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2020 Draft Thread, Part 2

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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#1021 » by Onus » Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:28 pm

Mylie10 wrote:
TB wrote:I see Deni impact along the lines of:

Worst Case - Osman / Casspi
Likely - Somewhere between Saric and Hayward
Best Case - Bigger Hayward / Sean Elliot

I think with what is supposed to be a great work ethic, he can get to that "Bigger Hayward" impact, which would be a really good player and a great use of the #2.


6’9” wingspan.....I’m out!
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They say he has a +1” ws and he’s a legit 6’9” meaning his ws is 6’10”. His standing reach is reported to be 8’10”. This kid has legit pf size and can guard 1-5.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#1022 » by whatisacenter » Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:36 pm

his release looks a little funky to me but around the 3:00 mark he starts shooting threes and doesn't miss a shot :wink:
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#1023 » by Onus » Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:36 pm

UcanUwill wrote:
TB wrote:I see Deni impact along the lines of:

Worst Case - Osman / Casspi
Likely - Somewhere between Saric and Hayward
Best Case - Bigger Hayward / Sean Elliot

I think with what is supposed to be a great work ethic, he can get to that "Bigger Hayward" impact, which would be a really good player and a great use of the #2.


I think Hayward is best case not likely, Likely has to be worse than Hayward, I would rather say likely is Evan Turner 2.0.

I mean Saric was much better Euro player than Deni, Deni hasnt proven a ton at all so slow down saying he is likely to be good as NBA all star caliber player...

Wasn’t Turner the 2nd pick as well? An Evan Turner type pick would be pretty valuable for us as he’d be able to replace iguodala’s role really well. Except Avdija is 3” taller.

I do think best case scenario he can be a Hayward type player best case. Worst case though he could be hezonja. But I think his defensive versatility will translate so he’ll at worst be more serviceable than hezonja.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#1024 » by Scoots1994 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:42 pm

Mylie10 wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:
DevinVassell wrote:That giff made me laugh for some reason. Just the dumbfounded surprise on his face. I can only guess what kind of statement it is in reaction to.

The world we live in.


Unfortunately the world we live in gives us a choice between two losers and we all know at least one of them is going to win anyway.


You’re so right. Both losers, Ball and Edwards...no choice


Them too
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#1025 » by whatisacenter » Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:43 pm

Onus wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:
TB wrote:I see Deni impact along the lines of:

Worst Case - Osman / Casspi
Likely - Somewhere between Saric and Hayward
Best Case - Bigger Hayward / Sean Elliot

I think with what is supposed to be a great work ethic, he can get to that "Bigger Hayward" impact, which would be a really good player and a great use of the #2.


I think Hayward is best case not likely, Likely has to be worse than Hayward, I would rather say likely is Evan Turner 2.0.

I mean Saric was much better Euro player than Deni, Deni hasnt proven a ton at all so slow down saying he is likely to be good as NBA all star caliber player...

Wasn’t Turner the 2nd pick as well? An Evan Turner type pick would be pretty valuable for us as he’d be able to replace iguodala’s role really well. Except Avdija is 3” taller.

I do think best case scenario he can be a Hayward type player best case. Worst case though he could be hezonja. But I think his defensive versatility will translate so he’ll at worst be more serviceable than hezonja.


If the Warriors are getting an Evan Turner type rookie at #2 then I want no part of the draft and would much prefer a trade for a vet who can help now.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#1026 » by Onus » Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:52 pm

whatisacenter wrote:
Onus wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:
I think Hayward is best case not likely, Likely has to be worse than Hayward, I would rather say likely is Evan Turner 2.0.

I mean Saric was much better Euro player than Deni, Deni hasnt proven a ton at all so slow down saying he is likely to be good as NBA all star caliber player...

Wasn’t Turner the 2nd pick as well? An Evan Turner type pick would be pretty valuable for us as he’d be able to replace iguodala’s role really well. Except Avdija is 3” taller.

I do think best case scenario he can be a Hayward type player best case. Worst case though he could be hezonja. But I think his defensive versatility will translate so he’ll at worst be more serviceable than hezonja.


If the Warriors are getting an Evan Turner type rookie at #2 then I want no part of the draft and would much prefer a trade for a vet who can help now.

