Miami Heat

[Twinkie defense]

Okay then Flash, how many first round picks come to the Warriors to relieve the Heat's luxury tax burden this year? I think Phoenix gave 2 to Seattle

[Chris Porter's Hair]

And CPH, in the scenario above, "Jason Williams for a 2nd round pick," wouldn't GS exercise their TPE to acquire Williams... then if a 2nd round pick needs to go to Miami as compensation, "something" else would need to come back to the Warriors to complete that part of the trade. Certainly something negligible, but something.

Unless I'm mistaken, no, that isn't how it works. And I'm pretty sure I've got this one right. The pick really is being traded for Williams in this case. The aptly named exception is then used to make an exception to the rules: normally trading a 2nd for Williams would be illegal due to cap constraints. The exception allows us to do it anyway.

Now one thing I've never quite understood is this: suppose you were right here, and we wanted to trade them a 2nd round pick (for whatever reason), and something had to come back in return. You can trade cash considerations up to some amount ($3m sticks in my head, but could be wrong). What I've been curious about was if there is anything to stop you from saying, "Golden State gives their 2008 2nd round pick to Miami for $3.50". Practically speaking, the question is more "do you ever need to worry about trading something for nothing, if you have some reason to want to do so and the cap allows you to do so?"

[Flash is the Future]

Okay then Flash, how many first round picks come to the Warriors to relieve the Heat's luxury tax burden this year? I think Phoenix gave 2 to Seattle

Try none

That trade was stupid for Phoenix. But they compensated Seattle because they knew they'd be late 1st round picks and because Seattle really doesn't need a guy like Kurt Thomas. Last time I checked, you guys need a backup PG

[EJS99]

They're trying Watson now and like what they see so far. If he continues to impress, backup pg won't be an issue.

[Twinkie defense]

Miami could have used Watson.

[FNQ]

They're trying Watson now and like what they see so far. If he continues to impress, backup pg won't be an issue.

I've never laughed at so much in so little...

"like what they see so far"

He can shoot. They like that. Fortunately they close their eyes at actual ball movement/defense.

"continues to impress"

Who? The casual fan who likes rooting for the underdog like its a feel-good movie? Gimme a break.

"backup PG won't be an issue"

Baron's out backup PG. He's also our 3rd string, followed by Jax, Jax, Barnes, Baron again, Croshere, Pietrus, then right about in this area is where Watson ranks among our actual playmakers...

That said, Mulson is already prepping for Watson's 3rd 10-day contract... then we can maybe make the playoffs, get bounced in the 1st/2nd round, sign Watson to a multi-year deal and pat ourselves on the back for finding a scrub in a scrub heap.

Where magic happens... Where the future happens... what a joke.

Where the same damn thing happens fits better...

[FGump]

Here's ALMOST the deal that needs to be made in my opinion. But it has one big snag that makes it not quite right.

At the deadline

GS trades to Miami...
Pietrus

Miami trades to GS ...
J Will
One minimum salary player (700K+)
$3M cash (should be enough to cover the balance of salary due for J Will and the min salary player for the rest of the year)
A future lottery-protected #1

GS loses Pietrus, loses all their TPE, gets a future #1

Miami loses a protected #1 out in the future ...and gets a net gain of about $10M in tax savings (part from tax no longer due, part from now being eligible for their share of the pie, and the $3M they send is salary they'd have had to pay anyhow, so it's just a wash) ....and also gets a player they've wanted for a year

The numbers are nice and neat. But it wouldn't fly because Miami wouldn't get Bird rights with Pietrus, and he'd just be a rent a player. (If they resigned him in the summer, they'd have to compete for his services in free agency and use their MLE - and they can just as easily do that if he stays in GS, so they've really gained nothing by trading for him.)

[Hoops23]

It doesn't makes sense to trade a future pick for Pietrus. Why would the heat give something that they can get for nothing this summer?

[FNQ]

The one big snag is that Jason Williams sucks and will do nothing to improve us... so we'll likely trade for him and then renounce the rights to Brandan Wright, who has yet to hit a 3. What a bust...

[FGump]

It doesn't makes sense to trade a future pick for Pietrus. Why would the heat give something that they can get for nothing this summer?

It wouldn't be just Pietrus they are getting. The $10M net they'd gain by getting under the tax line is very significant. For comparison, the cash value of a low #1 pick (as seen from when they are traded for cash) has always been about $3M.

[eden]

Everyone is missing the player on Miami that could actually help us.

A lot of people will think his salary is to high, to long (two more years), and weak def.

But a POB and Pie for Blount would help us a lot.
Could also get a 1st or 2nd from Mia.

He brings scoring down low, and a outside shot.
He is avg over 50% shooting last 8 games and 48.3 for the year.
He brings rebounds.
Playing with the rest of the W's would make his Def better.

I don't think the W's need another PG.
We need a big, if we are going to get past the first round.

[Thugleavy34]

[quote="510Reggae"][/quote]

You're making wayy too big a deal out of this. Watson's not the answer and unlike the one dude said most likely never will be at backup point, but his signing to a 10 day contract isn't the atrocity you make it out to be.

[-bob-]

if Phoenix had to give up two 1sts for LT relief then so should Miami. Miami can only trade one 1st cus they already traded one so give me a 1st + Dorell Wright.

[FNQ]

-= original quote snipped =-



You're making wayy too big a deal out of this. Watson's not the answer and unlike the one dude said most likely never will be at backup point, but his signing to a 10 day contract isn't the atrocity you make it out to be.

The signing itself? No.

The fact that it shows that management doesn't know what the hell its doing? Yes.

[Twinkie defense]

Gump's trade proposal makes some sense on both sides, but I'm not sold that adding Williams for the remainder will help the team win now more than just keeping Pietrus would.

Pietrus has his faults, to be sure. But he has earned some measure of trust from Nellie, and is getting some semi-productive PT as a result. And the Warriors need, desperately, to be able to field a decent rotation.

So if the Warriors do exercise that TPE, they HAVE to add a rotation player, not just gain a future pick.

But the Heat doesn't have to worry about renting Pietrus, he's already said he wants to play there, close to the islands or whatever. And Riley can just do another secret handshake deal.

[turk3d]

I agree with you on this Hester. No way is a broken down Williams with his larger salary worth it, especially for a 3rd stringer. We've already blown about a million on Thud as it is. No need to blow any more. As I said, I'd be willing to trade Ike's TPE for Murray (tomorrow is the last chance for Detroit), who I think would be better for us than CJ at much less than JWil and we would still have our big TPE to work with on a bigger deal should one become available down the road.

[FGump]

For you guys saying trading for JWill would be objectionable "'because of his salary" I ask you to again read the idea that was proposed and then answer: what salary? Part of the idea is to wait until the deadline where most of his salary has already been paid for the year, and then includes Miami sending enough cash to fully cover Williams' salary for the rest of the year, so that the W's get him for free.

The only question is whether you'd want to use a roster slot on him, but even if he wasn't worth it he's free so you can just cut him and pick up someone else. If you want to keep him or if you want to cut him, it's paid for either way.

[turk3d]

I just don't want him, Gump but I suppose that the way you put it (really doesn't cost us much) I'd go slomg with it but I'd want a draft pick at least. With Miami's season pretty much in the dumper, dumping salary would make sense I suppose. They were really asking a lot for him early in the season when many of us had an interest. CJ is on a 10 day, so replacing him with JWil wouldn't be a problem. The way I see it, the Heat need to make a move for a big player (with a big salary) and use JWil's expiring to make it with a team which is out of it already and try to improve to be at least good enough to make a playoff run or, do as you suggest and try and dump salary the way you've outlined.