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WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1 

Post#1361 » by DonaldSanders » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:09 am

WarriorGM wrote:
Standard press release stuff. This is another one of my problems with Kerr. Not that I listen to him all that closely—I don't—but I haven't really heard a comment from him that struck me as genuinely heartfelt or the kind of thing one goes out of the way to say due to authentic appreciation. I might be unfair but it all sounds by the numbers with him. I haven't heard anything from Kerr remotely close to the praise Morey heaped on Harden which he further backed up by trying to trade for him at the first opportunity and get him on the Sixers.


I think you have not developed a good read on Steve, possibly because you don't listen to him that much/closely. The more you learn about him you'll find he is a genuinely good person, partly because of a lot of the adversity & unique experiences he had in life. He cares about people and his players. I think Steve meant every word he said in the interview I linked.

Coaches don't have to sound over the top like Morey to say something nice. If anything Morey went too far with his praise for Harden, it bordered on being fanboy and potentially turning off other players. Morey was also likely trying to get James while on the 76ers.



Stephen Curry has made Kerr look like a genius. But I wouldn't be at all surprised from what I've seen so far of Kerr if after all is said and done that he is going to say that he thinks Michael Jordan is the greatest player to ever play, LeBron is the greatest player of this era and Durant is the best player he's ever coached. He's a traditionally minded orthodox guy despite his innovation which he largely swiped from others and he says whatever he thinks is the popular thing to say. Despite having cultivated the image of a woke guy—and to be fair he probably is to a degree—he's not going to be the guy who sends out a tweet like the one that got Morey in hot water.


Nah Mark Jackson is the one who showed us the true genius of Steve Kerr. How long have you been watching the Warriors?

From 2nd round exit w/ Jackson's abusive ways and archaic scheme to winning our first championship since the 1970s with some of the most beautiful basketball that has ever been played. Steve Kerr was the big difference, unless you think adding Shaun Livingston and Barbosa while losing Jermaine O'Neal (positive BPM and VORP in the playoffs) really pushed the needle that much.

DonaldSanders wrote:Javale left for the same money and more playing time on a LeBron James contendor. Sometimes the reasons for someone leaving aren't a grievance with the former team. Javale re-vitalized his career playing here, I'd say he had a good experience and just moved on to a better opportunity.


WarriorsGM wrote:Which is extremely odd if you take a moment to think about it. When I first heard the news I mentally congratulated him because I presumed he was leaving due to an increase in salary. When I heard it was just for the same amount I was gobsmacked. Why leave??? What's a LeBron contender next to the greatest team of all-time? LeBron might even be considered "the enemy". I haven't heard anything close to a rational answer yet from any of you that explains it.


This was already explained; My answer was/is both rational and true. Javale's playing time doubled while still being on a contender. He got the same money, a championship in the 2nd year, and between 70-120% more playing time. This is a weird pattern with you -- you get a very good answer then you claim "nobody has answered this rationally." If this keeps up I'd just have to stop responding to you.

I can find articles that talk about Javale wanting more money and playing time, here is one:
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/report-javale-mcgee-unhappy-warriors

Please find an article that talks about Javale not liking Kerr and finding him "cold"

Instead I find articles like this:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2782939-javale-mcgee-on-free-agency-hopefully-im-with-warriors-for-rest-of-my-career

""I haven't thought about [another team] mainly because, hopefully, in my mind, I'm a Warrior for the rest of my career," McGee said, per ESPN.com's Chris Haynes. "If that happens, it would be a blessing.""
- Mcgee in 2018 after playing his final game as a Warrior and winning a championship.


https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/javale-mcgee-on-his-career-evolution-big-man-producing/id1446252794?i=1000508187966

"It was extremely gratifying winning and contributing to a championship"

Doesn't sound disgruntled at all, sounds the opposite.

15 minutes in, in his own words he says he left to try to get a bigger role and more playing time. At no point does he blame Steve Kerr. He says he was told he will not be the starter if he re-signed and signed with the Lakers to start.

