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The "we can't mortgage our future" argument is stupid

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Re: The "we can't mortgage our future" argument is stupid 

Post#21 » by Flash Falcon X » Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:09 pm

HiRez wrote:
Flash Falcon X wrote:the warriors are losing games due to lack of focus and effort, not a lack of talent.

people are looking at these losses, but a lot of them were easily winnable games. gsw's problem is that they just need to have a sense of urgency in games, and when they have the lead they can't take their foot off of the gas pedal. lately they've been playing down to the level of all the bad teams, they try to coast against injured teams, and when they have a big lead in games they get too comfortable and let their opponents come back.

they just need to string some wins together to secure better seeding, and once they get into the playoffs we'll see how deadly gsw really is when it's the postseason and time to get serious each game. i have a feeling it'll be interesting looking back on all these panic threads then.

I agree with most of that, but when you're in a 3-way tie for 9th place and showing few signs of doing the things you suggest, in late January, it's time for a little concern. Yes, they could go on a little run and bubble up in the pack. But they could just as easily go on a small losing streak (maybe because of one or two minor injuries to key players) and find themselves with ~6 teams between them and the #6 seed. Since this team is not good at focusing and executing reliably in a single game (sometimes volatile shooting dooms them too) I believe it's critical they avoid the play-in.


i agree. time is now for them to get their heads straight and focused otherwise it's too late, especially with other teams getting healthier.
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Re: The "we can't mortgage our future" argument is stupid 

Post#22 » by gst8 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:48 pm

I do think the Warriors have transcended into one of those franchises that players will come to in FA or demand trades to, so I'm less worried about our ability to field good teams in the future than I would have been 8-10 years ago. I'm not saying that trades should or shouldn't be made, but I think we're less dependent on developing stars internally than years past.
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Re: The "we can't mortgage our future" argument is stupid 

Post#23 » by SinceGatlingWasARookie » Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:48 am

We have no reason to mortgage our future unless we are a good player away from a chamionship.
I say we are already the championship favorite unless some other team makes a move.
But our margin for victory could be stronger.

Looney is good but does not shot block. Wiseman and JMG don’t make me confident. The easiest thing to upgrade should be back up center. I am reluctant to give up Wiseman because we basically need Wiseman to become an All-Star to have the dynasty continue while Curry, Klay and Dray get diminished by age. The current trade value for Wiseman is not that high anyway.

Upgrading Curry, Draymond Wigginss, Klay and Poole as 6th man is not easy. Donte is all right although I always want blazing speed at back up point guard because Curry is not fast. Lamb, Kuminga and Klay gives 3 options for backing up Wiggins. Kuminga and JMG gives 2 options for backing up Draymond. If Kuminga would hurry up and become great back up forward would be a non issue.

I would trade Trade JMG and 3 1st round picks for somebody like Jaren Jackson but who is like Jaren Jackson. Or trade JMG and Moody and 3 1st round picks for a shot blocking center and a good defending power forward. Maybe Moody, JMG and a 1st for a shot blocking center who is not payed more than JMG and Moody and who has flaws in his game. Then find a vet minimum 3rd string power forward on the scrap heep.

Otherwise I would just stay put and hope that the Warriors can win without shot blocking or hope that Wiseman becomes playable and can provide shot blocking. Other than not having a shot blocking back up center the Warriors have a complete team if they play right and if Wiseman woud blossom we would have our shot blocker.
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Re: The "we can't mortgage our future" argument is stupid 

Post#24 » by SpreeS » Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:28 am

Chris Porter's Hair wrote:
SpreeS wrote:A lot of here with rose colored glasses. Davis, Zion, Ingram, KAT, Booker all be ready to play in two weeks period. OKC and SAC are on the wave and we on the bottom…No we move into different direction. More 10 games at this level and this season is done

So the goal is to make a trade that will make us substantially better within 10 games?


I don’t think that new role player would save this team. Everything starts and ends from our the best players.
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Re: The "we can't mortgage our future" argument is stupid 

Post#25 » by SpreeS » Thu Feb 2, 2023 7:10 pm

Chris Porter's Hair wrote:
SpreeS wrote:A lot of here with rose colored glasses. Davis, Zion, Ingram, KAT, Booker all be ready to play in two weeks period. OKC and SAC are on the wave and we on the bottom…No we move into different direction. More 10 games at this level and this season is done

So the goal is to make a trade that will make us substantially better within 10 games?


