Laker Fan hoping for the best

[joe.linnen]

I love when teams in my division do well. If you guys can get Elton Brand, I would like to see what a team of Ellis, Maggette, Jackson, Josh Smith, and Beans would do.

I really don't know how much cap you guys have but if you have enough cap space you should go after these two players. Josh Smith would be a perfect Power Forward for you guys, he can score, rebound, pass, and block. Hell he plays defence. Corey Maggette is one of those Shooting Guards that will get into the lane with no problem and will get to the line night in and night out.


SF:Jackson
PF:Smith
C:Beans
SG:Maggette
PG:Ellis



Let me know if yoy agree or disagree with what I've been think. Like I said I'm a Laker fan and you guys know your team a whole lot better than I do.

[turk3d]

For one, I would say swap positions between Jackson and Magguette. This is a possibility. Not so sure if Maggette's really someone we'd be targeting (at least not as first choice). There's also a lot of interest in Iguodal. As for Smith, many of us here (and the Ws FO I believe) have high hopes for Brandan Wright as our power forward and expect him to be given a chance start for us this year. With Wright and Harrington (if he's not traded) we would not be too terribly upset if we went into the season with them. We also have high expectations for our 2nd draft pick, Hendrix who will probably be our 3rd string PF and possibly as a backup Center. So with what Smith is likely going to cost, not sure if he's going to be our top target but he definitely will be seriously looked at. So that's my take on the subject.

[joe.linnen]

For one, I would say swap positions between Jackson and Magguette. This is a possibility. Not so sure if Maggette's really someone we'd be targeting (at least not as first choice). There's also a lot of interest in Iguodal. As for Smith, many of us here (and the Ws FO I believe) have high hopes for Brandan Wright as our power forward and expect him to be given a chance start for us this year. With Wright and Harrington (if he's not traded) we would not be too terribly upset if we went into the season with them. We also have high expectations for our 2nd draft pick, Hendrix who will probably be our 3rd string PF and possibly as a backup Center. So with what Smith is likely going to cost, not sure if he's going to be our top target but he definitely will be seriously looked at. So that's my take on the subject.

I see what your saying and I also like the idea of having Jackson at the 2 and Maggette at the 3. Lets say that Josh Smith get picked up by you guys would you have him play the 3 if Wright is a starter?

SF:Smith
PF:Wright
C:Beans
SG:Jackson
PG:Ellis

[turk3d]

I think if we got Josh, it's likely that Wright will likely be sent to Atlanta in a S & T for Josh (in order to facilitate the trade with Atlanta) unless we were somehow able to find a way to move Harrington.

A Smith/Wright/Hendrix array at Power Forward would be the best of both worlds (both youth + talent) but I'm not so sure Atlanta would consider it. Smith would most definitely (and probabky Wrigth) imo would play 4 for us. Anthony Randoph is expected to get a lot of time at the 3 position in addition to Jack and/or Bukie if we resign him. Also Magguette would probably be the starter if we someway managed to obtain him too.

Maybe a Al + Pietrus S & T + Warrior #1 (lottery protected) 2009 + #1 + 2011 #1 (top 10 protected) for Smith would get it done. I don't know. If Atlanta didn't want to pay Josh, we could also find some way to take some additional salary back (maybe throw in $3 Mil in cash if the salary difference wouldn't cover it) perahaps there's a way they'd consider it. It all depends on the Hawks willingenss to spend at this point.

[WarFan]

I really don't like the idea of trading for Smith, considering that I don't really want him in the first place. If we sign him outright, fine we've added another asset (who will be blocking our best prospects). If we're going to trade that much for a player I'd rather find a better fit at another position.

[joe.linnen]

I just don't know now. I want to help out but I just don't know. I really don't. I'm sure some of you don't want Al Harrington starting or do you? If so, what about this line up?

SF:Harrington
PF:Smith
C:Beans
SG:Jackson
PG:Ellis

[old rem]

As good as Josh S is he's only as old as Monta and still getting better. I doubt we'd add him + Maggette. Adding Smith means we offered more than the Sixers could and more than ATL wanted to. I really doubt there's a S+T scenario.