If everything is fine and dandy between the Warriors and JaVale why doesn't the team invite him on the team now or whenever he becomes a free agent? Or why not even make a play for him? He knows the system. He's played with Steph and Draymond before and looked good with them. He'd probably be cheap to acquire. He should be very kindly disposed towards the Warriors for reviving his career. So why not? What's stopping this obvious pickup? But there's not a peep of him rejoining. Explain that.

There were trade rumors that we might go after Javale this year, I guess you weren't paying attention. Use google. We're not gonna consider trading for someone if they are considered to not like our head coach and not want to be here.

Javale seems to like us in interviews too.
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He confirms that his time with the Warriors changed people's false perceptions of him for the better.

DonaldSanders wrote:KD wanted more isolation, but what he wanted most was more credit for winning. He couldn't get that in GS anymore.


Fair enough. But that's just regurgitating previous answers.


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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1 

Post#1362 » by michaelm » Thu Apr 8, 2021 8:58 am

I have to say I do think Kerr did not like Javale overly as a player and underplayed him in the opinion of more than a few GSW fans including mine. It is hard to believe, again imo, that he would not have been useful both this year and in 2019.

It is still the case nevertheless, fairly or unfairly, that other coaches haven’t rated him either hence his current situation and situation prior to joining GSW.
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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1 

Post#1363 » by michaelm » Thu Apr 8, 2021 9:12 am

WarriorGM wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:McGee didn't like Kerr and left. KD didn't like Kerr and left.


You lose what little credibility you have when you state these opinions as though they are fact. You have no idea if they are true or not but that doesn't seem to matter to you. What is true, that you don't seem to realize, is that both Bell and Jones have little talent and haven't been able to stick with any NBA team.


And you lose what little credibility you have when you fail to answer my question:

Stephen Curry is the best player in the NBA. Agree or disagree?

Everyone on here is a huge Curry fan, whether or not they choose to match you for hyperbole.

I have given you my opinion that he is the best player to be the cornerstone of a great team, and was so for a strong contender for the best team of all time, which makes him the best player imo. Whether he could take a team of indifferent quality to a loss further along in the play-offs than other players such as LeBron is a different question and the basis of arguments against him by LeBron partisans, but if having a team which can win the title is the priority as should be the case imo and I presume yours then this is not of major relevance.
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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1 

Post#1364 » by michaelm » Thu Apr 8, 2021 9:25 am

WarriorGM wrote:
Sleepy51 wrote:I am not going to invest anybody my time in an advanced stats context lesson about Jordan Dumbassed Bell. He's a bum and he wouldn't show up for fookin practice.


It may indeed be the case that Bell was a hopelessly self-absorbed headcase who was doomed to crash out of the league one way or another. But I cannot help but get the feeling from the stories I've heard that he was in some ways set up to fail and that the coaching staff displayed no interest and exerted no effort at all in trying to get him to succeed beyond just the defined parameters of their job.

The coaches say that a practice is optional. Bell takes the statement literally and doesn't read between the lines. Perhaps this is a legitimate tactic that the coaches employ to weed out players who have the work ethic they are looking for and separate them from lazy sloths who won't work on their game. But it does have duplicitous characteristics and disadvantages people who just aren't savvy.

Then there was the prank incident where Bell was enticed to put himself in a compromising situation in the name of a prank. Yes it showed he was immature and that he displayed very poor judgment. But it had nothing to do with playing basketball.

One can easily imagine both these incidents earning Bell a place in Kerr's doghouse. I am concerned though that both of them look like traps. They are games being played akin to office politics and related to being a favorite or not of the coaching staff. Did Kerr just form a negative opinion of Bell and that was that and Bell was doomed on the Warriors from then on? Or did Kerr put in some effort and take Bell aside after the first faux pas and tell him directly what was expected of him and how he would succeed or fail without all the mind games? If the former I consider that a failure on Kerr's part. In my view the coaching staff should have recognized Bell's talent and given him the best opportunity to succeed. If they on the other hand took the line that Bell is an adult and it's not their job to get him to succeed and he wasn't worth exerting any effort to do so then I see that again as a failure on the part of the coaching staff.

