Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?)

[TrueFan420]

Green is a lifer. Wiggins Kuminga Poole picks for Simmons

Hard pass

[Old_Blue]

I'm curious - Just how "broken" do folks perceive Simmons to be?

[Scoots1994]

I'm curious - Just how "broken" do folks perceive Simmons to be?

I've never seen a player who runs away from being fouled as much as Simmons does recover from that mentality. And once you are afraid of being fouled your offensive game falls apart.

[kuclas]

I'm curious - Just how "broken" do folks perceive Simmons to be?

He’s definitely got some mental issues. Afraid to fail type of attitude.

People forget he did the same exactly blunder in 2018 playoffs vs Celtics critical point in game 3 with Sixers up by 1 point and 18 seconds left.

Simmons got the offensive rebound. A NORMAL NBA player would pull the ball out wait to get fouled if you are up by 1 point with the ball and 18 seconds (the nba didn’t have the 14 second shot clock reset in 2018 playoffs.

But Simmons tried a 5 foot floater put back. And missed. He didn’t want to be fouled. And Sixers lost the game due to that blunder.

But he needs a change of scenery. He’s terrific in regular season. The shot is broken. But he’s 6 foot 10 freight train in transition with above average handles for a guy his size. He does take shots in regular seasons. Not a lot. But mainly 5-8 foot shots. He doesn’t need a 3 point shot. But any respectable 10 foot shot. And we all know. He’s the next lebron James.

But he can’t. Or won’t. And that’s what’s so frustrating about Simmons. He’s a top 3 nba. Player with even a 10 foot jump shot. And he can’t even do that.

[ChuckDurn]

I'm curious - Just how "broken" do folks perceive Simmons to be?

I've never seen a player running away from being fouled as much as Simmons does recover, and once you are afraid of being fouled your offensive game falls apart.

We have seen it these parts before. Biedrins. That, and Nelson killing his confidence, did him in. At least SImmons can do a couple of other things on offense, where if Biedrins wouldn’t shoot, he didn’t have anything else.

[Scoots1994]

I'm curious - Just how "broken" do folks perceive Simmons to be?

I've never seen a player running away from being fouled as much as Simmons does recover, and once you are afraid of being fouled your offensive game falls apart.

We have seen it these parts before. Biedrins. That, and Nelson killing his confidence, did him in. At least SImmons can do a couple of other things on offense, where if Biedrins wouldn’t shoot, he didn’t have anything else.

Have you ever seen a PG like that who turned it around though? I've seen PGs who don't shoot, but AFRAID to even engage?

[ChuckDurn]

I've never seen a player running away from being fouled as much as Simmons does recover, and once you are afraid of being fouled your offensive game falls apart.

We have seen it these parts before. Biedrins. That, and Nelson killing his confidence, did him in. At least SImmons can do a couple of other things on offense, where if Biedrins wouldn’t shoot, he didn’t have anything else.

Have you ever seen a PG like that who turned it around though? I've seen PGs who don't shoot, but AFRAID to even engage?

Nope. But your post wasn’t specific to point guards.

[and1GS]

I don't want Simmons unless we are bending Philly over and giving them an extreme rodgering.

Even then, I balk at even having him here. He and Dray are a horrible fit in a team on offence. He has a really entitled personality and I'm not sure I even want him and his drama here. If we traded a major haul for him I'd be really disappointed. When I think long and hard about it, Wiggins may just be a better fit next to Steph, Dray and Klay anyway. Wiggins can score in the half court and shoot the 3.

And before we get all horny to trade our rookies they need to be signed for 30 days before they can be traded. Currently, neither is signed.

[Scoots1994]

We have seen it these parts before. Biedrins. That, and Nelson killing his confidence, did him in. At least SImmons can do a couple of other things on offense, where if Biedrins wouldn’t shoot, he didn’t have anything else.

Have you ever seen a PG like that who turned it around though? I've seen PGs who don't shoot, but AFRAID to even engage?

Nope. But your post wasn’t specific to point guards.

I know, I was just thinking Simmons' listed position is PG and that's a particularly brutal position for someone afraid to draw a foul when the game is on the line ... the guy who usually has the ball.

[Coxy]

I'm curious - Just how "broken" do folks perceive Simmons to be?

