Lepper's coming at us with a Dumars-GS trade rumor

[turk3d]

This is a horrible trade. Don't know if I'm saying anything new, but Billups is old. Its okay to be a 32 year old center or PF, but when you're a point guard, you better have some legs. I love Baron Davis, sure he's breaking down, but he's still a stronger player than Billups--and only has 1 year on his contract while Billups has 3.

Billups won't help us in the win column. Sure he can hit a tough shot, but over the course of 48 minutes, he's gonna be a defensive liability against quick athletic pgs here out west--Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Tony Parker, come to mind. Billups won't be able to get into the paint either.

Rasheed is over the hill and not the low post presence we would need. He's a taller Al Harrington. Maybe he rebounds better, but at his age, he's gonna be a guy who chooses his spots when to give effort--not a guy who's gonna bring energy.

Anyone who thinks that Maxiell will be better than anyone at 14 is just being lazy. Maxiell is a great energy guy off the bench and has a developing J, but he's only an opportunistic player and one knee injury away from being very mediocre. I'd take Speights, Rush, or Arthur over Maxiell.

Trading for aging stars like Billups and Wallace who have high media profiles is like buying stocks when they're starting to come down from their all time highs. Whats worse is that Billups and Wallace's values are probably even more inflated because they play for a well known team. Do any of you real Warrior fans remember when we signed BJ Armstrong to a big deal fresh off of his 3 championships with the Bulls? Everyone overvalued his ability just b/c he started for the Bulls and was voted into the All-Star game because of his high profile opportunity. Guess what, he SUCKED as a Warrior. Same exact deal happened again with D Fish a few years back. D Fish didn't earn his $6M a year. Do we really want to buy high and sell low yet again with Billups and Wallace?

So long story short--we would trade for equal-to-inferior players who have longer contracts. Billups is one of the most overrated players in the NBA. He's good when playing with the right players and the right system, but I guarantee you he's gonna be the exact same player as today's Sam Cassell by the time Billups would finish his Warrior tenure. And we would be stuck with crap contracts for 3 more years. Sounds lovely--I'm really looking forward to renewing my season tickets.

Billups although a few years older is probably more sturdy with Baron's injury problems and beside we probably aren't planning on keeping him anyway. Plus Billups salary is almost $7 Million less. Yes, I take a healthy Baron over Billups but not by very much and there's no guarntees you'll have a healthy Baron. Taking all the into consideration, and the fact that Rasheed expires next season, and we may not have to go into luxury tax even this year (all salaries balance out so we won't necessarily have to pay it) I'd have to go along with this one. Next year we'll be in a solid position and should be a playoff team both this year and many years to come. Billups has been one of the "iron men" in this league for a while now, is an established leader and a playoff veteran who with a young team of Monta, Beans, Jackson, Wright (and Rasheed for a year) leading the way. He won't have to put out as much (in the scoring department) as he's been used to with the high octane scoring machine as well as the style of basketball we play.

[J3x]

when did sjax and sheed play together? atl? for a game or 2?

im somewhat wanting to do this trade. if nash can play at his age now ( i think hes 34) i think billups would be serviceable for a couple years before monta fully takes over. sheed can be a low post presence that we need and also can spread the floor like al does. if maxiell or prince are in this it makes that much more gravy. prince can be our lock down defender next to jackson (if not traded) and maxiell can be the banger that we need against the bigger front lines.

if we do a pick swap, i say we pick up CDR if hes still around. he and monta would amke a pretty good backcourt with prince wright and beans manning the front lines

[bstein14]

Not huge on this trade either, we get older and we add too much salary that might put us over the Luxury tax when we re-sign Monta and Andris.

You are not getting too much salary.

Billups and Sheed make about $2.25 million less than Baron/Harington next year...

If you included the #14 for #29 swap you'd save even more.

One of the main reasons GS does this is to save money IMO. Obviously, Billups must be signed to a cheaper contract than what Davis was asking for in an extension.

Plus, in how many scenario's can you trade Baron Davis and still get an all-star PG back, and a huge expiring contract?