Take the above and then add the following:

McGee didn't like Kerr and left. KD didn't like Kerr and left. As a fan of Steph I view Kerr as far too business-like in his relationship with Curry.

There is a coldness to Kerr that I'm not comfortable with.


On the other hand perhaps Bell was an example of what you contend about others connected with GSW, someone who considered himself better than he was in reality because he was on Steph Curry’s team.
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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1 

Post#1365 » by WarriorGM » Thu Apr 8, 2021 10:49 am

michaelm wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
You lose what little credibility you have when you state these opinions as though they are fact. You have no idea if they are true or not but that doesn't seem to matter to you. What is true, that you don't seem to realize, is that both Bell and Jones have little talent and haven't been able to stick with any NBA team.


And you lose what little credibility you have when you fail to answer my question:

Stephen Curry is the best player in the NBA. Agree or disagree?

Everyone on here is a huge Curry fan, whether or not they choose to match you for hyperbole.

I have given you my opinion that he is the best player to be the cornerstone of a great team, and was so for a strong contender for the best team of all time, which makes him the best player imo. Whether he could take a team of indifferent quality to a loss further along in the play-offs than other players such as LeBron is a different question and the basis of arguments against him by LeBron partisans, but if having a team which can win the title is the priority as should be the case imo and I presume yours then this is not of major relevance.


It's great that you can speak bluntly for yourself. There's no need though for you to speak on behalf of others. Nor should you. They are all big boys; I'm sure they can speak for themselves. When I ask one of these people who appear upset with me for some reason it is to know where exactly they stand and they are in the best position to explain themselves. You and Chris Porter's Hair don't need to save them.

I take very strong exception though to your suggestion that I'm engaging in hyperbole. I do not think so in the least. If anything I'm not being forceful enough about it. What I think is the majority of people on this board that I see are rather meek in their support of Curry. Half-assed the way Kerr's is when it shouldn't be. The level of support too often going from risible, to disgraceful, to disgusting. But hey that's just my opinion.

At this point Curry is synonymous with the Warriors. His personal legacy will probably say as much about the Warriors as things the entire next generation of future Warriors do. It is in the interest of the Warriors that he is put in the best light. Winning a championship when you have such an icon still playing therefore needs to be put in context. It's like the 73-win record. Does it mean nothing without the ring? Or does it mean far more than just a ring? The same will apply to whatever Curry has left to achieve.


michaelm wrote:On the other hand perhaps Bell was an example of what you contend about others connected with GSW, someone who considered himself better than he was in reality because he was on Steph Curry’s team.


Maybe he considered himself better than he really was outside Curry's team. But my point is that there were indications that he really was better because he was on Curry's team. The coaching staff didn't value that and threw him away.

For comparison Draymond Green considers himself the best defender ever. Do you think he would be or would have been outside the Warriors? But on the Warriors do you think he made a respectable case? How much effort should the coaching staff exert to keep him?
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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1 

Post#1366 » by WarriorGM » Thu Apr 8, 2021 1:26 pm

DonaldSanders wrote:Please find an article that talks about Javale not liking Kerr and finding him "cold"


One moment JaVale says he wants to be a Warrior for life; the next he's off to the Lakers and he's not even getting paid more.

There is what a person says and then there is what a person does. In determining the truth what do you put more value on?

Was it all because he wanted more playing minutes? I guess using the most generous interpretation that's what it comes down to. But who was restricting his minutes? Guess who! Why of course it was Kerr.

https://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/Warriors-JaVale-McGee-keeps-dwindling-playing-12440010.php

In a nutshell if there is a reason JaVale is not on the team anymore—a team he said he'd love to be on for the rest of his career—it is because Kerr was unwilling to give him more minutes. I'm sure in your minds that somehow caused JaVale to have great feelings of love and warmth towards Kerr. But somehow I'm not so sure.