If Avdija can improve his handling and be a more consistent shooter he has all star potential. But he’s proven he can carve out a role on a winning club at age 19. His role was to be a spacer and defend. He wasn’t a great spacer in euro league 27% but he did end up becoming their go to defender. Being a stopper and playing solid basketball on both ends for a 19 yr old on a winning basketball team is not bad. When they let him do more in the much weaker ibsl he was able to do that and increase his output tremendously.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#1027 » by ShayDee » Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:24 pm

https://theathletic.com/2156363/2020/10/23/thompson-warriors-saw-anthony-edwards-james-wiseman-top-of-draft-board-set/?source=twittered

The Warriors, on their barnstorming tour for draft prospects, have been to Atlanta and Miami, window shopping for the No. 2 pick. Sources said it’s a small traveling party: Joe Lacob, Bob Myers, Steve Kerr and director of sports medicine and performance Rick Celebrini. In Atlanta, they watched the workout of Deni Avdija, who I highly doubt they take that high in the draft. But they did see something on this road trip, sources said, that would make them just fine with making a selection at No. 2. Two somethings actually.

Anthony Edwards. James Wiseman.

I put them in alphabetical order, so don’t get ahead of yourself. Word out of the workouts is that both of them were “beasts.”

Wiseman is as big and skilled as advertised. They also liked him when they had their conversation/interview or whatever it was.

Edwards’ exceptional athleticism jumped out in person. He seemed to really impress the Warriors with his freakishness. He must have done something like this.

;feature=emb_title


For a team open about the need for more size and athleticism, it sounds as if they’d be fine with either player, depending on what Minnesota does ahead of them.

But there is still one more must-see player out there. One player who piques the Warriors’ interest — and rightfully so, never mind the narratives of the haters out there — because of his size and skill. That player is LaMelo Ball.

If I had to handicap it, the Warriors’ choice with the No. 2 pick will come down to three players: Ball, Edwards, Wiseman. See, I did the alphabetical thing again so you can’t say I ranked them. Of course, trading the pick is still on the table. It’s probably their preferred option. But 26 days out from the draft, they’ve crossed an important bridge. They’ve gotten to see the top talents up close. They will probably see more, especially to be ready for a trade-down scenario. That’s why I’d guess they’re getting a good look at Avdija. But there is a sense that if they have to use the pick, they’ve got a viable draft board and a couple of guys they might actually want.

It could all just be draft-day posturing, too.

Something to think about: It does say something that Edwards and Wiseman have worked out in front of the Warriors and there is no such word of those players working out for Minnesota. Presumably, it’s coming. But wouldn’t both of those guys prefer to go No. 1? If so, wouldn’t they prioritize getting in front of the Timberwolves first? And because we’ve been down this road before, with the Warriors directly behind Minnesota in the lottery, would the Timberwolves draft a player they didn’t get to see up close during the draft process?

If there isn’t a good trade on the table, one of those three guys will be on the board for the Warriors. How they rank on the Warriors’ draft board is another story.

First, it’s about readiness and star potential. The Warriors can’t go full project. They need somebody who can contribute now while they have a championship window with Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson and Draymond Green. But they also need a player who can grow into an anchoring core piece down the road, if not an All-Star. They need somebody who can help the Big Three and also supplant them in the team’s hierarchy eventually. At least be good enough to maximize the back end of their primes.

Obviously, if they could trade for such a player, a transitional talent who can do both — who is a veteran — that would be most ideal. They’d at least know what they are getting. But failing that, if they go with the pick, the Warriors need to at least attempt to land a player who can be more than a role player at some point. You don’t use the No. 2 pick on a player you think might be a good minutes-eater off the bench.

The interesting thing to ponder is: How much did Edwards impress the Warriors? If Ball goes No. 1, as The Athletic mock draft currently has him, who do the Warriors take then?

Edwards seems to be less of a fit than the other two, at least for the immediate future. He’s 6-foot-5 by most accounts. But the NBA’s Draft 2020 bio has him at 6-3; is that a typo or a more accurate measure? His weight ranges from 225 to 235 pounds, the latter is what the NBA lists. ESPN has him at 6-3, 225. He’s drawn comparisons to Dwyane Wade and Donovan Mitchell because of his athleticism and knack for scoring. But if he’s closer to their height, that’s a bit concerning for a team looking to add size. Also, they have Curry, Thompson and Andrew Wiggins who will gobble up most of the perimeter minutes.

