Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[AirP.]

The only way JK's salary would become an issue is if the Nets give him something over 35M. But in lieu of that he's most likely coming back. I don't think we're getting a player for the full mle that would be better than JK, so unlikely we let him walk for nothing.

Is it me or are you evolving on this position? I think it speaks well of JK, and you, that his value is rising, if only due to lack of better options. If it isn't clear, I agree wholeheartedly.

If JK stays, it's really on Kerr to find a way to make it work with Steph, Draymond, Jimmy, and Kuminga, that's why he's making $17.5M per year and the highest-paid coach in the league. If I'm Lacob, I'm not accepting this "he doesn't fit what we're doing" and "it's just a matchup thing" and "I just went with my gut" crap anymore. Kuminga was very clearly the best Warriors player in the Minnesota series, and was playing great before he got injured earlier. Make it work. That doesn't mean Kuminga doesn't have to hold up his end of the bargain, but there's got to be ways to use Kuminga while not completely neutralizing the Steph-centric system.

I heard Kerr asked about Kuminga the other day and found it hilarious he was talking about how the best way to use him was in pick and roll action with Steph...but the Warriors run among the fewest pick and roll plays in the league. Like he literally pointed out one (but not the only) way to maximize that talent, but won't actually develop it and use it.

For Kuminga's part, he needs to be looking for lanes to cut at all times a lot like Jimmy and GP2 do. He's got the speed to exploit those creases in the defense but he's not going to find them by standing stationary in the corner -- that ends up with him being tempted to chuck 3s at the end of the shot clock, which is minimizing his strengths. Maybe someday he has a reliable 3 ball but right now it's not.

Kuminga isn't good enough to disrupt the system or move the system away from Curry. The coach is supposed to make the team play as good as they can, not force square pegs in round holes just because the FO/ownership has decided to pay players who doesn't working in the coach's system.

[Onus]

I agree. And anywhere in that 18-22 range lets us use the full TPMLE while staying under the 2nd apron.

Now the arguments for letting him walk or a S&T would be:

S&T - Sure, if we can get someone back thats worthy, this is the preferred route. I’m just not confident we get someone back thats better even in the short term than what Kuminga could provide.

Let him walk - This would put us in the mix for using the full MLE…. which actually is a good plan if we think we can nail one of the top MLE targets… I just dont see someone like NAW picking us… maybe i’d do this for Davion Mitchell, but even then Miami probably matches. Other options might be Yabusele, Beasley, Bruce Brown, etc.

The only way JK's salary would become an issue is if the Nets give him something over 35M. But in lieu of that he's most likely coming back. I don't think we're getting a player for the full mle that would be better than JK, so unlikely we let him walk for nothing.

Is it me or are you evolving on this position? I think it speaks well of JK, and you, that his value is rising, if only due to lack of better options. If it isn't clear, I agree wholeheartedly.

I've never been high on this free agent class. I would still trade him for 2 1sts from brooklyn.

[Onus]

With Kuminga being a RFA he will talk to other teams, if someone (or multiple teams) say they'd give him 30+ mil in a sign and trade, it's going to be a really bad situation if GS doesn't S&T him and then low balls him with a much loser offer because they can (especially after offering 30 mil a year and then him being one of the only real scorers after Curry got hurt). That will be a really bad situation until he's traded, even if he were to start, his money has been messed with.

If some team say they would give him 30+ then he would just sign the contract and then we can match if we want to. Which we will. There's no way we're messing with his money which is the whole point of RFA.

[AirP.]

The only way JK's salary would become an issue is if the Nets give him something over 35M. But in lieu of that he's most likely coming back. I don't think we're getting a player for the full mle that would be better than JK, so unlikely we let him walk for nothing.

Is it me or are you evolving on this position? I think it speaks well of JK, and you, that his value is rising, if only due to lack of better options. If it isn't clear, I agree wholeheartedly.

I've never been high on this free agent class. I would still trade him for 2 1sts from Brooklyn.

Who'd give up 1 1st round pick to S&T for Kuminga? He's no longer on a rookie contract and isn't proven yet whoever S&Ts for him will have to meet Kuminga's salary demands.

BTW, if GS extends Kuminga, how much does that cost GS with the tax for his contract thrown in?

[Onus]

The only way JK's salary would become an issue is if the Nets give him something over 35M. But in lieu of that he's most likely coming back. I don't think we're getting a player for the full mle that would be better than JK, so unlikely we let him walk for nothing.

