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The Now vs. The Future

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Mac1958
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The Now vs. The Future 

Post#1 » by Mac1958 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:12 am

It's much easier to suffer through a horrible season when you know you have one of the greatest backcourts in NBA history coming back to join Draymond Green, (probably) Andrew Wiggins, and a top draft pick. And watching the kids develop has been great fun.

But Curry, Thompson and Green are all around 30 now, and here's my question: Would you agree that a "win now" approach be the right way to go, and that the first round pick would be best used as trade bait for an established (for example) defensive center or top-end shooter?

The window here may only be open for another two to four years, and I do wonder how much gas Draymond has left in the tank. Thoughts? And if so, who might work?
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Re: The Now vs. The Future 

Post#2 » by Little Digger » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:37 pm

Yes

Desperately need more length/size at the 5..
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Re: The Now vs. The Future 

Post#3 » by Warriorfan » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:00 pm

If you charge what GS does for tickets and merchandise you have to be now oriented if healthy
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Re: The Now vs. The Future 

Post#4 » by CaliWG » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:22 pm

If you can simultaneously win and prepare for the future you try to do it. Trading for Wiggins does both. Chriss’ development does both. Drafting #1 or #2 does not come around often, so if you get the chance you should take advantage to look to the future. And same with the T-Wolves ‘21/‘22 pick. The young guys can play a role on a winning team as they develop into the core for when Steph/Klay/Dray are beyond their primes. This is why the Spurs stayed good for so long. Robinson > Duncan > Kawhi.

Keeping youth on the roster helps balance salaries, it instills winning into the younger guys as they become the faces of the franchise, and it allows you to rest vets during the regular season because young guys can play a ton of minutes.
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Re: The Now vs. The Future 

Post#5 » by SpreeChokeJob » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:35 pm

I think management would like to do both which makes their job more difficult. There are a lot of constraints. I think they want to keep steph, klay, and dray here as older bench guys similar to spurs. So most of their moves revolve around them. If one of them were to be okay to be traded to nab a star for the team with the agreement they could come back anytime is the way I see them moving forward satisfying both sides. It probably make sense for them to make moves to accomplish both but it’s the past they have to look after.
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Re: The Now vs. The Future 

Post#6 » by Sam Lowry Jr » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:38 pm

CaliWG wrote:If you can simultaneously win and prepare for the future you try to do it. Trading for Wiggins does both. Chriss’ development does both. Drafting #1 or #2 does not come around often, so if you get the chance you should take advantage to look to the future. And same with the T-Wolves ‘21/‘22 pick. The young guys can play a role on a winning team as they develop into the core for when Steph/Klay/Dray are beyond their primes. This is why the Spurs stayed good for so long. Robinson > Duncan > Kawhi.

Keeping youth on the roster helps balance salaries, it instills winning into the younger guys as they become the faces of the franchise, and it allows you to rest vets during the regular season because young guys can play a ton of minutes.


I agree. This isn't binary. The Warriors can build a roster that can win now, but is also forward looking. If the 2021 and 2022 drafts are as good as advertised, I am not trading the pick they just acquired from the Wolves. If the Warriors are trading this year's top five pick for a vet, I hope they also get a lottery pick in the return package to draft someone like Toppin, Killian Hayes, or Halliburton.
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Re: The Now vs. The Future 

Post#7 » by Mac1958 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:47 pm

Sam Lowry Jr wrote:
CaliWG wrote:If you can simultaneously win and prepare for the future you try to do it. Trading for Wiggins does both. Chriss’ development does both. Drafting #1 or #2 does not come around often, so if you get the chance you should take advantage to look to the future. And same with the T-Wolves ‘21/‘22 pick. The young guys can play a role on a winning team as they develop into the core for when Steph/Klay/Dray are beyond their primes. This is why the Spurs stayed good for so long. Robinson > Duncan > Kawhi.

Keeping youth on the roster helps balance salaries, it instills winning into the younger guys as they become the faces of the franchise, and it allows you to rest vets during the regular season because young guys can play a ton of minutes.


I agree. This isn't binary. The Warriors can build a roster that can win now, but is also forward looking. If the 2021 and 2022 drafts are as good as advertised, I am not trading the pick they just acquired from the Wolves. If the Warriors are trading this year's top five pick for a vet, I hope they also get a lottery pick in the return package to draft someone like Toppin, Killian Hayes, or Halliburton.

Yeah, I can see that. It seems to me that the biggest need right now is a defensive, rim-protecting center, and I don't know if anyone in the draft would fit the bill over the next couple of seasons (as the core ages).