How would they use Edwards in the interim? A scorer off the bench? Not sure he is refined enough offensively to walk into the league get buckets off the bench. That’s not so easy to do.

Would they start him as a third guard with Wiggins and Green as the two bigs? That’s just not how Kerr rolls. And they want to get bigger, remember?

Edwards, however, would instantly ratchet up their athleticism and he could end up their starting shooting guard one day if he proves to be as natural of a scorer as he seems. Give him time to work on his 3-ball (29.4 percent in college at Georgia) — oh yeah, he shot it really well in front of the Warriors — and he could be the leading scorer of the future. Possible.

But how will that shot translate? Will he stretch his imagination offensively from the high-volume, inefficient scoring model and learn the Warriors’ way of movement, cutting and passing? How will he handle coming to a team that only needs him to be a role player at first?

The fact that Edwards was able to impress the Warriors with his athleticism even though everyone knows he’s athletic is probably a hint at how Edwards has been grinding. That does speak to his discipline and work ethic.



Wiseman is much more of an obvious fit.

The NBA’s draft website lists him as 7-1, 247 pounds, which fits in the range of where most seem to have his measurements. If we know anything about Kerr, it’s that his preference is to have a center on the floor. He will go small, but he likes to save the card. And since the small-ball center who makes it work is 30 years old, Kerr really is not going to want to ride a small lineup hard.

Also, as we talked about on the latest episode of the “Warriors Plus-Minus” podcast, the Warriors had to have watched what went on in the NBA bubble and realized they need more size. The two most dominant teams in the Western Conference were the Lakers with Anthony Davis and Denver with Nikola Jokić. Even the Clippers’ 7-footer Ivica Zubac can feast on small teams. The Warriors need to be able to get big.

The ideal has always been a big who can also play on the perimeter. It’s why Anthony Davis is such a matchup nightmare (even though he doesn’t want to play center), because he can protect the rim, cover guards on the perimeter when a switch happens and shoot the ball from deep. He’s a power forward who can do some center things. That’s what Green becomes for the Warriors.

Wiseman, if you look at him through the most idealistic glasses, has some of the tools to allow that. Not sure how that shot will look, but he should be able to protect the rim with his size. And the evident athleticism from his brief collegiate stint at Memphis and in other settings suggests he should not be a fish out of water if he gets switched on a pick-and-roll, so long as he learns techniques and the game plan and wants to be great defensively. And he can be what the Warriors need now: a rim-runner, a screen-setter, a shot-blocker, a lob-catcher, a big who runs the floor. Those things won’t take much.

His combination of size, skill and athleticism seems to make it a high-percentage bet he is a functional NBA center if he is coachable.

But … is he coachable? Does he have a motor? Will the skill that looks good on workout videos look as good against live NBA defense? With his lack of experience in actual games, how will he handle the read-and-react heavy system of the Warriors?

We’ll get to Ball eventually. I know a couple of people in the organization think he is super talented. But let’s wait on word from his workout.

The unique thing about this trio is that only one of them is possibly a plus on defense initially, and it’s the 7-1 guy. Kerr really has a hard time swallowing defensive liabilities on the court. Edwards’ defensive issues are heightened if he really is only 6-3. And Ball is 6-7, 190 pounds, per the NBA’s measurements, and has the frame and instincts to be a good defender. I can see the Warriors convincing themselves they can turn him into a good defender.

Or maybe, the star potential they bring limits the defensive concerns. If that’s the case, I’d probably add Dayton power forward Obi Toppin to the list of possibles. His defense is an issue, but he’s probably the most ready to produce offensively for the Warriors. Because he is 22, that might scare off the upside police. He definitely gives off maxed-out-in-college vibes. But that’s less often true with skill-based players. Skill has a way of growing when around better players. Some of these older players defy expectations by improving once they get in the league even if they got overlooked because they were older. Pascal Siakam comes to mind.

Toppin doesn’t have the type of jump-off-the-page upside as the three aforementioned. And he doesn’t exactly address the need for size. But if he grows into a player, there will be no shortage of talking heads saying “it’s because he spent three years in college!”

