situation, not what I would do.

How I would pick for the Browns:

#5 - Michael Crabtree
#37 - Larry English
#50 - Wood/Luigs/Caldwell
# 100 - Patrick Chung


How I would pick it, my ideal Browns draft:
#5 - B.J. Raji
#37 - James Laurinaitis
#50 - Coye Francies
#100 - Rashad Jennings

Any clue which way they're leaning, by any chance? Any info would be appreciated.

* Michael Crabtree seems like a logical pick but Michael Lombardi said he's positive that the Raiders go with a lineman (defensive or offensive) at #7. Take it for what it's worth.

I'll have to give Michael a call and chat. Great guy and he would know.

* Clay Matthews that high...REALLY?!?! The kid isn't anything more than a 3rd round talent and teams will pay for taking him anywhere higher than there.


He could go to Buffalo at #11, and I highly doubt he would fall below New England. Most people I talk to think he's clearly the best USC defensive prospect in this draft, and would still be if Taylor Mays had declared. Bloodlines mean a lot, and the fact he developed and blossomed (not a common trait amongst Trojans, sorry Lakeshow!) during his career speaks volumes about him.

* I can see Tyson Jackson that high but it does seem a bit high there.


Tyson is a toughie because nobody really knows exactly what he is. IMO he's a 3-4 end or a 4-3 LDE, which normally doesn't merit that high a pick. I really like him and his stock went up in my book despite not having the big numbers because he did what LSU asked him to do and worked very hard at it. Ricky Jean Francois, on the other hand...look out below!

* Boy would the Lions be on the right track with those first three picks...but who the heck is Chad Owens?


It's Chris Owens, and he's another guy you're going to see moving up in most mocks. He played opposite Coye Francies (a guy I really like) and Peanut Lowery of the Jets and saw a ton of action as a result. He's not flashy or much of a playmaker but he's very solid in man and zone and he's got a great football IQ. A lot of WRs have talked him up as the best cover man they faced, and teams listen to that type of stuff.

Re: Mock 7.0 now up

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:59 pm
by Friend_Of_Haley
Icness, can you comment on the Pat White to Chicago pick for Cliff and I?

You've had him the last two drafts and I'm just curious what your basis is.

Re: Mock 7.0 now up

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:20 pm
by -GIL-
Icness wrote:Few comments on the draft:


Thanks for taking the time to write a lengthy reply!

Seattle is looking to slide back a few spots and take Crabtree. They don't want the risk at that high a pick. He's not out of the question at #4, but neither is Matt Stafford or Mark Sanchez.
Detroit is probably 75% sold on Curry, 15% Jason Smith, 5% Stafford, and 5% Monroe.


Detroit is still 75% sold on Curry after trading for Julian Peterson? I know Peterson shouldn't be a deterrent to drafting a talent like Curry but they now have 2 good LB's in place. Not only that but both Sims and Peterson are outside 'backers and, if I remember correctly, Sims is due up for a new contract soon and that will surely set the Lions back. And then on top of that, Curry would need to change positions to MLB in the 4-3. I'm not saying he can't do it but he seems naturally built for the outside.

I've also never seen Schwartz as a big linebacker guy too. He never had anyone inside, next to Keith Bullock, and they still seemed to be fine. Guys like Rocky Boiman, Stephen Tulloch, etc., if I remember correctly.

I just can't see the Lions tying that much money and talent in a position that isn't a "core" position (talking about the LB position as a whole) and they have a hole at LT (don't even to try and convince me that Jeff Backus is a franchise LT because he isn't). But then again...they still are the Lions.

Orakpo is unlikely because he's had some trouble staying healthy and they are tired of being snakebit on that. Very tired. Everette Brown is a very realistic possibility. And one Browns beatie insists off the record that they are very serious about taking Matt Stafford if he is there. IMO that's a smokescreen to either drive up the asking price for the pick or to help try and get Jay Cutler, but that's just a guess.


That's interesting you mention that about Orakpo since Don Banks has echoed that same sentiment in the past couple of his mocks. But then I found these comments by Orakpo pretty interesting:

"Cleveland seemed pretty interested, though that is just from my perspective," Orakpo said. "Coach (Eric) Mangini and the rest of the staff seemed very interested in what I bring to the table. They made a comment after I was talking about the scheme responsibilities that I 'passed the test' and then they started asking me other, funnier, more random questions like about my favorite TV show (Family Guy) or the first musician on my iPod (Lil' Wayne) and stuff like that."

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/11515045


I like Everette, very much so and more so than Brown, but the thing I worry about with Brown is how he'll hold up against the run.

It looks like the Browns will keep KillaKam facing LT's next year and will be drafting a OLB that will be going up against big 'ole RT's, FB's and chipping TE's. The Browns not only need a guy who can get to the quarterback but someone who can hold up against the run; and I'm not too sure Brown can be "that guy".