Wiseman, Oturu, Stewart, Carey? I don't know if they're worth taking, especially if a top-end shooter is available.
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The Now vs. The Future 

Post#8 » by Left*My*Heart » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:26 pm

I’m liking what the front office has been building on this season. The front office went after Wiggins, who they believe is the best small forward they could acquire this off season or via the draft.

They have some very young talent who are getting the best experience possible. They have resurrected Chriss, who is finally living up to his potential as a former lottery pick. Bowman looks as solid, if not better than Cook to me. Poole is looking more confident and getting some PG experience as well. Lee is playing solid minutes and has been a surprise to me. Smiley has a way to go, but the 19 year old shows a lot flashes of star quality potential.

Paschall gives the Warriors size and a physicality that few opposing players can match up to. I just don’t know what Kerr has in mind for him and I’m wondering if he has the capacity to learn. Seems we are seeing him become more and more inefficient on offense and his defense has never been up to the Warriors’ standards. I think he gets traded if the trends continue. I was hoping he could be Green’s backup.

The 2020 draft class I’m hoping for Wiseman, but would be okay with Edwards as well. It wouldn’t surprise me to see this pick traded, as our front office isn’t very excited about this draft class.


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Re: The Now vs. The Future 

Post#9 » by freypies » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:08 pm

I am perfectly fine with the win now approach. We have a top 10-ish player in terms of peak all time playing on our team right now, along with two great impact players in Draymond/Klay. You maximize any chances you have with them instead of hoping something maybe works out in the future.

Our pick + Minny's pick should put us in a solid spot to at least partially start preparing for the future. But the focus should be on the present.
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Re: The Now vs. The Future 

Post#10 » by Warriorfan » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:18 pm

Green Curry Thompson are now players. Add the TPE and MLE should be now players.

It leave 10 spots for players you want to be here 5 yrs from now.
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Re: The Now vs. The Future 

Post#11 » by SinceGatlingWasARookie » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:53 pm

Can Steph, Klay, Dray play close to their 2016 peak level? If they can play at 2016 level or even 2019 level then Warriors the Warriors have a shot at a championship. The Warriors were within striking range of the Raptors last year when injured Klay or KD played. The Warriors supporting cast last year was bad. But, last year's Raptors were were not a particularly strong championship team.

If I knew that Steph, Klay and Dray could not return to greatness then building for the future would be the answer. Steph, Klay, Dray could be 50 win also runs for the next 6 years and that would be fine. Or the Warriors 2 lottery picks plus the upside fantasy version of Wiggins could lead the Warriors to a championship 4 years from now with Steph, Klay and Dray being killer vets coming off bench.

How do you go for now? Trade Wiggins salary and 4 draft picks for what?

Keep Wiggins and draft picks and players for very good underpaid players? What very good underpaid players? With the salary cap the Warriors will have a hard time adding 3 very good players to join Steph, Klay and Dray.
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Re: The Now vs. The Future 

Post#12 » by Sam Lowry Jr » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:34 pm

I'm starting to think that the Warriors front office is changing its philosophy from trying to acquire another supernova star to "strength in numbers" again. Big 3 star teams only work if your Big 3 is young and you can run them heavy minutes, as depth will be heavily compromised to have 3 stars on the team.

Historically -- unless your name is John Stockton , Steve Nash or Jason Kidd -- small guards begin to decline by 31-32. Steph turns 32 next month. Isiah Thomas retired at 31. Steph isn't a durable 35+min/35 year year old Lebron.

Fortunately for the Warriors, there isn't a dominant dynasty type of 2014-2019 Warriors team they would have to compete against to make it out of the west. Lebron will be 36 next season. Memphis, Dallas and New Orleans are still relatively young. The Clippers seem to be lethargic even though they haven't won anything. A core of Steph, Dray, Klay and Wiggins with solid vet role players is enough to come out of the west the next 2-3 years.

I also do not think you should use the 2020 and 2021 Wolves' pick picks to draft for need. As others have mentioned, the "for need" spots can be filled out with vets with the MLE and TPE. The Warriors need to keep and use the picks in the upcoming 2-3 drafts to draft players with superstar potential --regardless of position -- that can take over in 4-5 years. That's the only way to go on a Spurs type of seamless competitive run for the upcoming 10 years.
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Re: The Now vs. The Future 

Post#13 » by floppymoose » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:58 pm

Mac1958 wrote:The window here may only be open for another two to four years, and I do wonder how much gas Draymond has left in the tank. Thoughts? And if so, who might work?