We’ll be talking more about this later.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#1028 » by ShayDee » Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:30 pm

ShayDee wrote:Some things that might happen on draft day. Either
1. Timberwolves Pick Ball and trade him to a team, or they keep him to trade later this season or next
2. Timberwolves pick Wiseman for the same reasons as Ball
3. If no trade is pre planned and they do not like Trade down offers, they pick either Toppin, Deni, Ball(To keep)
4. Warriors will Take Ball if he is there to facilitate a preplanned trade regardless of who is on the board
5 If Ball is picked 1. Warriors will pick between Wiseman and Deni to keep or facilitate a trade(for trade down or out)

Edwards is not going top 2 this draft. I'm 95% certain The only way now he goes in top 2 is if something happened with some prospects medicals or He impresses so much in workouts/interviews. As it stand right now I doubt Warriors/Wolves like him as a prospect


Still most likely options that will happen. GS might be hyping Deni up to not disappoint fans when they pick him, like when the Kings did with Bagley and they skipped Luka. Vlad e was seriously hyping Bagley before the draft, saying all sorts of things like he can play SF, better fit next to fox, the team like Bagley better etc. Instead of picking the BPA, look how that turned out.

I still believe Wiseman is the BPA in this draft, but like I said situation matters for a prospect, I do not believe Warriors will do Wiseman justice in his development even if I know he is more NBA ready than advertised, the coaching would just not give him a chance and minutes. So whoever gets him later good luck. It will most likely be Deni if we stay at 2
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#1029 » by Mylie10 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:49 pm

Latest report from Marcus Thompson on Warriors and young draftees.

It’s from an article on the Athletic, which is a pay site. I only have a small portion of the article.

We already know what the Warriors said about Deni, but this comment is in reference to Edwards and Wiseman.

“ <@537707709999611954> so this stood out to me from the article:

Anthony Edwards. James Wiseman.

I put them in alphabetical order, so don’t get ahead of yourself. Word out of the workouts is that both of them were “beasts.”

Wiseman is as big and skilled as advertised. They also liked him when they had their conversation/interview or whatever it was.

Edwards’ exceptional athleticism jumped out in person. He seemed to really impress the Warriors with his freakishness.”

And supposedly Edwards measured 6’3” without shoes. Not sure on Wiseman.

If anyone has the full article to read, would love that.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#1030 » by AdonalFoyle4Prez » Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:51 pm

Being on this board feels like the radical-lefts arguing with radical-rights, but in the context of basketball and evaluating talent. Very frustrating to not have others agree or see your perspective..
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#1031 » by ILOVEIT » Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:57 pm

AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:Being on this board feels like the radical-lefts arguing with radical-rights, but in the context of basketball and evaluating talent. Very frustrating to not have others agree or see your perspective..


I sooooooo agreee ;)

For me it's the way we post. Why not include what we agree on and then pivot on the difference.

Don't know why it's "if you don't like player X you are nuts" :(

Especially because none of us know crap about the players in reality. lol

What we can have stronger opinions on, IMO, is what the needs are for the Warriors etc..
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#1032 » by Onus » Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:00 pm

I do agree wiseman and Edwards are the best athletes meaning they have the most potential.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#1033 » by ShayDee » Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:02 pm

Mylie10 wrote:Latest report from Marcus Thompson on Warriors and young draftees.

It’s from an article on the Athletic, which is a pay site. I only have a small portion of the article.

We already know what the Warriors said about Deni, but this comment is in reference to Edwards and Wiseman.

“ <@537707709999611954> so this stood out to me from the article:

Anthony Edwards. James Wiseman.

I put them in alphabetical order, so don’t get ahead of yourself. Word out of the workouts is that both of them were “beasts.”

Wiseman is as big and skilled as advertised. They also liked him when they had their conversation/interview or whatever it was.

Edwards’ exceptional athleticism jumped out in person. He seemed to really impress the Warriors with his freakishness.”

And supposedly Edwards measured 6’3” without shoes. Not sure on Wiseman.

If anyone has the full article to read, would love that.


I literally posted it two post ahead of this
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#1034 » by Warriors Analyst » Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:10 pm

Onus wrote:I do agree wiseman and Edwards are the best athletes meaning they have the most potential.