He’s definitely got some mental issues. Afraid to fail type of attitude.

People forget he did the same exactly blunder in 2018 playoffs vs Celtics critical point in game 3 with Sixers up by 1 point and 18 seconds left.

Simmons got the offensive rebound. A NORMAL NBA player would pull the ball out wait to get fouled if you are up by 1 point with the ball and 18 seconds (the nba didn’t have the 14 second shot clock reset in 2018 playoffs.

But Simmons tried a 5 foot floater put back. And missed. He didn’t want to be fouled. And Sixers lost the game due to that blunder.

But he needs a change of scenery. He’s terrific in regular season. The shot is broken. But he’s 6 foot 10 freight train in transition with above average handles for a guy his size. He does take shots in regular seasons. Not a lot. But mainly 5-8 foot shots. He doesn’t need a 3 point shot. But any respectable 10 foot shot. And we all know. He’s the next lebron James.

But he can’t. Or won’t. And that’s what’s so frustrating about Simmons. He’s a top 3 nba. Player with even a 10 foot jump shot. And he can’t even do that.

I just don't want all of this to be dumped on us to try and fix. It's not like he's been in the NBA 1 or 2 seasons, he's seasoned now and I'm not giving up a major haul for a guy that may be unfixable. If Philly are willing to deal him, that is damning for me.

Not interested.

[kuclas]

I'm curious - Just how "broken" do folks perceive Simmons to be?

He’s definitely got some mental issues. Afraid to fail type of attitude.

People forget he did the same exactly blunder in 2018 playoffs vs Celtics critical point in game 3 with Sixers up by 1 point and 18 seconds left.

Simmons got the offensive rebound. A NORMAL NBA player would pull the ball out wait to get fouled if you are up by 1 point with the ball and 18 seconds (the nba didn’t have the 14 second shot clock reset in 2018 playoffs.

But Simmons tried a 5 foot floater put back. And missed. He didn’t want to be fouled. And Sixers lost the game due to that blunder.

But he needs a change of scenery. He’s terrific in regular season. The shot is broken. But he’s 6 foot 10 freight train in transition with above average handles for a guy his size. He does take shots in regular seasons. Not a lot. But mainly 5-8 foot shots. He doesn’t need a 3 point shot. But any respectable 10 foot shot. And we all know. He’s the next lebron James.

But he can’t. Or won’t. And that’s what’s so frustrating about Simmons. He’s a top 3 nba. Player with even a 10 foot jump shot. And he can’t even do that.

I just don't want all of this to be dumped on us to try and fix. It's not like he's been in the NBA 1 or 2 seasons, he's seasoned now and I'm not giving up a major haul for a guy that may be unfixable. If Philly are willing to deal him, that is damning for me.

Not interested.

That’s why the value for Simmons is incredibly hard to judge. He does so many others things besides play defense. Rebound. Set screens. Playmaker. Transition game. He does it all. Teams are more than willing to give up 2 first round picks in the future and a couple of role players to take a flyer on Simmons. Because they know if they can unlock even a 10 foot shot or something. Than they got themselves at top 3 nba player. The free throws is also an issue. He’s a 60% free throw shooter but shot 34% for playoffs. Clearly something in the brain.

But that’s the issue. He just turned 25. He’s not old. But not developmentally young.

The other underlying issue a lot of people don’t know is he had family issues 2/3 of the way into the season. His sister accused his brother or half brother of sexual molesting her. Just Google it. And Simmons game really took a nose dive for 10-12 games during that stretch.. He wasn’t himself. So his mental makes up is very fragile.

The 140 million remaining salary doesn’t scare GMs who want Simmons. Cause of all the things Simmons does well That’s why teams are still willing to trade for him. But they don’t want to give up their 1st or 2nd best player for him.

So that’s why he is still with Sixers. They don’t want to trade him for lesser players To make them worst. Because he does contribute a ton to regular season wins for them.

[clyde21]

how are people still talking about Simmons?

wtf is Simmons gonna do on this roster that Dray doesnt already do? jfc like some of u started watching ball yesterday or something.

[Coxy]

Teams are more than willing to give up 2 first round picks in the future and a couple of role players to take a flyer on Simmons. Because they know if they can unlock even a 10 foot shot or something. Than they got themselves at top 3 nba player.