Then there is also this wrinkle:

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/10/24/lakers-center-javale-mcgee-says-hes-been-unfairly-judged-for-having-asthma/

I wonder who he feels has been judging him? Why don't you try to connect the dots?
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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1 

Post#1367 » by DonaldSanders » Thu Apr 8, 2021 4:26 pm

WarriorGM wrote:
DonaldSanders wrote:Please find an article that talks about Javale not liking Kerr and finding him "cold"


One moment JaVale says he wants to be a Warrior for life; the next he's off to the Lakers and he's not even getting paid more.

There is what a person says and then there is what a person does. In determining the truth what do you put more value on?

Was it all because he wanted more playing minutes? I guess using the most generous interpretation that's what it comes down to. But who was restricting his minutes? Guess who! Why of course it was Kerr.


That's not disliking Steve or finding him cold. That's playing time like I said the first time. You're a bad faith arguer.




https://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/Warriors-JaVale-McGee-keeps-dwindling-playing-12440010.php

In a nutshell if there is a reason JaVale is not on the team anymore—a team he said he'd love to be on for the rest of his career—it is because Kerr was unwilling to give him more minutes. I'm sure in your minds that somehow caused JaVale to have great feelings of love and warmth towards Kerr. But somehow I'm not so sure.

Then there is also this wrinkle:

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/10/24/lakers-center-javale-mcgee-says-hes-been-unfairly-judged-for-having-asthma/

I wonder who he feels has been judging him? Why don't you try to connect the dots?


I already linked you to what Javale himself has said. He felt the Warriors helped clear up false things about him. You probably didn't even bother watching the video or listening to the podcast. Javale liked his time on the Warriors, he wanted to start.

Your narrative has no basis and has been thoroughly debunked.
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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1 

Post#1368 » by Sleepy51 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 6:21 pm

Just wanted to remind everyone that we do have an ignore list function.

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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1 

Post#1369 » by WarriorGM » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:31 pm

DonaldSanders wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:
DonaldSanders wrote:Please find an article that talks about Javale not liking Kerr and finding him "cold"


One moment JaVale says he wants to be a Warrior for life; the next he's off to the Lakers and he's not even getting paid more.

There is what a person says and then there is what a person does. In determining the truth what do you put more value on?

Was it all because he wanted more playing minutes? I guess using the most generous interpretation that's what it comes down to. But who was restricting his minutes? Guess who! Why of course it was Kerr.


That's not disliking Steve or finding him cold. That's playing time like I said the first time. You're a bad faith arguer.


I find your accusation that I am arguing in bad faith as displaying bad faith itself. To whom am I supposedly displaying bad faith? Kerr? I do not see myself as owing Kerr anything. I do not consider myself under any obligation to paint him in a positive light. You think I am showing bad faith to you? Why? I am presenting one interpretation of events. Disagree with it if you wish. But I am using facts available to all of us to construct my case. If you do not like the conclusions because they cast a different light on what you thought was a sunny situation, that's too bad but that's how real life is sometimes. Don't shoot the messenger.

DonaldSanders wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:https://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/Warriors-JaVale-McGee-keeps-dwindling-playing-12440010.php

In a nutshell if there is a reason JaVale is not on the team anymore—a team he said he'd love to be on for the rest of his career—it is because Kerr was unwilling to give him more minutes. I'm sure in your minds that somehow caused JaVale to have great feelings of love and warmth towards Kerr. But somehow I'm not so sure.

Then there is also this wrinkle:

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/10/24/lakers-center-javale-mcgee-says-hes-been-unfairly-judged-for-having-asthma/

I wonder who he feels has been judging him? Why don't you try to connect the dots?


I already linked you to what Javale himself has said. He felt the Warriors helped clear up false things about him. You probably didn't even bother watching the video or listening to the podcast. Javale liked his time on the Warriors, he wanted to start.

Your narrative has no basis and has been thoroughly debunked.


Debunked because? Because JaVale said nice things?