Is it me or are you evolving on this position? I think it speaks well of JK, and you, that his value is rising, if only due to lack of better options. If it isn't clear, I agree wholeheartedly.

If JK stays, it's really on Kerr to find a way to make it work with Steph, Draymond, Jimmy, and Kuminga, that's why he's making $17.5M per year and the highest-paid coach in the league. If I'm Lacob, I'm not accepting this "he doesn't fit what we're doing" and "it's just a matchup thing" and "I just went with my gut" crap anymore. Kuminga was very clearly the best Warriors player in the Minnesota series (certainly the most productive on the offensive end and played some really good man defense as well), and was playing great before he got injured earlier. Make it work. That doesn't mean Kuminga doesn't have to hold up his end of the bargain, but there's got to be ways to use Kuminga while not completely neutralizing the Steph-centric system.

I heard Kerr asked about Kuminga the other day and found it hilarious he was talking about how the best way to use him was in pick and roll action with Steph...but the Warriors run among the fewest pick and roll plays in the league. Like he literally pointed out one (but not the only) way to maximize that talent, but won't actually develop it and use it.

For Kuminga's part, he needs to be looking for lanes to cut at all times a lot like Jimmy and GP2 do. He's got the speed to exploit those creases in the defense but he's not going to find them by standing stationary in the corner -- that ends up with him being tempted to chuck 3s at the end of the shot clock, which is minimizing his strengths. Maybe someday he has a reliable 3 ball but right now it's not.

I mean Kerr did find a role for JK to thrive. JK thrived and then he got hurt and we got Jimmy and the system changed because of Jimmy.

Kerr has already said if JK is on the team next year he was going to run out JK, Jimmy, Dray lineups to start the year and experiment with them. If we didn't need to win every single game down the stretch to try to avoid the play in (which we failed) we could've experimented more once JK back. But since the goal was to avoid the play in, they decided to not experiment too much since each win was important.

[vvoland]

The only way JK's salary would become an issue is if the Nets give him something over 35M. But in lieu of that he's most likely coming back. I don't think we're getting a player for the full mle that would be better than JK, so unlikely we let him walk for nothing.

Is it me or are you evolving on this position? I think it speaks well of JK, and you, that his value is rising, if only due to lack of better options. If it isn't clear, I agree wholeheartedly.

I've never been high on this free agent class. I would still trade him for 2 1sts from brooklyn.

ouch.

I guess we're back to square 1

[vvoland]

Is it me or are you evolving on this position? I think it speaks well of JK, and you, that his value is rising, if only due to lack of better options. If it isn't clear, I agree wholeheartedly.

If JK stays, it's really on Kerr to find a way to make it work with Steph, Draymond, Jimmy, and Kuminga, that's why he's making $17.5M per year and the highest-paid coach in the league. If I'm Lacob, I'm not accepting this "he doesn't fit what we're doing" and "it's just a matchup thing" and "I just went with my gut" crap anymore. Kuminga was very clearly the best Warriors player in the Minnesota series (certainly the most productive on the offensive end and played some really good man defense as well), and was playing great before he got injured earlier. Make it work. That doesn't mean Kuminga doesn't have to hold up his end of the bargain, but there's got to be ways to use Kuminga while not completely neutralizing the Steph-centric system.

I heard Kerr asked about Kuminga the other day and found it hilarious he was talking about how the best way to use him was in pick and roll action with Steph...but the Warriors run among the fewest pick and roll plays in the league. Like he literally pointed out one (but not the only) way to maximize that talent, but won't actually develop it and use it.

For Kuminga's part, he needs to be looking for lanes to cut at all times a lot like Jimmy and GP2 do. He's got the speed to exploit those creases in the defense but he's not going to find them by standing stationary in the corner -- that ends up with him being tempted to chuck 3s at the end of the shot clock, which is minimizing his strengths. Maybe someday he has a reliable 3 ball but right now it's not.

I mean Kerr did find a role for JK to thrive. JK thrived and then he got hurt and we got Jimmy and the system changed because of Jimmy.

Kerr has already said if JK is on the team next year he was going to run out JK, Jimmy, Dray lineups to start the year and experiment with them. If we didn't need to win every single game down the stretch to try to avoid the play in (which we failed) we could've experimented more once JK back. But since the goal was to avoid the play in, they decided to not experiment too much since each win was important.

It's looking more and more like you were right - they should have punted on the sprint to the 6th seed, rested the vets, played jimmy, jk, steph, dray in limited minutes to try and find chemistry.