[turk3d]

Not huge on this trade either, we get older and we add too much salary that might put us over the Luxury tax when we re-sign Monta and Andris.

You are not getting too much salary.

Billups and Sheed make about $2.25 million less than Baron/Harington next year...

If you included the #14 for #29 swap you'd save even more.

One of the main reasons GS does this is to save money IMO. Obviously, Billups must be signed to a cheaper contract than what Davis was asking for in an extension.

Plus, in how many scenario's can you trade Baron Davis and still get an all-star PG back, and a huge expiring contract?

Not huge on this trade either, we get older and we add too much salary that might put us over the Luxury tax when we re-sign Monta and Andris.

You are not getting too much salary.

Billups and Sheed make about $2.25 million less than Baron/Harington next year...

If you included the #14 for #29 swap you'd save even more.

One of the main reasons GS does this is to save money IMO. Obviously, Billups must be signed to a cheaper contract than what Davis was asking for in an extension.

Plus, in how many scenario's can you trade Baron Davis and still get an all-star PG back, and a huge expiring contract?

I agree with you BStein. I think we would need to do the deal just the way you've outlined (if we do do it). We'd have to use Maxiel as well since the 4 major players don't get it done on Trade Checker due to Billups being BYC, which means that in all fairness (since Maxiel would have to be included) we'd need to give you our #14. Hoever, I also think it fair that we receive your #29 in return (which has already previously been mentioned).

Baron + Al + #14 for Sheed + Billups + Maxiel + #29 sounds like it to me.

[OzFraud]

Plus, Rasheed Wallace smokes cigarettes and that might be problem on a run and gun team like our Dubs.

[GswStorm3]

Not huge on this trade either, we get older and we add too much salary that might put us over the Luxury tax when we re-sign Monta and Andris.

You are not getting too much salary.

Billups and Sheed make about $2.25 million less than Baron/Harington next year...

If you included the #14 for #29 swap you'd save even more.

One of the main reasons GS does this is to save money IMO. Obviously, Billups must be signed to a cheaper contract than what Davis was asking for in an extension.

Plus, in how many scenario's can you trade Baron Davis and still get an all-star PG back, and a huge expiring contract?

Yeah I assumed Rasheed was making a lot more then 13 mil before looking it up and it turns out we would be taking back less salary.

Like Turk said, the pistons would have throw in Maxiel. Especially if we're going to take Billups and the 3 years/36 mil left on his contract taking away our future cap space next summer and making Monta wait longer for the starting reins at PG.

[turk3d]

Just got an interesting response post to mine on the trade board. Guy says that Billups BYC ends on July 1 (I haven't verified this). Does it mean that we'd want to do this trade after the 1st? If we did, then there's no need for Maxiel and we both keep our picks. Isnt' that the original deal being rumored (no Maxiel, no draft picks involved)? If any picks are included then we could do it pre-draft.

[Left*My*Heart]

Not huge on this trade either, we get older and we add too much salary that might put us over the Luxury tax when we re-sign Monta and Andris.

You are not getting too much salary.

Billups and Sheed make about $2.25 million less than Baron/Harington next year...

If you included the #14 for #29 swap you'd save even more.

One of the main reasons GS does this is to save money IMO. Obviously, Billups must be signed to a cheaper contract than what Davis was asking for in an extension.

Plus, in how many scenario's can you trade Baron Davis and still get an all-star PG back, and a huge expiring contract?

Warriors are adding salary. Baron is a huge expiring at 17.8 mil, while Wallace is 13.9. Billups contract is for 4 years and what I believe has a team option for the 4th season. Al has two years left on his contract. This trade isn't about saving money.

[bstein14]

It is about saving money when you consider what Baron wants for a contract extension.

If Baron wants a 4 year $60 million contract extension this saves GS a lot of money.

[Sid the Squid]

It is about saving money when you consider what Baron wants for a contract extension.

If Baron wants a 4 year $60 million contract extension this saves GS a lot of money.