I dont know what kind of goals have FO or coaching staff. But be midd tear team and to sell low on young players who sitting on the bench not an option.
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Re: The "we can't mortgage our future" argument is stupid 

Post#26 » by Chris Porter's Hair » Thu Feb 2, 2023 7:53 pm

SpreeS wrote:
Chris Porter's Hair wrote:
SpreeS wrote:A lot of here with rose colored glasses. Davis, Zion, Ingram, KAT, Booker all be ready to play in two weeks period. OKC and SAC are on the wave and we on the bottom…No we move into different direction. More 10 games at this level and this season is done

So the goal is to make a trade that will make us substantially better within 10 games?


I dont know what kind of goals have FO or coaching staff. But be midd tear team and to sell low on young players who sitting on the bench not an option.

I honestly don't have any idea what you were trying to say here.
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Re: The "we can't mortgage our future" argument is stupid 

Post#27 » by HiRez » Thu Feb 2, 2023 8:13 pm

It's crazy that we have a championship team that feels like it's on the verge of total collapse.

  • Steph, Draymond, and Klay aren't done but they're all showing their age. It doesn't feel like they can play every day anymore, or play well for 35+ minutes in games that require it.
  • Iguodala is completely washed, dude should have retired already and be playing golf all day.
  • Draymond didn't get a contract extension (while the erratic Poole did) and you know he's stewing over that internally.
  • Moody and Wiseman aren't playable, whether it's because they completely suck or just haven't gotten a chance to play is hard to tell but it's wasted roster spots.
  • Kuminga has been playing some (and improving) but Kerr basically wouldn't play him the first half of the year so he's behind where he should be now.
  • Meaningful trades are restricted because the value of our young guys is depressed, and our vets either we need them or their age and high contracts won't be that appealing to other teams.
  • The FRP we had to give up to move Iguodala means we can't offer a FRP in a trade for 2023, 2024, or 2025.
  • They are super deep into luxury and repeater taxes, so every dollar they add converts to something like $7, making even minor additions prohibitively expensive.
  • The salary structure is highly unbalanced between max contracts and cheap young guys, again making matching salaries for trades difficult (Wiseman and Looney are really the only 2 contracts in the middle).
  • There is clearly internal tension and dissent over the direction of the team between Kerr & Lacob, with Myers being stuck in the middle.
  • Bob Myers, GM for the entire dynasty run, has already rejected 2 extension offers from Lacob.
  • They're barely over .500 with 51 games played, fighting with a group of 9 other teams within 2.5 games of them to secure playoff seeds 4-6.
  • Their NetRtg is 20th in the league, by far the worst since 2011-12, except for 2019-20 where of course Steph and Klay were out for essentially the whole season (only 4+ games in Steph's case).
  • The Draymond punch was mostly papered over, but the incident lingers and could resurface from another trigger.
  • Draymond is 3 technical fouls away from being suspended with 31 games left to play.
  • Lamb can only play 8 more games over the final 31 unless they convert him.
It's a lot of baggage to try to salvage another championship run from.
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Re: The "we can't mortgage our future" argument is stupid 

Post#28 » by DonaldSanders » Thu Feb 2, 2023 8:32 pm

HiRez wrote:It's crazy that we have a championship team that feels like it's on the verge of total collapse.