It's one to two years, tops. And it's much more of a long shot than it used to be, even pre-Durant. Green has fallen off the face of the earth. I still love him, but he is worse than ever at 3s and is also seriously groundbound. I think he is actually 38.

For that reason, I'm kind of agnostic on trading the pick. If it looks like we can put together a contender by doing so, ok. But no half measures. If there isn't the right player available, start drafting for the post-peak-Curry era.
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Re: The Now vs. The Future 

Post#14 » by TB » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:14 pm

Sam Lowry Jr wrote:I'm starting to think that the Warriors front office is changing its philosophy from trying to acquire another supernova star to "strength in numbers" again. Big 3 star teams only work if your Big 3 is young and you can run them heavy minutes, as depth will be heavily compromised to have 3 stars on the team.

Historically -- unless your name is John Stockton , Steve Nash or Jason Kidd -- small guards begin to decline by 31-32. Steph turns 32 next month. Isiah Thomas retired at 31. Steph isn't a durable 35+min/35 year year old Lebron.

Fortunately for the Warriors, there isn't a dominant dynasty type of 2014-2019 Warriors team they would have to compete against to make it out of the west. Lebron will be 36 next season. Memphis, Dallas and New Orleans are still relatively young. The Clippers seem to be lethargic even though they haven't won anything. A core of Steph, Dray, Klay and Wiggins with solid vet role players is enough to come out of the west the next 2-3 years.

I also do not think you should use the 2020 and 2021 Wolves' pick picks to draft for need. As others have mentioned, the "for need" spots can be filled out with vets with the MLE and TPE. The Warriors need to keep and use the picks in the upcoming 2-3 drafts to draft players with superstar potential --regardless of position -- that can take over in 4-5 years. That's the only way to go on a Spurs type of seamless competitive run for the upcoming 10 years.


Good post.

The Spurs thing is fun to look at... we sort of compare to the 08-09-10 Spurs timeframe of the dynasty.

Duncan and Manu over 30, still in prime.... similar to Steph and Dray
Parker in prime... similar to Klay
Finley and Bowen about done.... similar to Iggy, Livingston, etc

They still competed for a few years, but it wasn't until Leonard, Green and a few younger role players stepped up for them to get back to the finals in 2013 and 2014.

Just need wiggins and a pick to fill the Leonard/Green role, stepping up to be on par with our big 3. Then a couple of our young guys like Paschall, Chriss, Poole, etc to be able to provide minutes the way Mills, Diaw, Splitter, and Marco did.

Or.... trade it all for Giannis. 8-)
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Re: The Now vs. The Future 

Post#15 » by SpreeChokeJob » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:21 am

Bottom line they need Giannis to continue the dream. Or else nab a generational player in the draft.

After that the rest is just conversation.
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Re: The Now vs. The Future 

Post#16 » by Little Digger » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:00 am

Just for the Love of our pretend God, don’t draft for need
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Re: The Now vs. The Future 

Post#17 » by floppymoose » Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:11 am

Little Digger wrote:Just for the Love of our pretend God, don’t draft for need


Yes! Speaking of which, remember this?

Q: Can you see yourself playing with Curry in the backcourt?

-ELLIS: I can’t answer that. Us together? No.

-Q: Why not?

-ELLIS: Can’t. We just can’t.

-Q: Too small? Too similar?

-ELLIS: Just can’t.

-Q: The Warriors say you can.

-ELLIS: They say we can? Yeah. If they say it. But we can’t.

-Q: You wouldn’t want to give it a shot?

-ELLIS: I just want to win. That’s… not going to win that way.
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Re: The Now vs. The Future 

Post#18 » by azwfan » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:31 pm

Now or Future?
Yes.
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Re: The Now vs. The Future 

Post#19 » by Phase 3 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:49 pm

Keep the pick unless it’s being traded in a package for a legit star.
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Re: The Now vs. The Future 

Post#20 » by rtiff68 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:21 pm

This will probably seem like a bit of a cop-out, but I’m not sure you can really answer that question generically.

If you’re able to package this year’s 1st, Minny’s 2021/22, and/or whatever for a player or players that make you the prohibitive favorite or close to it for the next 2-3 years, then you do it. There isn’t currently a generational type of prospect coming down the pipeline, so anything outside of Curry and Klay is tradeable in theory.

That said, we shouldn’t move our draft capital simply to snag the best veteran(s) we can get. If the deal isn’t right, take the BPA and count on your culture, staff, infrastructure, etc. to develop said player.

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