[GSWhoopfan]

Josh Smith turns a 17 win season into a 21 game win season, but even thats a reach.

[Chris Cohan]

Smith is one of the most overrated players in the league right now.

He stopped taking three pointers and started attacking the rim, helping him not look terrible. That was good. He has no shot. At all. He was about the worst in the league away from the hoop, two years running I believe. Someone else can look it up if they don't believe he's a terribly limited offensive player/brain. But he can sometimes penetrate and finish - if he doesn't turn the ball over - with the athleticism he makes his entire game off of right now.

He does not defend and is a Grade A moron. Actually watching him play might tone down the hyperbole his blocks seem to breed - he is clueless and has one defensive skill. It's hanging around, leaving his man, not blocking out, and going for the block if someone lets him. He fouls plenty but I agree, he's an incredible shot blocker. Very impressive 3 times a game. Unfortunately, the other 90-something possessions tend to offer just about zero resistance to the opponents' scoring progress. Smith is a classic bad defender with a hot stat. He is a TERRIBLE defender in the analysis that counts for serious winning. Much like Baron Davis for all but about 20-30 games of his Warrior tenure.

Some of us have seen Smith's very good games in which he limits his mistakes and all of his high-flying and risk-taking pays off without residual consequences, and they exist, but the same folks have seen his idiot games and if folks are not keyed in on what a liability he can be on TEAM defense and most offensive sets that require any thought, whatsoever, they're either intentionally ignoring it or issuing useless support for a severely limited flash player. You don't like Maggette, think he's a flash one dimensional guy on a bad team? Why you'd support Smith after two years of the flashy stats and little else is a total mystery. He remains an unforgivable turnover machine, as well.

His blocks and rebounds both declined - albeit by bare margins - and his scoring increased a hair due to staying within his strengths and learning not to hoist when defenses dared him to. He is not a great passer in general but is very good in transition, which would be good for the Warriors if we were guaranteed of being predicated on the break and the break alone for the next 5-10 years. I'll lay money we're not and in the half court, if you think Ellis will face some challenges early on, Smith may never surmount the myriad challenges confronting him.

He's a prototypical bad team stat stuffer who might make an All Star team if he sticks with the Hawks or another Easter Conference fringe team. What Sund may be doing, if he's to be a valuable hire at all, is shopping him for picks and a point guard since the smart money is on using Bibby's contract for shopping, too.

The Warriors have yet to be publicly linked to Smith, which could mean just about anything. But signing this kid to a major longterm deal is a GM-killing mistake some other desperate team should make. The athleticism is undeniable and he is an excitnig player, but offering him more money than we were willing to pay Richardson or Baron Davis would simply be a criminal screw up after all of the hard work done to clean up our finances and all of the luck we've had securing much higher percentage players like Wright and Randolph. Ellis and Biedrins are the leaders-in-waiting and Smith is a major distraction with a game custom made for early decline as his work ethic, focus, and raw intelligence fail to augment his speed and athleticism in meaningful ways.

[Sleepy51]

Smith is one of the most overrated players in the league right now.
. . . Smith is a major distraction with a game custom made for early decline as his work ethic, focus, and raw intelligence fail to augment his speed and athleticism in meaningful ways.

I've been down on Smith's IQ for some time now, but I will say that seeing him up close a few times, the athletic beastery is stunning. On some level, you have to account for him being a HS draftee playing for a rudderless, sailess, deckless and anchorless ship in Atlanta with no coaching to speak of, no long term plan, Joe Johnson's ugly selfish "Spreewell" years and no point guard. Josh might indeed be dumb, but playing in Atlanta the dumb kind of gets on everybody. I agree he's a BAD fundamental defender, he is not a lazy one. In his favor, moreso than dunking or blocks, he is that rare 100% effort guy at 6'10. Not quite Noah'esq, but you definitely see frustration in opposing bigs faces as he just won't stop moving more/faster than them.

When the Hawks played their sporadic good chemistry/unselish/marginally organized ball, Josh looked better . . . might be the chicken, might be the egg, but there still so much damn potential there if someone actually coaches him. Josh is what happens when good kids go to bad teams. He's no worse a player than Amare, but he's had the misfortune to gow up in the NBA playing retard-ball. I wouldn't overpay for josh, but he's not as bad as his Atlanta years will look at some point down the road.