  • Steph, Draymond, and Klay aren't done but they're all showing their age. It doesn't feel like they can play every day anymore, or play well for 35+ minutes in games that require it.
  • Iguodala is completely washed, dude should have retired already and be playing golf all day.
  • Draymond didn't get a contract extension (while the erratic Poole did) and you know he's stewing over that internally.
  • Moody and Wiseman aren't playable, whether it's because they completely suck or just haven't gotten a chance to play is hard to tell but it's wasted roster spots.
  • Kuminga has been playing some but Kerr basically wouldn't play him the first half of the year so he's behind where he should be now.
  • Meaningful trades are restricted because the value of our young guys is depressed, and our vets either we need them or their age and high contracts won't be that appealing to other teams.
  • The FRP we had to give up to move Iguodala means we can't offer a FRP in a trade for 2023, 2024, or 2025.
  • They are super deep into luxury and repeater taxes, so every dollar they add converts to something like $7, making even minor additions prohibitively expensive.
  • The salary structure is highly unbalanced between max contracts and cheap young guys, again making matching salaries for trades difficult (Wiseman and Moody are really the only 2 contracts in the middle).
  • There is clearly internal tension and dissent over the direction of the team between Kerr & Lacob, with Myers being stuck in the middle.
  • Bob Myers, GM for the entire dynasty run, has already rejected 2 extension offers from Lacob.
  • They're barely over .500 with 51 games played, fighting with a group of 9 other teams within 2.5 games of them to secure playoff seeds 4-6.
  • Their NetRtg is 20th in the league, by far the worst since 2011-12, except for 2019-20 where of course Steph and Klay were out for essentially the whole season (only 4+ games in Steph's case).
  • The Draymond punch was mostly papered over, but the incident lingers and could resurface from another trigger.
  • Draymond is 3 technical fouls away from being suspended with 31 games left to play.
  • Lamb can only play 8 more games over the final 31 unless they convert him.
It's a lot of baggage to try to salvage another championship run from.



Yeah this is a good encapsulation of where we're at. We miss the bench guys from last year, and the core guys look tired/older. The scariest part is the disharmony between Lacob and Myers/Kerr. I'm terrified that we may see Bob leave and a new GM (Kirk Lacob?) taking over and of course Steve would then depart.

Gotta be grateful for the amazing years we've gotten, but it's a bummer that Lacob has blocked going all in one more time on this core. This will be something we'll regret for years, we had a chance to repeat and the assets but we stood pat to be mediocre.
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Re: The "we can't mortgage our future" argument is stupid 

Post#29 » by ILOVEIT » Yesterday 7:29 pm

Chris Porter's Hair wrote:
SpreeS wrote:
Chris Porter's Hair wrote:So the goal is to make a trade that will make us substantially better within 10 games?


I dont know what kind of goals have FO or coaching staff. But be midd tear team and to sell low on young players who sitting on the bench not an option.

I honestly don't have any idea what you were trying to say here.


He's saying "Bob, chit or get off the pot!" lol

Seriously though....a move WOULD make this team better immediately.

Poole for Myles Turner would dramatically reshape the team into a tougher more defensive team.
Just an example but a substantial move for a impactful player would have immediate benefits. Personnel adjustments are huge.
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Re: The "we can't mortgage our future" argument is stupid 

Post#30 » by DAWill1128 » Yesterday 7:53 pm

The bridging of eras to keep this going I believe has went differently than we imagined. I think the franchise believed Wiseman would be an all-star like Chris Bosh type talent where he could eventually be that featured guy while the vets slid into more manageable roles. If that was the case I see Myers and the front offices vision. I don't know if anyone still sees that happening which dramatically changed the plan.

Kuminga may become that star type player. Let's say Kuminga became a Jaylen Brown type talent where he could produce numbers 82 games a year I think we are still contenders.

What the Spurs envisioned with Kawhi before relationships went south.

But the way things have played out is kind of unexpected. Poole the late first rounder is the best young player, challenge is with our roster construction it's not ideal. Poole is bad on defense, Curry is okay but getting older, Klay is fine but can't take the really quick guys anymore. So its a bit of a challenge on one end of the floor going forward.

If we do trade young assets the mindset has to be that the vets are all going to come off the books the same year, we need to get a max slot. The vets can fetch a lot of draft capital. At some point we probably need to go into an off-season where we got a lot of picks from trading the vets, a max slot to sign the top free agent, and a pitch on them coming to join Poole, Wiggins, Looney, maybe Kuminga as a max contract free agent and a team with a lot of draft capital.

I know the plan was probably to have the vets retire as Warriors but that was contingent imo on Wiseman or Kuminga becoming an all-star and to a lesser extent Moody becoming a solid starter level guy.

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