You were probably right as soon as they lost to the clipps but, in hindsight, it's even more glaring. I guess the only real issue could have been playing Memphis on the road but I don't think the Grizz would have won regardless of where it was being played.

[bay2hk]

With Kuminga being a RFA he will talk to other teams, if someone (or multiple teams) say they'd give him 30+ mil in a sign and trade, it's going to be a really bad situation if GS doesn't S&T him and then low balls him with a much loser offer because they can (especially after offering 30 mil a year and then him being one of the only real scorers after Curry got hurt). That will be a really bad situation until he's traded, even if he were to start, his money has been messed with.

Sure, wizards can send us their 6th pick for Kuminga. Otherwise, why would Warriors help another team get better if we don’t get anything of value back.

[Onus]

Is it me or are you evolving on this position? I think it speaks well of JK, and you, that his value is rising, if only due to lack of better options. If it isn't clear, I agree wholeheartedly.

I've never been high on this free agent class. I would still trade him for 2 1sts from Brooklyn.

Who'd give up 1 1st round pick to S&T for Kuminga? He's no longer on a rookie contract and isn't proven yet whoever S&Ts for him will have to meet Kuminga's salary demands.

BTW, if GS extends Kuminga, how much does that cost GS with the tax for his contract thrown in?

IDK more wishful thinking on my part. Late 1sts especially 26+27 aren't very valuable. These are essentially unestablished role players. Most of these prospects in that range are 20-23 and JK is only 22 and is a known commodity capable of avg 25 ppg against a very good defensive team in minnesota in the playoffs. that has to have some type of value. It's not like the 1sts I'm asking for could be lottery picks.

Edit* wanted to add that doing a s&t with BKN would allow them to get jk at a reasonable contract since they would only have to compete with det who has 26m available.

[AirP.]

With Kuminga being a RFA he will talk to other teams, if someone (or multiple teams) say they'd give him 30+ mil in a sign and trade, it's going to be a really bad situation if GS doesn't S&T him and then low balls him with a much loser offer because they can (especially after offering 30 mil a year and then him being one of the only real scorers after Curry got hurt). That will be a really bad situation until he's traded, even if he were to start, his money has been messed with.

Sure, wizards can send us their 6th pick for Kuminga. Otherwise, why would Warriors help another team get better if we don’t get anything of value back.

The issue, whoever trades for this 22 year old player are instantly paying him a ton of money with a good amount of history saying he's a good player. It is quite possible someone who pays for that new contract of Kuminga may have a bad contract for nearly the entire contract. I just watched Miami hand D.Robinson 90 over 5 who had one great year then an average year... and he fell completely out of the rotation in his 3rd season of that contract for M.Strus who is a better player and is being paid less currently.

[AirP.]

I've never been high on this free agent class. I would still trade him for 2 1sts from Brooklyn.

Who'd give up 1 1st round pick to S&T for Kuminga? He's no longer on a rookie contract and isn't proven yet whoever S&Ts for him will have to meet Kuminga's salary demands.

BTW, if GS extends Kuminga, how much does that cost GS with the tax for his contract thrown in?

IDK more wishful thinking on my part. Late 1sts especially 26+27 aren't very valuable. These are essentially unestablished role players. Most of these prospects in that range are 20-23 and JK is only 22 and is a known commodity capable of avg 25 ppg against a very good defensive team in minnesota in the playoffs. that has to have some type of value. It's not like the 1sts I'm asking for could be lottery picks.

Edit* wanted to add that doing a s&t with BKN would allow them to get jk at a reasonable contract since they would only have to compete with det who has 26m available.

Remember, to do a S&T Kuminga has to agree to it, so he'll want to get paid which means the team taking on Kuminga will be rolling the dice on a somewhat unproven player.

You say 25 ppg against a very good defensive team in Minnesota, that's also 25 ppg against a team that probably doesn't have much of a scouting report on that player to know what to take away.

I could see teams that aren't contenders (doing a rebuild or retooling) saying sure... I'll trade 1-2 solid or good players (that aren't part of our future) to roll the dice on Kuminga. I keep hearing Chicago with C.White, but if I were them, I'd be trying to get off P.Williams money or push sending out Vucevic and/or Huerter (both which could help GS).

[TB]

Only taking P Will awful contract if the 12th pick is included.

The Chicago S&T that makes sense to me is:

Kuminga (starting around 20m) and Trayce
for
Jalen Smith and Julian Phillips

That lets us use the TPMLE and 3 max vet minimum’s while staying a shade under the 1st apron.

[azwfan]

All i got in the way of S&T is to WAS for Smart and our pick returned. But thar was before I heard BYC was applicable so think Smart makes too much.