However, he does have freakishly small hands . . . smells like cabbages. . .

[Chris Cohan]

He's far worse than Amare Stoudamire. This is not close. At all.

[GSWhoopfan]

Josh Smith plays better as a SF. Horford is going to claim the PF spot at 35-40 mpg. Hes going to be really good. But Marvin Williams is a better SF than Josh.

Josh is a perfect fit for ATL, because hes arguably the 3rd best player on the team (Johnson, Horford). He can play "no mans land" ball for ATL. If he comes to Oakland, hes gonna be getting "THE MAN" money and probably perform similar to Barry Zito. (ie: not a game changer/stuck here forever/getting "Free bread")

If he goes to Orlando, then he probably will succeed because Dwight Howard is just a monster. Howard/Smith might average 6-8 bpg. Josh Smith is built for sportscenter.

[Chris Cohan]

Today, we are on the same page GSWhoopfan. 100%.

[Sleepy51]

He's far worse than Amare Stoudamire. This is not close. At all.

Well . . . that was pretty much a throwaway line and the least significant part of my post, but I'll go on record as saying that the differences between the two are GREATLY exacerbated by the circumstances they have played in.

He deserves some consideration in that light. It's not a free pass for being dumb, but it matters.

[Chris Cohan]

Smith is super dumb. Amare is a lazy, frequently ineffective defender. But he has boatloads more talent than Smith and a far more refined skillset, as well.

Neither is ever 100% effort. Sorry. Your Smith line was a good one but ultimately full of holes like that "throwaway line."

The Smith apologists who mentioned nothing about his significant deficiencies until now will have their day in court. I'm not swayed in the slightest by the situational argument. Smith is a bag of rocks with a crazy vertical leap. Period.

[Sleepy51]

Smith is super dumb. Amare is a lazy, frequently ineffective defender. But he has boatloads more talent than Smith and a far more refined skillset, as well.

Neither is ever 100% effort. Sorry. Your Smith line was a good one but ultimately full of holes like that "throwaway line."

The Smith apologists who mentioned nothing about his significant deficiencies until now will have their day in court. I'm not swayed in the slightest by the situational argument. Smith is a bag of rocks with a crazy vertical leap. Period.

I'm on record bashing Josh back when you were just a twinkle in twinkie's eye. I don't have to prove my Smith-hate to you. I'm just saying that the smart/dumb case can be highly overstated, especially for kids unfortunate enough as to be drafted by Atlanta.

I'll share this with you. I was at the Hawks/Heat game down here, and Josh struck me for the first time as a thinker on the court. He was constantly communicating with teammates, constantly watching the entire floor, constantly even seeking out his coaches during time-outs to get instruction and feedback. The whole "sponge" attitude really struck me because I'll confess, I had a negative opinion of him as a "priveleged" HS draftee getting to play BMOC in his hometown (one of the dumbest sports towns in the USA.) He was just getting too easy an NBA life, so I made some natural assumptions about him.

It's just one game, but I saw a very different attitude than I expected. He seemed to be actively trying to take in everything that was happenning and process it, but maybe just lacking the foundation (HS draftee alert) to make sense of what goes on. I was strongly convinced that he gives a damn about understanding the game and improving, but hes been trapped in basketball special ed. I don't know jack about him off the court, maybe he's a miscreat to rival our own Jack, but on the court, I get the impression now that he more starved for instruction vs. malignantly stupid.

As to the effort level, I confess I ignore his perimeter doldrums because I feel he's being misused when asked to step out to the wing. I blame stupid coaching for that. When he's put at SF, he dogs it in the half court on both ends. It seems clear to me that he doesn't want to be a SF (maybe because he's learned he can't shoot for ). When they slide him down to the 4 he cranks up the intesity to meet the physical challenge against bigger bodies . . . consistently and impressively. He still doesn't know what he's doing, but in the paint, he does it as hard as he can.

But yeah, as a 3 he pretty much sucks ass.