Exactly...

An old Billups at this price is the perfect gaurd to play next to Monta for the next few years..

This is the perfect deal...Billups is a big gaurd who can handle either gaurd spot ..There's like 4 of those types in the world today that you can stick next to Monta and just let Monta be Monta..CB's perfect for us..We dont need Billups to be 28..We've got Monta.

[turk3d]

It is about saving money when you consider what Baron wants for a contract extension.

If Baron wants a 4 year $60 million contract extension this saves GS a lot of money.

Exactly...

An old Billups at this price is the perfect gaurd to play next to Monta for the next few years..

This is the perfect deal...Billups is a big gaurd who can handle either gaurd spot ..There's like 4 of those types in the world today that you can stick next to Monta and just let Monta be Monta..CB's perfect for us..We dont need Billups to be 28..We've got Monta.

+ + +

[roc]

Just got an interesting response post to mine on the trade board. Guy says that Billups BYC ends on July 1 (I haven't verified this). Does it mean that we'd want to do this trade after the 1st? If we did, then there's no need for Maxiel and we both keep our picks. Isnt' that the original deal being rumored (no Maxiel, no draft picks involved)? If any picks are included then we could do it pre-draft.

That was me and yeah the deal would have to be after the 1st.

I don't like the deal though and would absolutely hate it if Maxiell was added to boot.

[bstein14]

Before July 1st it works if you add in Maxiell...

After July 1st it works if its just Billups/Sheed for Harrington/Davis.

[roc]

Before July 1st it works if you add in Maxiell...

After July 1st it works if its just Billups/Sheed for Harrington/Davis.

Either way it doesn't work for me though.

I would rather explore other options as this downgrades us at 2 positions.

[Mylie10]

Odom jumpshot eFG = .400%
Wright jumpshot eFG = .406%

Odom is (was?) a fast, long guy who can handle the ball pretty well and can run like a wing.
Wright is a fast, long guy who can handle the ball pretty well and can run like a wing.


When we went to a 2-1-2 or whatever weird D where we stuck one in the middle, Wright played their quite a bit, and was very effective - guarding wings and even PGs for a little while. His length makes up for the difference in quickness - especially in stopping dribble penetration.

Do we want the guy to be our SF of the future? Probably not... but can he play there? Can Monta play PG?

Thanks Reggae.

Man when a guy goes to formulating paragraphs as a basis for argument on a Basketball message board, kind of proves my point about him. Putting the emoti-wink there doesn't make it cool, you are what you are.

Not saying Wright the future SF, but merely staying on the floor will if there's another option at 4 that may be better in stretches. Simple really.

[St.Nick]

Odom jumpshot eFG = .400%
Wright jumpshot eFG = .406%

Odom is (was?) a fast, long guy who can handle the ball pretty well and can run like a wing.
Wright is a fast, long guy who can handle the ball pretty well and can run like a wing.


When we went to a 2-1-2 or whatever weird D where we stuck one in the middle, Wright played their quite a bit, and was very effective - guarding wings and even PGs for a little while. His length makes up for the difference in quickness - especially in stopping dribble penetration.

Do we want the guy to be our SF of the future? Probably not... but can he play there? Can Monta play PG?

Thanks Reggae.

Man when a guy goes to formulating paragraphs as a basis for argument on a Basketball message board, kind of proves my point about him. Putting the emoti-wink there doesn't make it cool, you are what you are.

Not saying Wright the future SF, but merely staying on the floor will if there's another option at 4 that may be better in stretches. Simple really.

Yeah, I am what I am. And you are an oversensitive dolt that likely dropped out of school before basic grammar was taught. (If you want to throw insults around like we are on the playground, then dont act like a baby when it comes back your way).

With that being said, Brandan is not a SF. Just because he can D-up a guy from time to time doesnt mean that you want him out there for long stretches. He cant shoot well enough to be an effective wing, he cant keep up with MOST SFs on the perimeter, and it completely plays away from his strengths on the inside to have him at the SF position.