In other news, which holds more value Warriors pick this year (#41) or our 2020 pick owed to washington (#21-50). Seems like these should be fairly similar value in a vacuum seeing as how the 2020 pick at best is the #21 pick and is 5 yrs in the future (unlikely Washington not GSW GM will still have their job by that time).

[MintFresh]

Which teams actually want Kuminga lmao

[bay2hk]

All i got in the way of S&T is to WAS for Smart and our pick returned. But thar was before I heard BYC was applicable so think Smart makes too much.

In other news, which holds more value Warriors pick this year (#41) or our 2020 pick owed to washington (#21-50). Seems like these should be fairly similar value in a vacuum seeing as how the 2020 pick at best is the #21 pick and is 5 yrs in the future (unlikely Washington not GSW GM will still have their job by that time).

I think this trade is still doable if we throw in a player (e.g. Hield) with Kuminga for Smart, and Kuminga signs with starting first year salary at $22m - $23m.

[vvoland]

The only way JK's salary would become an issue is if the Nets give him something over 35M. But in lieu of that he's most likely coming back. I don't think we're getting a player for the full mle that would be better than JK, so unlikely we let him walk for nothing.

Is it me or are you evolving on this position? I think it speaks well of JK, and you, that his value is rising, if only due to lack of better options. If it isn't clear, I agree wholeheartedly.

I've never been high on this free agent class. I would still trade him for 2 1sts from brooklyn.

I know that no one should ever do what the suns have done but if you're that interested in two late firsts, why not trade an unprotected future 1st for 2/3 late firsts this year?

[DonaldSanders]

Who'd give up 1 1st round pick to S&T for Kuminga? He's no longer on a rookie contract and isn't proven yet whoever S&Ts for him will have to meet Kuminga's salary demands.

You're right, nobody is giving up picks for Kuminga. He's a maybe at this point, looks more like a good stats bad team guy. He's never been an integral part of winning yet. Sure he's young, but other teams only pay heavily if they see a positive trend. Even if you are high on JK from here on out you have to see that reality.

I'd actually be more likely to expect us to send out our 2026 1st + Kuminga to get a solid vet, like a Cam Johnson type player.

[Onus]

Who'd give up 1 1st round pick to S&T for Kuminga? He's no longer on a rookie contract and isn't proven yet whoever S&Ts for him will have to meet Kuminga's salary demands.

BTW, if GS extends Kuminga, how much does that cost GS with the tax for his contract thrown in?

IDK more wishful thinking on my part. Late 1sts especially 26+27 aren't very valuable. These are essentially unestablished role players. Most of these prospects in that range are 20-23 and JK is only 22 and is a known commodity capable of avg 25 ppg against a very good defensive team in minnesota in the playoffs. that has to have some type of value. It's not like the 1sts I'm asking for could be lottery picks.

Edit* wanted to add that doing a s&t with BKN would allow them to get jk at a reasonable contract since they would only have to compete with det who has 26m available.

Remember, to do a S&T Kuminga has to agree to it, so he'll want to get paid which means the team taking on Kuminga will be rolling the dice on a somewhat unproven player.

You say 25 ppg against a very good defensive team in Minnesota, that's also 25 ppg against a team that probably doesn't have much of a scouting report on that player to know what to take away.

I could see teams that aren't contenders (doing a rebuild or retooling) saying sure... I'll trade 1-2 solid or good players (that aren't part of our future) to roll the dice on Kuminga. I keep hearing Chicago with C.White, but if I were them, I'd be trying to get off P.Williams money or push sending out Vucevic and/or Huerter (both which could help GS).

Brooklyn is the only team that can sign JK outright every other team would need our help. If we're trading to BKN there is no other option for JK to get a contract. At that point if another team wants him it becomes a bidding war which is even better for us.

[Onus]

Which teams actually want Kuminga lmao

apparently BKN, CHI, and MIA are interested according to Brett Seigel

[Onus]

Is it me or are you evolving on this position? I think it speaks well of JK, and you, that his value is rising, if only due to lack of better options. If it isn't clear, I agree wholeheartedly.

I've never been high on this free agent class. I would still trade him for 2 1sts from brooklyn.

I know that no one should ever do what the suns have done but if you're that interested in two late firsts, why not trade an unprotected future 1st for 2/3 late firsts this year?

I would trade our '26 pick for 19+26, if my guys are there. But that most likely means we won't be trading anything else of value since picks after 26 get dicey on if Steph is still on the team.