I'm hesitant to believe that superior athleticism translates to having the most potential. Over the years some of the most overwhelming players drafted in the top 10 were athletic freaks who didn't have the skill level to become high level players: Barnes, Wes Johnson, Ben McLemore, Marvin Williams, Thomas Robinson, Wiggins, MKG, Mudiyay, Hezonja, WCS, Josh Jackson, etc. I will not discount the possibility that their career paths were all negatively impacted by going to losing teams where organization priorities between management and coaching staff often clash and lead to players not getting the attention they need. But my general point is that while superior athleticism certainly makes the game easier and allows a player to get away with more as they learn the nuances of the game, I'm much more inclined to bank on elite skill. For that reason, I'm more intrigued by Deni, Vassell, Naismith, and Toppin type guys in trade downs.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#1035 » by Mylie10 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:39 pm

What elite skill does Deni have?
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#1036 » by ILOVEIT » Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:47 pm

Mylie10 wrote:What elite skill does Deni have?


From what video I've seen....passing and court vision...and for a 6'9" player...possibly handles.

But like everyone else I'm just extrapolating from what I've seen...projecting.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#1037 » by HiRez » Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:40 pm

Everything in the article makes some sense. Edwards extreme athleticism, potential an an elite scorer, but a lot of risk as a rookie/sophomore. Wiseman, the full package could take years to develop, but probably a little more likely to be able to contribute some things immediately (size/rim protection/rebounding), albeit in a limited capacity. Ball, high potential but other than his passing a complete unknown. Wiseman only one likely to contribute defensively initially (or maybe ever).

In the absence of a trade-down, still looks like the choice should be Wiseman to me.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#1038 » by Onus » Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:46 pm

Warriors Analyst wrote:
Onus wrote:I do agree wiseman and Edwards are the best athletes meaning they have the most potential.


I'm hesitant to believe that superior athleticism translates to having the most potential. Over the years some of the most overwhelming players drafted in the top 10 were athletic freaks who didn't have the skill level to become high level players: Barnes, Wes Johnson, Ben McLemore, Marvin Williams, Thomas Robinson, Wiggins, MKG, Mudiyay, Hezonja, WCS, Josh Jackson, etc. I will not discount the possibility that their career paths were all negatively impacted by going to losing teams where organization priorities between management and coaching staff often clash and lead to players not getting the attention they need. But my general point is that while superior athleticism certainly makes the game easier and allows a player to get away with more as they learn the nuances of the game, I'm much more inclined to bank on elite skill. For that reason, I'm more intrigued by Deni, Vassell, Naismith, and Toppin type guys in trade downs.

I agree skill trumps athleticism. But elite athleticism + skill is the best.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#1039 » by Onus » Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:53 pm

ILOVEIT wrote:
Mylie10 wrote:What elite skill does Deni have?


From what video I've seen....passing and court vision...and for a 6'9" player...possibly handles.

But like everyone else I'm just extrapolating from what I've seen...projecting.

I’d say his elite skill is basketball iq at his age. Also size for his position. He’s going to be a huge 3 and if he can tighten up his handles he will be a huge ball handler.

It seems like a lot of the elite wings have a strength advantage; kawhi, Lebron, giannis, harden, Luka. They’re able to get in the paint lower the shoulder and move people to create space. Can Deni do it consistently will be the question. He’s shown flashes of people bouncing off of him as he gets into the paint and walling off defenders on his back as he gets by them. If he learns how to master that, that’s how he becomes a star. He has the size to do it

I will admit it’s unlikely that he does. I’m not sure he has the handles to be able to do it consistently.
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Re: 2020 Draft Thread, Part 2 

Post#1040 » by jason bourne » Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:56 pm

Mylie10 wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:
DevinVassell wrote:That giff made me laugh for some reason. Just the dumbfounded surprise on his face. I can only guess what kind of statement it is in reaction to.

The world we live in.


Unfortunately the world we live in gives us a choice between two losers and we all know at least one of them is going to win anyway.


You’re so right. Both losers, Ball and Edwards...no choice


Your statement makes me upset. Not so much because of your choices (you're entitled to your opinions), but there is usually one loser or BUST. The other two likely ends up as an All-Star or Superstar. What you want to identify is the bust first. I think in the 2020 draft, the BUST is clear. Jeez, I hope I don't have to say 2020 in hindsight is clear after the Ws pick.

BTW after hearing about the Athletic article, I hope the Ws trade for Beal, Gobert, John Collins, or even Myles Turner/TJ Warren if the rumors of their pick are true.
“The most contrarian thing of all is not to oppose the crowd but to think for yourself.” Peter Thiel

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