Are they? Who are those GM's? What teams are these? How can anybody even claim to know this sort of thing?

There's a reason he hasn't been traded yet, because no GM is offering up anything like that for him. He's excellent at the things he is good at, and he is atrocious at the things he isn't good at. Add on the mental aspect, and any GM would be foolish to give into Morey's demands here.

I'm Australian, I follow Simmons closely, have done for his career because we get smashed with Simmons news constantly down here, I know who he is. That's probably why I even more so don't want him, I know how fragile and entitled he is.

[DevinVassell]

I understand taking a flyer on a player... but he gets paid 33M this year. Even if we were giving up zero assets to get him its still a MASSIVE risk.

With picks etc, it's not even close. Move on.

[azwfan]

He’s definitely got some mental issues. Afraid to fail type of attitude.

People forget he did the same exactly blunder in 2018 playoffs vs Celtics critical point in game 3 with Sixers up by 1 point and 18 seconds left.

Simmons got the offensive rebound. A NORMAL NBA player would pull the ball out wait to get fouled if you are up by 1 point with the ball and 18 seconds (the nba didn’t have the 14 second shot clock reset in 2018 playoffs.

But Simmons tried a 5 foot floater put back. And missed. He didn’t want to be fouled. And Sixers lost the game due to that blunder.

But he needs a change of scenery. He’s terrific in regular season. The shot is broken. But he’s 6 foot 10 freight train in transition with above average handles for a guy his size. He does take shots in regular seasons. Not a lot. But mainly 5-8 foot shots. He doesn’t need a 3 point shot. But any respectable 10 foot shot. And we all know. He’s the next lebron James.

But he can’t. Or won’t. And that’s what’s so frustrating about Simmons. He’s a top 3 nba. Player with even a 10 foot jump shot. And he can’t even do that.

I just don't want all of this to be dumped on us to try and fix. It's not like he's been in the NBA 1 or 2 seasons, he's seasoned now and I'm not giving up a major haul for a guy that may be unfixable. If Philly are willing to deal him, that is damning for me.

Not interested.

That’s why the value for Simmons is incredibly hard to judge. He does so many others things besides play defense. Rebound. Set screens. Playmaker. Transition game. He does it all. Teams are more than willing to give up 2 first round picks in the future and a couple of role players to take a flyer on Simmons. Because they know if they can unlock even a 10 foot shot or something. Than they got themselves at top 3 nba player. The free throws is also an issue. He’s a 60% free throw shooter but shot 34% for playoffs. Clearly something in the brain.

But that’s the issue. He just turned 25. He’s not old. But not developmentally young.

The other underlying issue a lot of people don’t know is he had family issues 2/3 of the way into the season. His sister accused his brother or half brother of sexual molesting her. Just Google it. And Simmons game really took a nose dive for 10-12 games during that stretch.. He wasn’t himself. So his mental makes up is very fragile.

The 140 million remaining salary doesn’t scare GMs who want Simmons. Cause of all the things Simmons does well That’s why teams are still willing to trade for him. But they don’t want to give up their 1st or 2nd best player for him.

So that’s why he is still with Sixers. They don’t want to trade him for lesser players To make them worst. Because he does contribute a ton to regular season wins for them.

What is the absolute minimum you, as a Philly fan, would be willing to take for him?
The players on our roster I'd be willing to give up is Wiggins + Looney for Simmons (if he waives his trade kicker). So from there, how many picks with what protections would it take for you to accept it?
I'd give up 1 protected 1st, maybe 2. I don't think I'd give up 3. DGAF about 2nds but I suspect neither do the Sixers.

[kuclas]

I just don't want all of this to be dumped on us to try and fix. It's not like he's been in the NBA 1 or 2 seasons, he's seasoned now and I'm not giving up a major haul for a guy that may be unfixable. If Philly are willing to deal him, that is damning for me.

Not interested.

That’s why the value for Simmons is incredibly hard to judge. He does so many others things besides play defense. Rebound. Set screens. Playmaker. Transition game. He does it all. Teams are more than willing to give up 2 first round picks in the future and a couple of role players to take a flyer on Simmons. Because they know if they can unlock even a 10 foot shot or something. Than they got themselves at top 3 nba player. The free throws is also an issue. He’s a 60% free throw shooter but shot 34% for playoffs. Clearly something in the brain.