I could see them taking a QB with them not completely sold on either QB but I don't think it's anything more than what to you said: a posture.

They do very much like Peerman, for a couple of reasons. First is that he's a lot like Deangelo Williams, a between-the-tackles guy but with great explosion after he gets thru the line. He plays big. His 40 time is very good, but what really sets it apart was his 10-yard split. He's at 1.4, and no other RB has put up better than 1.5 in any officially timed workout. He's also got great hands, low mileage, and high character. I believe you're going to see him steadily climbing draft boards and in other mocks soon enough.


Thanks for the info.

Only problem is that I think he's got durability issues and his small hands caused him to put a lot of balls on the turf last year.

They are super pissed that the Jets matched on Elam, even though everyone I talked to expected that to happen. They're still in denial/shock that Jones took significantly less money and security to leave. I am not a Chung fan at all (too deliberate and very much a tweener type, a la Terrence Holt), but as I always say...these picks represent what I believe the teams will do given the situation, not what I would do.


I'm not sure why they signed Elam to such a small offer sheet, especially when it was only like $500,000 extra the Jets to match. Although I wouldn't rule out the Browns trying to trade something for him...like a 6th or 7th round pick.

How I would pick it, my ideal Browns draft:
#5 - B.J. Raji
#37 - James Laurinaitis
#50 - Coye Francies
#100 - Rashad Jennings


Can't see the Browns going after either Raji or Francies 'cause of their character issues. I know Raji's got some problems off-the-field, along with the few failed drug tests he had at BC as well. Not the type of guy that ManKok wants.

I love Laurinaitis but the Browns need a playmaker and thumper next to D'Qwell Jackson. If the Browns didn't have Jackson then I'd be all over it but James would just compound the issue further.

Jennings I like though.

He could go to Buffalo at #11, and I highly doubt he would fall below New England. Most people I talk to think he's clearly the best USC defensive prospect in this draft, and would still be if Taylor Mays had declared. Bloodlines mean a lot, and the fact he developed and blossomed (not a common trait amongst Trojans, sorry Lakeshow!) during his career speaks volumes about him.


He did develop but I don't see anything so special that stands out about him that screams, "1st round lock!". He'll be an average player in the 3-4, where he'll hold up decently against the run and put occasional pressure on the QB and he'll be an average player in the 4-3 where his strengths aren't utilized properly and will struggle in consistent coverage.

Love the bloodlines and love the hardwork but same could be said for 1,000 other guys in the draft too. Hard work and nice stories don't make a good football player.

Sorry, just don't see it.

Re: Mock 7.0 now up

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:34 am
by sunshinekids99
NoSkyy wrote:
sunshinekids99 wrote:Pats taking 2 DT's in the first three rounds? Doesn't make much sense to me...plus I don't see how they get time with Wilfork and Wright in the way. Even if they can play DE they are behind Seymour, Warren, Green. Don't understand this at all from a Pats point of view, actually most of their picks I'm not understanding.


Quoted from the beginning:

"I do not expect New England to keep more than two of their first four picks (all in the top 58). I slotted players with the draft position and not necessarily the Patriots to some extent with all three second rounders. I do strongly believe they will take at least one RB with those picks -- they have just one RB on the roster who figures in their plans beyond next season. And if the Patriots think that just the #34 pick will be enough to get Julius Peppers from Carolina, they are sorely mistaken. "


Read the whole thing, gotcha. Thanks.

Re: Mock 7.0 now up

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:20 am
by Icness
Friend_Of_Haley wrote:Icness, can you comment on the Pat White to Chicago pick for Cliff and I?

You've had him the last two drafts and I'm just curious what your basis is.


They like his potential for development at QB without the pressure to play him right away. They really do not want to take a QB in the 1st because they respect Orton enough (among other reasons), but in the 2nd they can justify him not playing at QB next year. And he can contribute in Wildcat packages or a few snaps as a Slash-type, like on 3rd and short or goal line sets which is something they are focused on improving. They spent an inordinate amount of time with him at both the Senior Bowl and Combine and he's the type of person Lovie loves.

Re: Mock 7.0 now up

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:04 pm
by dsorc
Your Houston draft is way off. I know you mentioned that around 15 you're going more slot player and player to team but Moreno to Houston is just so wrong. Gary Kubiak comes from the Denver line that doesn't draft RBs early. Plus with Slaton set to start at a fraction of the price, getting a backup RB in the first makes absolutely no sense. We'll more than likely draft a RB but it will be round 3 or later.

Then Michael Johnson in the second is good value for the draft slot but not really a good fit. We just signed Antonio Smith to be the starter at LE and nobody is moving Mario from RE. Then in the 4th, Cadogan better be able to play G because our OTs are locked up.