As I have already explained there is what people say, and then there is what people do. His words don't debunk anything when his actions say otherwise. Indeed in this case some of his other words support my contention. It is unnatural to leave what one would consider a dream job without ill feeling if one felt compelled to.
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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1 

Post#1370 » by FNQ » Thu Apr 8, 2021 8:22 pm

Funny that I cant find a single quote about Kerr talking about his asthma. His asthma was specifically mentioned in a couple cases: playing for Denver (altitude) and playing in the bubble (COVID).

The Warriors, if anything, resurrected McGee's career and got him back on the non-minimum path. I'd really love to bring him back too, he's actually an ideal fit
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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1 

Post#1371 » by WarriorGM » Thu Apr 8, 2021 8:44 pm

FNQ wrote:Funny that I cant find a single quote about Kerr talking about his asthma. His asthma was specifically mentioned in a couple cases: playing for Denver (altitude) and playing in the bubble (COVID).

The Warriors, if anything, resurrected McGee's career and got him back on the non-minimum path. I'd really love to bring him back too, he's actually an ideal fit



So it might seem. But after thinking about it further it actually isn't an ideal fit from the development point of view. Presuming there is no animosity between JaVale and Kerr and McGee comes back, will McGee really be able to play more minutes? If developing Wiseman is the priority does it make sense for McGee to be taking minutes away from Wiseman? It will just recreate the same fault lines as before.
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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1 

Post#1372 » by Old_Blue » Thu Apr 8, 2021 8:49 pm

FNQ wrote:FThe Warriors, if anything, resurrected McGee's career and got him back on the non-minimum path. I'd really love to bring him back too, he's actually an ideal fit


I think a lot of us feel the same way. His chemistry with the team was awesome.

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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1 

Post#1373 » by FNQ » Thu Apr 8, 2021 8:56 pm

Old_Blue wrote:
FNQ wrote:FThe Warriors, if anything, resurrected McGee's career and got him back on the non-minimum path. I'd really love to bring him back too, he's actually an ideal fit


I think a lot of us feel the same way. His chemistry with the team was awesome.

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ahhh thats hilarious

For a part timer, he became one of my favorite Warriors ever so quick. Everything about him too, even when he occasionally Shaqted, he more than made up for it. Rooting hard for the reunion
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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1 

Post#1374 » by HiRez » Thu Apr 8, 2021 8:57 pm

Kerr: take like 3 games and run the hell out of a Curry-Wiseman pick and roll, I would love to see what happens with that experiment. Because I think it would pay off on the scoreboard and really be good for Wiseman's confidence. With Wiseman's ability to cover a lot of ground in one step without putting the ball on the floor, and receive lobs defenders can't get to, and obviously Curry's ability to do what he does...if they have to start guarding Wiseman, there's so many possibilities.

They've had some proven success with this a few plays this year, but it's just so rare to see it called in Kerr's system, I don't understand why they refuse to run it more. If you really want to get Wiseman involved in the offense, put him in simple situations where he can use his physical gifts to dominate and not overthink things. It seems like when the ball is just hopping around the perimeter, Wiseman's stuck away from the action and not quite sure what he's supposed to be doing. Then someone dumps the ball in to him like 12 feet out and that's a bad situation for him, usually resulting in a jumper (which he's OK at but not great), or some kind of hook shot which usually ends badly.
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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1 

Post#1375 » by SAKURABA216 » Fri Apr 9, 2021 4:15 am

WarriorGM wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:
sonnyhill wrote:
Astute analysis and really good post.


and where are Jones and Bell now? Did every team they subsequently go to drop the ball as well or did the Warriors screw them up so badly that they are forever ruined?

The Warriors coaching staff did not even have an offseason with JW and no training camp or preseason. Give them an offseason before making such statements.


You ask "Did the Warriors screw them so bad that they were forever ruined?" I get the feeling you think the answer is "Of course not, Jones and Bell just didn't have the talent." But you know what? We really don't know, and now that you brought it up, if we're being honest it is a possibility. The first team an NBA player is on can really set the tone for that player's career.