But that’s the issue. He just turned 25. He’s not old. But not developmentally young.

The other underlying issue a lot of people don’t know is he had family issues 2/3 of the way into the season. His sister accused his brother or half brother of sexual molesting her. Just Google it. And Simmons game really took a nose dive for 10-12 games during that stretch.. He wasn’t himself. So his mental makes up is very fragile.

The 140 million remaining salary doesn’t scare GMs who want Simmons. Cause of all the things Simmons does well That’s why teams are still willing to trade for him. But they don’t want to give up their 1st or 2nd best player for him.

So that’s why he is still with Sixers. They don’t want to trade him for lesser players To make them worst. Because he does contribute a ton to regular season wins for them.

What is the absolute minimum you, as a Philly fan, would be willing to take for him?
The players on our roster I'd be willing to give up is Wiggins + Looney for Simmons (if he waives his trade kicker). So from there, how many picks with what protections would it take for you to accept it?
I'd give up 1 protected 1st, maybe 2. I don't think I'd give up 3. DGAF about 2nds but I suspect neither do the Sixers.

Problem is Sixers don’t really need anything golden state has to offer. Wiggins is redundant with Tobias Harris. Harris is just the better player at this point.

Sixers need an iso second scorer down the stretch. Wiggins is more of a 3rd wheel. Harris is a better third wheel.

They don’t need golden state draft picks either or wiseman.

So that’s why simmons trade to golden state makes no sense.

At the end of the day. Sixers will be the 2 or 3 seed in the east barring any major injury to Embiid. Their problem has been in the second round of playoffs and Simmons is a huge liability in the second round.

Honestly the coaches are too knuckleheads to just play Simmons for 30 min in playoffs. Than bench him for the the fourth quarter except for defensive sequences. That is what they really need to do. Their bench guards shake Milton and Maxey won them games 2/6 vs hawks in the fourth quarter with Simmons a non factor.

But the coaches keep insisting on playing Simmons on offense down the stretch. Embiid doesn’t need much. He just needs someone to at least willing to shoot the ball from outside and dribble in the half court. Just the threat of that is all he needs. But all Simmons does in the playoffs is hand the ball off to Embiid or someone else in half court. Utterly useless for a point guard.

That’s why they tried to go after fox of the kings. But the kings countered with players Sixers don’t need either (bagley Hield Barnes and picks).

In the nba if you don’t have wings or guards who can create iso in the playoffs. You are dead. That’s why Jokic could only do so much. Get to the second round and lose without Murray. Denver had no guards or wings who could handle the ball.

The elite big man cannot win titles himself. Yes. That includes Giannis. Holiday would big upgrade over Bledsoe. Bledsoe couldn’t shoot either.

[Jester_]

That’s why the value for Simmons is incredibly hard to judge. He does so many others things besides play defense. Rebound. Set screens. Playmaker. Transition game. He does it all. Teams are more than willing to give up 2 first round picks in the future and a couple of role players to take a flyer on Simmons. Because they know if they can unlock even a 10 foot shot or something. Than they got themselves at top 3 nba player. The free throws is also an issue. He’s a 60% free throw shooter but shot 34% for playoffs. Clearly something in the brain.

But that’s the issue. He just turned 25. He’s not old. But not developmentally young.

The other underlying issue a lot of people don’t know is he had family issues 2/3 of the way into the season. His sister accused his brother or half brother of sexual molesting her. Just Google it. And Simmons game really took a nose dive for 10-12 games during that stretch.. He wasn’t himself. So his mental makes up is very fragile.

The 140 million remaining salary doesn’t scare GMs who want Simmons. Cause of all the things Simmons does well That’s why teams are still willing to trade for him. But they don’t want to give up their 1st or 2nd best player for him.

So that’s why he is still with Sixers. They don’t want to trade him for lesser players To make them worst. Because he does contribute a ton to regular season wins for them.