Based on your scenario the Houston draft would probably go
1. Vontae Davis CB - not a great need but BPA defense. I have him ranked better than A.Smith in part due to the measurable. Maualuga wouldn't fit our scheme as far as I know so I'm not considering him
2. Patrick Chung SS - I don't see any way he drops as far as you have him given he's probably the best SS in the draft. SS is our biggest need.
3. Tyron McKenzie SLB - Second biggest need
4. Andy Levitre OG - Why gab an OT when what we need is an OG or an OC?
4. DE or RB - Here's where we start looking for depth

Re: Mock 7.0 now up

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:35 pm
by SpeedyG
Seems QB at #8 to Jax is picking up steam. Is there really any legs to these rumors? Seems more and more mocks are projecting the Jaguars to draft a QB. Honestly, I can't imagine the Jaguars financially being able to pay both Garrard and a top 10 pick (who will surely make just as much as Garrard got paid last year). It doesn't seem feasable to pay two players at one position (only one of which will get to play on Sundays) given how many needs and holes this team house.

I also hope they don't go after Williams/Turner. I know the team doesn't have any WRs on the roster with NFL experience aside from Northcutt and Walker, but Williams has long been an underachiever whose measurables looks bad, and Turner is an even worse version of the type of WRs the team used to have (tall/big). At least Reggie Williams is a devastating run blocker and is tough as nails and Jones can jump.

Re: Mock 7.0 now up

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:47 am
by Hannibal
Previously posted on the Mock 6 thread, where the link sent me. Sorry.

As to the Steelers: el loco probably is correct. The team has lost players at CB, WR and S. It would not be atypical for Colbert to draft first at those positions. However, the Combine revealed that the Day 1 CB are either painfully slow or tiny or both; by consensus, it's not a great year at S. There are good Day 1 WR but the Steelers #1 need is for a WR with return ability, and there are few of those. Summarily: it's Harvin, Tate, Williams or Wallace; of those, only Wallace survives this 4 R probe. If the Steelers don't get a WR with return ability, there are deep Day 2 DB who may work out.

To the picks given, with alternatives to follow.

Eben Britton is a RT. The Steelers have two, sorta, in Colon and Starks. Their need is at LT. However, there is little info, to date, that they're looking in that direction. They ran Andrew Gardner's drill and have interviewed Alex Boone, at Indy and Columbus. Both are Day 2 picks, presumably; Boone certainly is a RT.

Paul Kruger: undersized as a 34 DE and hasn't shown the athleticism to be an OLB. Kruger does not fit the system, imo.

Kenny McKinley: ok pick if he has return ability, but there are bigs on the board who better fit. It is highly likely the Steelers will get a R3 comp for Faneca. Tho i do appreciate this mock doesn't consider those, the alternates following will.

Jason Williams: nice pick, probably BPA at the spot. However, his trait set is similar to Timmons'. Anyway, I doubt Williams comes thru the Tampa 2 gauntlet in R3, let alone 4.

Alternatives:

R1: Connor Barwin, OLB: obviously, not an immediate need. However, negotiations with James Harrison are not going well. At some point, the Steeler FO may decide there's a price too high for a 30-something edge rusher, even if he is the reigning DPoY and should have been Super Bowl MVP. Alternative 2: Hakeem Nicks, WR. Alternative 3: trade back towards: Nicks or Britt, or Jarron Gilbert (a RDE in the PS system). It is high for Gilbert, but not those WR, nor Barwin.

R2: Eric Wood, IOL: a godsend should he reach 64, tho that is not likely. Absolutely BPA.

R3a: Gerald Cadogen, LT: highly intelligent, has the arm length thing goin'...needs tech work.

R3b: Dorell Scott, DL: good teammate, good strength, good frame, good mass, good get-off, and an experienced collegian Unlike Kruger has both kidneys and does fit the system.

R4: Andrew Gardner, OT: 2 time first team ACC, 4 year starter. The labrum will heal. Another highly intelligent OL with good arm length, hand size. To no one's surprise, the OT position is tapping out at R4; after Gardner, there's Boone, who does carry some character issues and Josh Bell, who is overage with some level of competition items. Take Gardner, pass Jason Williams tho with regret.

Later prospects, imo, include but surely are not limited to:

CB Donald Carey and Bradley Fletcher, WR/KR Mike Wallace, S Chris Clemons and Quin Glover; DL Chris Baker, John Gill, Jeremy Navarre and Vaughn Martin; interior OL Robert Brewster; tiny DB/KR Brice McCain, Jon Burnett and Donald Dunn. WR Eron Riley.

Re: Mock 7.0 now up

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:15 pm
by kdawg32086
You weren't kidding about finding it hard to slot DJ Moore. He's not even in your four round mock.