If I'm not mistaken James Wiseman has now played more NBA minutes with the Warriors this season than Damian Jones played in all his three seasons with the team combined. Is he better than Jones yet? Jones may have been let go by the Lakers in his last stint after they signed Drummond but his play on that team from what I can tell couldn't be characterized as him being a black hole. When Jones was with the Dubs I thought he should have gotten more playing time to prepare him better. Unfortunately for him he had that injury during that critical last year with the team and he never really got back after that.

Jordan Bell had the highest plus-minus in one of the most important games in recent Warriors history. Anyone who remembers Game 7 of the Rockets series in 2018 should remember that Bell was the guy that tag-teamed with Steph during the latter part of the game to bring the Warriors back from the brink. That to me is evidence of chemistry with Steph in the most critical of times. I have no idea why the coaching staff did not seem to recognize it and was completely oblivious to it and willing to just throw it away with no noticeable effort exerted to make use of the potential chemistry that was uncovered. They let him languish on the bench and that's where he's been ever since until he finally fell off of even that.

As I recall the problem with Jones and Bell when they were here and that we're now seeing with Wiseman was that they were fouling like crazy like rookies and they never got better. It should be a concern that they have such similar bad traits.

The fact of the matter is that there is zero evidence that this team knows how to develop young athletic bigs. Nearly all the bigs that have had success with this team such as Bogut, Pachulia, and McGee developed their skills elsewhere. Looney would be the exception but he isn't an athletic big. He is a big in the Bogut and Pachulia mold. The only athletic big that has had success with this team is McGee and he left for what I find to be inexplicable reasons, the only hints being dissatisfaction with Kerr with his limited usage prior to leaving. The Warriors would probably love to have McGee now on the team. Maybe fans should ask more insistently "So why isn't he here?"

In all the failed cases the trail leads back to Kerr. You guys who idolize him will have to open your eyes.

You make a pretty good point about this team not being able to develop bigs. I hope they bring in Chris Bosh this off-season to coach Wiseman.


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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1 

Post#1376 » by Mylie10 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:24 pm

Sleepy51 wrote:Just wanted to remind everyone that we do have an ignore list function.

That is all


I can’t ignore this.....I need popcorn!

Trying hard no to jump in
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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1 

Post#1377 » by Mylie10 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:28 pm

HiRez wrote:Kerr: take like 3 games and run the hell out of a Curry-Wiseman pick and roll, I would love to see what happens with that experiment. Because I think it would pay off on the scoreboard and really be good for Wiseman's confidence. With Wiseman's ability to cover a lot of ground in one step without putting the ball on the floor, and receive lobs defenders can't get to, and obviously Curry's ability to do what he does...if they have to start guarding Wiseman, there's so many possibilities.

They've had some proven success with this a few plays this year, but it's just so rare to see it called in Kerr's system, I don't understand why they refuse to run it more. If you really want to get Wiseman involved in the offense, put him in simple situations where he can use his physical gifts to dominate and not overthink things. It seems like when the ball is just hopping around the perimeter, Wiseman's stuck away from the action and not quite sure what he's supposed to be doing. Then someone dumps the ball in to him like 12 feet out and that's a bad situation for him, usually resulting in a jumper (which he's OK at but not great), or some kind of hook shot which usually ends badly.


Well he’s done it two games in a row. Maybe not at an extreme level, but he IS doing it more now. And it seems as you said, that Wiseman is feeling more comfortable.

No matter which direction Kerr goes, motion versus pnr, you should never do one style the entire game anyhow.

Every single way you shake it in the NBA, it’s matchups. You run different things at different times.
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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1 

Post#1378 » by cdubbz » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:17 am

Loved aka ale McGee as a Warrior and thought he should have played a bit more! Dude knows his role and plays it pretty well. Wish we never let him walk.

Wiseman & McGee/Chriss isn’t a bad C rotation.
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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1 

Post#1379 » by wco81 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:40 am

Hope that knee injury isn’t serious but it looked unfortunately familiar to another injury where the knee buckled as he landed.
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Re: WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1 

Post#1380 » by Cactus Jack » Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:00 pm

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