What is the absolute minimum you, as a Philly fan, would be willing to take for him?
The players on our roster I'd be willing to give up is Wiggins + Looney for Simmons (if he waives his trade kicker). So from there, how many picks with what protections would it take for you to accept it?
I'd give up 1 protected 1st, maybe 2. I don't think I'd give up 3. DGAF about 2nds but I suspect neither do the Sixers.

Problem is Sixers don’t really need anything golden state has to offer. Wiggins is redundant with Tobias Harris. Harris is just the better player at this point.

Sixers need an iso second scorer down the stretch. Wiggins is more of a 3rd wheel. Harris is a better third wheel.

They don’t need golden state draft picks either or wiseman.

So that’s why simmons trade to golden state makes no sense.

At the end of the day. Sixers will be the 2 or 3 seed in the east barring any major injury to Embiid. Their problem has been in the second round of playoffs and Simmons is a huge liability in the second round.

Honestly the coaches are too knuckleheads to just play Simmons for 30 min in playoffs. Than bench him for the the fourth quarter except for defensive sequences. That is what they really need to do. Their bench guards shake Milton and Maxey won them games 2/6 vs hawks in the fourth quarter with Simmons a non factor.

But the coaches keep insisting on playing Simmons on offense down the stretch. Embiid doesn’t need much. He just needs someone to at least willing to shoot the ball from outside and dribble in the half court. Just the threat of that is all he needs. But all Simmons does in the playoffs is hand the ball off to Embiid or someone else in half court. Utterly useless for a point guard.

That’s why they tried to go after fox of the kings. But the kings countered with players Sixers don’t need either (bagley Hield Barnes and picks).

In the nba if you don’t have wings or guards who can create iso in the playoffs. You are dead. That’s why Jokic could only do so much. Get to the second round and lose without Murray. Denver had no guards or wings who could handle the ball.

The elite big man cannot win titles himself. Yes. That includes Giannis. Holiday would big upgrade over Bledsoe. Bledsoe couldn’t shoot either.

I think the issue is Philly has waited until Simmons value is basically zero. I don't think there's been a team with less leverage in recent memory - it's either you sell low on some win now players or alienate your franchise cornerstone and waste another season treadmilling out of the second round. There isn't really a team in the league that's rushing to buy Simmons either.

Wiggins + a pick gives you some future assets and another 3 & D player to add around Embiid. You're not really in a position to flip Ben Simmons into what you "need" (an ISO player). Someone like Fox is a huge pipe dream considering how little leverage there is in the market right now for Philly to work with.

Probably most importantly, if Wiggins' doesn't work out, you have cap space much sooner to add a star who does.

[superunknown]

still don't get why we should trade wiggins+picks for simmons if dray is still around. they can't play together and as things stand wiggins is a better fit than him. plus wiggins' contract could get value in 1 year time as he will enter in his last year.
more in general, why should be helping the sixers with that hot potato, they are the ones in the hot seat right now, they either keep him hoping he'll show some improvements or they sell him short (right now they won't get anything better than a cj mccollum from POR or siakam from TOR. minnesota has even less to offer, maybe WAS if beal wants out and is happy with the destination).
morey is the best GM in league, isn't him? at least that's his reputation, so he'll find a solution without our help....

[Mylie10]

His value is not zero lol

However Morey with his high ball original demands are gonna have to be a bit more realistic now. Teams are not gonna give anything close to four first round picks.

So once Morey gets his head right they will be able to make a deal. But he shouldn’t have pumped up that fan base into thinking they’re getting an enormous haul.

[superunknown]

His value is not zero lol

However Morey with his high ball original demands are gonna have to be a bit more realistic now. Teams are not gonna give anything close to four first round picks.

So once Morey gets his head right they will be able to make a deal. But he shouldn’t have pumped up that fan base into thinking they’re getting an enormous haul.

nobody said his value is zero. at the same time, right now he doesn't worth much more than a cj mccollum or siakam if it's a straight up trade, which isn't that bad considering that cj and siakam are two all-stars....there were rumors MIN offered a package centered around Dlo that the sixers refused, but that gives a hint on what simmons' current value is. teams that might be interested are teams in rebuilding mode, and usually they won't give you an allstar (if they have one) plus tons of first rounders in return. maybe WAS could be interested if beal wants out, but in case it would be likely phila to send 1,2 picks not the other way.