It sounds like you understand all this, so why the hissy fit after I pointed it out the first time? Oh right...oversensitive dolt. Never mind.

[floppymoose]

The fg% don't mean a lot right now. Wright wasn't be relied on to get tough baskets, and Odom was to some degree. If Wright gets as good as Odom, I'll be very happy.

[Mylie10]

Odom jumpshot eFG = .400%
Wright jumpshot eFG = .406%

Odom is (was?) a fast, long guy who can handle the ball pretty well and can run like a wing.
Wright is a fast, long guy who can handle the ball pretty well and can run like a wing.


When we went to a 2-1-2 or whatever weird D where we stuck one in the middle, Wright played their quite a bit, and was very effective - guarding wings and even PGs for a little while. His length makes up for the difference in quickness - especially in stopping dribble penetration.

Do we want the guy to be our SF of the future? Probably not... but can he play there? Can Monta play PG?

Thanks Reggae.

Man when a guy goes to formulating paragraphs as a basis for argument on a Basketball message board, kind of proves my point about him. Putting the emoti-wink there doesn't make it cool, you are what you are.

Not saying Wright the future SF, but merely staying on the floor will if there's another option at 4 that may be better in stretches. Simple really.

Yeah, I am what I am. And you are an oversensitive dolt that likely dropped out of school before basic grammar was taught. (If you want to throw insults around like we are on the playground, then dont act like a baby when it comes back your way).

With that being said, Brandan is not a SF. Just because he can D-up a guy from time to time doesnt mean that you want him out there for long stretches. He cant shoot well enough to be an effective wing, he cant keep up with MOST SFs on the perimeter, and it completely plays away from his strengths on the inside to have him at the SF position.

It sounds like you understand all this, so why the hissy fit after I pointed it out the first time? Oh right...oversensitive dolt. Never mind.

You can call me what you want Contrarian, I can take it.

I wasn't crying, but thought it funny that you'd use something as lame as forming paragraphs as a reason to make your point. Come on that is pretty childish.

I'm not saying that he should be an SF for his career. I'm saying that he needs to stay on the floor. and if situations dictate that he slides over then so be it.

I'm right, you're wrong. Because you said he is never and will never be an SF. He played there for some stretches last year (which proves you wrong) and he played well. His length makes him a nice mismatch. I wouldn't ask him to guard Richard Hamilton though.

Thanks for the grammar points. I guess you noticed I didn't point out your mispelling of a word on another Thread. Because I don't give an eff!

[turk3d]

No response to both Dirk and KG starting off their careers playing the 3? It worked for them, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work for Wright, at least on a part time basis. Both Dirk and KG played it fulltime. There's no reason why Wright couldn't get some 3 minutes, unless he somehow bombs. Heck, if Nellie can play Azebuike and Pietrus at 4 (and as starters) I don't see anything so strange about playing BWright at some 3. Mix it up a little. Not trying to get in the middle of your little spat, just do see why this is such a bad idea. I'd definitely prefer seeing BW at the 3 rather than the 5 and having to guard guys like Shaq and DHoward. That would be a good way to shorten his career.

[FNQ]

The fg% don't mean a lot right now. Wright wasn't be relied on to get tough baskets, and Odom was to some degree. If Wright gets as good as Odom, I'll be very happy.

True enough, but if you follow Odom's history long enough, you'll see he's been hovering around the .400% for quite a while... He started early in his career as a high30's % shooter, and now is more in the very low 40s... the point being, while Wright's not going to ever be relied on as a jumpshooter, his jumpshooting has become underrated, especially in comparison with other handling F's.

As for Wright playing the 3.... it wouldn't make sense if we only mismatch in the small direction. There would be a handful of SF's I could see giving Wright issues, but not many... that kid played great perimeter/midrange D as a SF last year, challenging shots and terminating dribbles.

No one's going to say "There goes Brandan Wright, the SF" - but he can definitely play there right now. And if you are trying to keep him not winded, its a pretty good idea to keep him out of the paint where he doesnt have to fight for position a lot.